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  • personal equipment

    i'm interested in the attitudes different armies have to soldiers using their own equipment and clothing on operations/exercise.

    within the british army it is permissable for a soldier to use his own equipment and clothing as long as a) it doesn't increase the risk of friendly fire caused by non-recognition, and b) it isn't orange.

    as an example, i use a civilian mountaineering sleeping bag and bivi bag, rucksack, boots, gaiters, camelback water bag, thermal base and mid layers, a commercial DPM gore-tex jacket, stove and sleeping mat.

    while the issued equipment has improved markedly in the last 15 years, it is still not to the standard provided by proffesional civilian companies - many of whom provide a 'green' version of their products for soldiers.

    i remember being told that the US army in particular refuses to allow soldiers to use comercially bought equipment - is this still true, and what are the attitudes of other armies to this issue?
    before criticizing someone, walk a mile in their shoes.................... then when you do criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

  • #2
    Dont think so. Sniper said that the soldiers used commercial equipements in another thread. IIRC, he himself used an after market scope for this service rifle.
    A grain of wheat eclipsed the sun of Adam !!

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    • #3
      Yep.

      We used all manner of self-bought commercially available equipment.

      It probably has as much to do with the unit commander as it does the actual army regs. If your 1st Sgt tells you you're not using a self-supplied rucksack it doesn't really matter what the regs say, God has just spoken.

      Conversely, if your chain of command doesn't object to a personally supplied piece of kit, the army regs are pretty irrelevant as long as some inspecting Full bird or General doesn't lay eyes on it. :)

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      • #4
        Does that include sights on guns and/or pistols?
        I'm wondering if you can use a different pistol than the M9, and/or put a really nice red-dot scope on your m16.

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        • #5
          That includes sights, yes.

          As for personal firearms, it used to be allowed when i was in, and as recently as ODS for sure, but according to Shek they've stopped that practice.

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          • #6
            As for the sights, nice. I'll put on a 12x40 scope on my m4 when I join the army :)
            But pistols, I just don't like the M9 for some reason; maybe I just need to shoot one.

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            • #7
              12x40 fixed power would be a poor choice for an M-4.

              A variable 1.5-4x would be a much better choice. But they issue pretty good optics nowadays(which they didn't do when i was in).

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              • #8
                I was joking; I'm not that stupid as to go get a scope intended for 500 yard+ shots for use on a carbine.
                And yes, a variable 1.5-4x would be nice.
                If I wanted, I could get myself a real ACOG 4x for my m4 airsoft gun (but that's a bit too expensive).

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by sniperdude411
                  I was joking; I'm not that stupid as to go get a scope intended for 500 yard+ shots for use on a carbine.
                  And yes, a variable 1.5-4x would be nice.
                  If I wanted, I could get myself a real ACOG 4x for my m4 airsoft gun (but that's a bit too expensive).
                  Soldiers are well equipped - I'm not aware of an 1.5-4x, but I do know that Leupold makes a 1-3x sight - we had about 1 per squad in my BDE. If you are going to go infantry, you will have either a 1x CCO or a 4x ACOG with a M4 or a 3.5x DOS with a M249 or M240B.
                  Last edited by Shek; 27 Apr 05,, 02:29.
                  "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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                  • #10
                    In the Australian Army it has pretty much everything to do with your OC. Unfortunately for me, my unit has to be the most regie thing ever. We have to have our webbing laid out exactly the same way, and we are only allowed to use issued equipment. Which means we aren't *supposed* to use gloves, beanies, kneepads, shermaghs, or any of the little things that make life out bush easier.

                    That said, most of the Sgt's don;t mind what we use as long as it helps us. I wish they'd let me put another minimi pouch on my webbing but. ATM, I have to fit a days worth of rations and whatever else I want in one little pouch.

                    *grumbles*
                    SWANSEA 'TILL I DIE! - CARN THE CROWS!

                    Rule Britannia, No Surrender

                    Staff Cadet in the Australian Army Reserve.

