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Turkey, A Great Democracy

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  • Turkey, A Great Democracy

    Internet censorship alive and well in Turkey; YouTube, some Google sites blocked - CSMonitor.com

    Ankara, Turkey

    Furious over Internet insults of the country's beloved founder, Turkey has gone on the offensive against Google, tightening a ban on YouTube and cutting public access to a host of Google-owned sites.

    Turkey's communications minister has accused the Internet giant of waging a battle against Turkey and dodging taxes. But the government faces widespread public anger and attacks from the political opposition for restricting freedoms.

    Even the president has spoken out against banning internet sites — using his Twitter account — after Turkey restricted access to some Google pages earlier this month.

    The controversy is a setback for Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's government, which won plaudits for carrying out democratic reforms but now stands accused of placing Turkey in the same class as countries already notorious for tight Internet controls.

    "If the government doesn't now put an end to the Internet ban that has extended to certain Google services ... Erdogan's name will be remembered along with that of Internet prohibiter Ahmadinejad," wrote Haluk Sahin, a professor of media studies and columnist for Radikal newspaper, referring to Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Iran cracked down on free use of the Internet during its disputed presidential election last summer.

    Even for Turkey, exercising control of the internet is not new.

    The country began blocking access to websites in 2007, after parliament adopted an a law against cyber crime in an effort to curb child porn, prevent the dissemination of terrorist propaganda and stamp out illegal gambling. Websites deemed to be disrespectful of Turkey's founder, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, and of religious beliefs were also outlawed.

    Under court order, Turkey's telecommunications authority banned access to YouTube, the video-sharing site, in May 2008, after users complained that some videos insulted Ataturk. Earlier this month, Turkey expanded the ban to include some Google pages that use the same Internet Protocol addresses as YouTube, to prevent users from circumventing the ban. The search giant Google Inc. is YouTube's parent company.

    Hundreds of internet users have signed an online petition denouncing the ban as an affront to "free speech and rights to access information." Signatories are calling for the resignation of the telecommunications officials and Communications Minister Binali Yildirim.

    Three information technology groups are challenging the ban in courts.

    President Abdullah Gul threw his weight behind opponents of the ban in a series of tweets June 14, saying the Internet gag was preventing Turkey from "integrating with the world." He said he has instructed officials to look into ways of overcoming the ban, including changing laws if necessary.

    "I cannot approve of Turkey being in the category of countries that bans YouTube (and) prevents access to Google," the president said.

    The opposition Republican People's Party, which under new leadership is trying to present itself as a viable alternative to Erdogan's government in elections next year, brought the issue to parliament Thursday.

    "The whole of Turkey is disturbed. Reaction, criticism, protests are increasing by the day," lawmaker Emrehan Halici said. "Unfortunately, we are again faced with censorship in our country."

    Yildirim, the minister in charge of Internet issues, responded by accusing YouTube of attacks against Turkey.

    "This site is waging a battle against the Turkish Republic but Turkey will never accept it," he said.

    He accused Google of failing to abide by Turkish laws and failing to cooperate with Turkish authorities.

    This month, Yildirim lashed out at Google saying it owed Turkey 30 million Turkish Lira (US$20 million) in taxes for revenue from advertisements placed in Turkey.

    Google said in an e-mailed statement that it is "disappointed that that this ban remains in place against a safe and lawful international service enjoyed by millions of people around the world."

    "Google complies with tax law in every country in which it operates," Google said. "We are currently in discussion with the Turkish authorities about this, and are confident we comply with Turkish law. We report profits in Turkey which are appropriate for the activities of our Turkish operations."

    Erdogan has in the past shrugged off complaints over the YouTube ban. In 2008, he told a journalist: "I know how to get around the ban," and urged everyone else to do the same. He would not however, disclose which proxy servers he used to circumvent the ban.

    Richard Howitt, a British member of the European Parliament and advocate of Turkey's European Union membership, has warned Turkey that it cannot be considered as a serious candidate as long as the Internet continues to be censored.

    Howitt said the ban puts "the country alongside Iran, North Korea and Vietnam as one of the world's worst offenders for cyber censorship."

    The 56-nation Vienna-based security and human rights organization has also called on Turkey to abolish or reform the law that allows it to block Internet sites.

    More than 6,000 sites have been banned in Turkey according to Engelli Web, a site that monitors blocked pages.

    Inaccessible sites include pornographic pages, some online betting sites, escort services and sites that provide live soccer feeds.
    Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

    Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

  • #2
    before realising the tax issue i was also angry about the bans.

    but it is true that they earn some money and dont even have a representative office in here.

    i wonder what if there is an other exemple on this issue.
    Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

    Comment


    • #3
      I'd argue Turkey really is a great democracy, in that unlike any of her neighbours this evokes outrage in Turks - it's hard to imagine citizens in other Middle Eastern countries protesting, having their President rail against it or raising this in their parliaments, or to even care, heck many would be happy at not being allowed to view 'disrespectful' material.

      It's wrong, but if any country in the Middle East will repeal such violations of civil liberties, it's Turkey, and that's a positive step for the future.

      Erdogan has never had much respect for civil liberties, but there's an answer for that too, the Turks will get to judge him, don't like rampant abuses of power, vote him out.
      Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
      - John Stuart Mill.

      Comment


      • #4
        Isn't it funny that whenever a country votes against America they suddenly become this 3 headed monster ? One day - Turkey good. Next day - Turkey terrible pseudo-Democracy.

        Freedom fries, anyone ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Irrelevant to whether they voted for America or not. Turkey's pattern has changed, and it's obvious to whoever is willing to take even a passing glance.