                    Soli Deo Gloria

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                    • #11
                      If I was in, and I could get away with it, I would want to pack a small friend away, just for kicks and giggles. (my little pop-gun)
                      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ziska
                        In the Australian Army it has pretty much everything to do with your OC. Unfortunately for me, my unit has to be the most regie thing ever. We have to have our webbing laid out exactly the same way, and we are only allowed to use issued equipment. Which means we aren't *supposed* to use gloves, beanies, kneepads, shermaghs, or any of the little things that make life out bush easier.

                        That said, most of the Sgt's don;t mind what we use as long as it helps us. I wish they'd let me put another minimi pouch on my webbing but. ATM, I have to fit a days worth of rations and whatever else I want in one little pouch.

                        *grumbles*
                        When I got to 1-508th IN (ABCT) in Italy as a LT in '97, I asked for the unit SOP on wearing the LBE, and they didn't have a specific layout for the web gear, but did have a tie-down SOP for everything, which made sense. I was told the story of how before they went into Bosnia in December 1995 following the Dayton Accords, the BDE CSM (the battalion had a BDE HQ that would act as the Army HQ for a JTF and could accept other battalions into the task organization, but in garrison, it was wierd because SETAF, a 2 star command, had a BDE HQ with a single battalion under its control) held an inspection of equipment where the location of everything was dictated. Since CNN was there filming the preparations, it became known as the "CNN inspection." The other thing that had lots of organizational resistance (read: CSM resistance) was the Camelbak. Fortunately, my battalion had a large contingent of NCOs and commanders from Ranger Regiment (25-35%), and since they were already using Camelbaks in Regiment, they were able to prevail after some time. Hopefully, I won't become senile in this regard when I become a field grade.

                        Fortunately, with the MOLLE being designed as a modular system, an explosion of different pouches to fit the MOLLE, and a shift to operations in an urban environment, restrictive standardization has for the most part disappeared. The only standardized item that I had in my company was the first aid zippered utility pouch, which had to be worn on a soldier's left side.
                        "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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                        • #13
                          Too many acronyms!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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                          • #14
                            perhaps then you should steer clear of the british army.

                            we have TLA'S - three lettered acronyms, and ETLA'S - extended three lettered acronyms, or four lettered acronyms as the should be called.

                            nice to see someone's earing a wage coming up with this rubbish....
                            before criticizing someone, walk a mile in their shoes.................... then when you do criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by shek
                              When I got to 1-508th IN (ABCT) in Italy as a LT in '97, I asked for the unit SOP on wearing the LBE, and they didn't have a specific layout for the web gear, but did have a tie-down SOP for everything, which made sense. I was told the story of how before they went into Bosnia in December 1995 following the Dayton Accords, the BDE CSM (the battalion had a BDE HQ that would act as the Army HQ for a JTF and could accept other battalions into the task organization, but in garrison, it was wierd because SETAF, a 2 star command, had a BDE HQ with a single battalion under its control) held an inspection of equipment where the location of everything was dictated. Since CNN was there filming the preparations, it became known as the "CNN inspection." The other thing that had lots of organizational resistance (read: CSM resistance) was the Camelbak. Fortunately, my battalion had a large contingent of NCOs and commanders from Ranger Regiment (25-35%), and since they were already using Camelbaks in Regiment, they were able to prevail after some time. Hopefully, I won't become senile in this regard when I become a field grade.

                              Fortunately, with the MOLLE being designed as a modular system, an explosion of different pouches to fit the MOLLE, and a shift to operations in an urban environment, restrictive standardization has for the most part disappeared. The only standardized item that I had in my company was the first aid zippered utility pouch, which had to be worn on a soldier's left side.
                              SOP - Standard Operating Procedures
                              LBE - Load Bearing Equipment
                              HQ - Headquarters
                              BDE - Brigade
                              JTF - Joint Task Force
                              CNN - Communist News Network
                              SETAF - Southern European TAsk Force
                              NCO - Non-commissioned Officer
                              MOLLE - MOdular Lightweight Load carrying Equipment
                              CSM - Command Sergeant Major
                              "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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