          Banning websites and restricting internet access is something usually reserved for countries that have less belief in civil rights, and other such sorts of "nonsense". Iran, Syria, North Korea come to mind, and now Turkey joins that austere group
          Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

          Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

          Comment


          • #6
            any comments on taxe issue?
            Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't know anything about the tax situation. This is what I do know:

              Google is an international brand name in nearly every country on earth, worth billions of dollars. Turkey recently have shown themselves as troublemakers willing to bend the truth and outright lie to get what they want.

              Out of the two, I'd take Google's word.
              Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

              Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

              Comment


              • #8
                Beaten by your own article...

                Furious over Internet insults of the country's beloved founder, Turkey has gone on the offensive against Google, tightening a ban on YouTube and cutting public access to a host of Google-owned sites.
                Three information technology groups are challenging the ban in courts.
                Even the president has spoken out against banning internet sites — using his Twitter account — after Turkey restricted access to some Google pages earlier this month.
                President Abdullah Gul threw his weight behind opponents of the ban in a series of tweets June 14, saying the Internet gag was preventing Turkey from "integrating with the world." He said he has instructed officials to look into ways of overcoming the ban, including changing laws if necessary.
                Erdogan has in the past shrugged off complaints over the YouTube ban. In 2008, he told a journalist: "I know how to get around the ban," and urged everyone else to do the same. He would not however, disclose which proxy servers he used to circumvent the ban.
                The country began blocking access to websites in 2007, after parliament adopted an a law against cyber crime in an effort to curb child porn, prevent the dissemination of terrorist propaganda and stamp out illegal gambling. Websites deemed to be disrespectful of Turkey's founder, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, and of religious beliefs were also outlawed.
                To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                Comment


                • #9
                  Looks like the Israelis are rather pissed off at the Turks.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    as an addition to what Troung underlined,


                    Google is an international brand name in nearly every country on earth, worth billions of dollars.
                    all that Turkey wanted from them was being a tax payer,

                    and that brand name MUST PAY ITS TAXES IF IT EARN MONEY FROM TURKEY...

                    but they even refuse to open an office here in Turkey.

                    i would be very pleased if someone can point the Israeli laws on this issue.

                    or what would do US laws if these "brand names" would earn those billions of dollars without paying taxes...
                    Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Why do you say that they don't pay taxes? It's one word against the other, at least that's the way I read the article.

                      "Google complies with tax law in every country in which it operates," Google said. "We are currently in discussion with the Turkish authorities about this, and are confident we comply with Turkish law. We report profits in Turkey which are appropriate for the activities of our Turkish operations."
                      The way I read it, Google is paying taxes in Turkey, but Turkey wants more money for something that they might not necessarily be entitled to.

                      Three information technology groups are challenging the ban in courts.
                      Mousavi challenged the 2009 Iranian elections in the Revolutionary Council. Didn't seem to do him much good, as I recall...

                      The country began blocking access to websites in 2007, after parliament adopted an a law against cyber crime in an effort to curb child porn, prevent the dissemination of terrorist propaganda and stamp out illegal gambling. Websites deemed to be disrespectful of Turkey's founder, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, and of religious beliefs were also outlawed.
                      Did you see that? That was Free Speech flying out the window.

                      Let's see. USA, Canada, UK, Israel, Germany and a whole crapload of other democracies have millions of webpages dedicated solely to the stupidity of their leaders. Hell, even the written press has no problem lambasting the leaders. Iran, Syria, North Korea and Venezuela don't. Looks to me like this law means Turkey wants to join the second group.

                      ================================================== =============
                      Erdogan has in the past shrugged off complaints over the YouTube ban. In 2008, he told a journalist: "I know how to get around the ban," and urged everyone else to do the same. He would not however, disclose which proxy servers he used to circumvent the ban.
                      In other words: I'm the Prime Minister, and I know how to break the law. You should do it too!

                      Even the president has spoken out against banning internet sites — using his Twitter account — after Turkey restricted access to some Google pages earlier this month.
                      And the President agrees!
                      ================================================== =============
                      ^^
                      So basically, the parliament (and/or the President/Prime Minister, I'm assuming) signed a law, and the President and the Prime Minister are breaking their own country's laws and admitting to it.
                      Last edited by bigross86; 29 Jun 10,, 16:10.
                      Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                      Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        correction:

                        Google have an office in Turkey.

                        Youtube dont.
                        Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The purpose of this thread seems to be to somehow put Turkey in the same category as Iran and North Korea. Fill the current vacancy in the axis of evil.

                          Try putting up a website insulting towards Mahatma Gandhi in India and see what happens. Guess you can put us in the group as well. Or a website denying the holocaust in Germany.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Try putting up a website insulting towards Mahatma Gandhi in India and see what happens. Guess you can put us in the group as well. Or a website denying the holocaust in Germany.
                            Bingo.

                            Weakest Turkish bashing thread ever.
                            To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Turkish censorship of YouTube is nothing new... those who were paying attention before the flotilla incident will remember when Turks could not view Erdogan's comments after he angrily left a diplomatic meeting (late 08? early 09?)

                              Those who are now drawing attention to it clearly have a political reason for doing so. Talk about terrorism in Israel... this is old news that doesn't really connect. But talk about YouTube and Google... well, now we have a travesty of censorship.

                              Originally posted by InExile View Post
                              Looks like the Israelis are rather pissed off at the Turks.
                              In America it seems that Jewish-American sentiment has now shifted to a stance of "We're done with Turkey." (I'd love to see how that works out for Israel)

                              Diplomats Israeli and Turkish have only been affirming that their relationship remains strong. Political theater is alive and well. Netenyahu's coalition, on the other hand, probably won't see it past the next elections at this rate. Snatch as much of Jerusalem while you still can, gentlemen...

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