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  • IDF trying to boost China ties ahead of Iran sanctions vote

    IDF trying to boost China ties ahead of Iran sanctions vote
    By Amir Oren
    Tags: China, Iran nuclear


    The head of the army's Planning Directorate, Maj. Gen. Amir Eshel, will make an official visit to China next week to meet senior officials in the defense establishment there. Eshel, who is in charge of strategic planning and foreign affairs for the Israel Defense Forces, is hoping to present the Chinese with Israel's view on Iran's drive toward nuclear military capability.

    The head of Military Intelligence, Maj. Gen. Amos Yadlin, recently traveled to China and relayed to his hosts details of the Iran's progress toward nuclear arms.

    The spokesman for the Chinese military, with a rank of brigadier general, visited Israel last week as a guest of his Israeli counterpart.
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    The Israel Defense Forces considers exchanges with China to be important in softening Beijing's opposition to international sanctions against Iran - which is suspected of developing nuclear weapons.

    Last week China announced for the first time that it would consider going along with sanctions against Iran, even though its final decision will be made following talks in the UN Security Council over the substance of the resolution that will be brought for a vote.

    In conversations with Israelis in recent weeks, Chinese officers and officials have made it clear that they both oppose Iran's drive to acquire nuclear arms, but also any military action to stop the Iranian program. The Chinese also said that they oppose targeting Iran's nuclear program through sanctions.

    The Chinese opposition to sanctions was presented as a point of principle and was justified by the historic experience of the Communist regime in China, which suffered in its early decades as a result of Western sanctions.

    U.S. and Israeli efforts are focused on convincing Beijing that the best alternative to preventing a nuclear Iran and a military operation targeting it would be to agree to more severe sanctions - without actively supporting these.

    A successful effort to convince Russia, another permanent member of the Security Council, to support the sanctions would result in four of the five members voting in favor of tightening sanctions against Tehran, while Beijing would abstain and not veto the resolution.

    China sells arms, equipment and advanced technology to the Iranian military and the Revolutionary Guard, which also make their way to Hezbollah. These include an anti-shipping missile that struck the Israeli gunship Hanit in July 2006.

    A U.S. intelligence report on the proliferation of nuclear, chemical and biological weapons and missiles in 2009 was delivered to Congress last week. The unclassified version concluded that the Chinese government has implemented, during the past two years, legislation that is meant to monitor the export of banned items, but enforcement is not complete.

    "Chinese entities" continue to sell items "related to missiles" to many clients, including Iran, according to the report.

    The improvement in IDF relations with China is striking in view of the cooling of ties between the U.S. and Chinese militaries during the past two months, as a result of the announcement of the Obama administration on January 30 of plans to sell arms worth $6.4 billion to Taiwan.

    Even though the United States was careful to stress that the arms in the package are not offensive weapons - Blackhawk helicopters, Patriot air-defense missiles, and mine sweepers - the Chinese responded by freezing contacts between the militaries of the two powers.

    The exchange of visits by senior officers from Beijing and Jerusalem also reflects the rebuilding of ties that were strained following the crisis over the cancelation of an early warning aircraft deal in 2000. The sale of the Phalcon radar that ELTA was to mount on a Russian-made Ilyushin IL-76 transport aircraft was vetoed by the Americans.

    The U.S. concern then, as it is today, is that China will upgrade its military capabilities to operate far from home.

    In recent years Israel has been careful to follow American guidelines and avoid exporting sensitive military equipment to China.

    As a result of the cancelation of the deal, Israel was forced to pay China $350 million in compensation.

    Talks with Chinese officers suggest that the effects of that crisis have been minimized but not entirely forgotten: One officer said that he was surprised to witness, on arrival at Ben-Gurion International airport, a test flight of the second of the three Phalcon early-warning aircraft that are being supplied to India. A $1.1 billion deal was signed in 2004 following the failed Chinese deal. The aircraft was delivered to India late last week.

    IDF trying to boost China ties ahead of Iran sanctions vote - Haaretz - Israel News
    “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

  • #2
    Yep, their trying too as the clock continues to tick.;)

    China did pretty much nothing to stop NK for her clandestine program. Why should we rely upon her to do anything over Irans program. China has vested interest in Iran so why even bother consulting her when we already can predict the outcome of these talks. Weak and toothless sanctions that will only allow Iran to continue until someone puts their foot up Irans butt.

    *Luckily for us, Israel in the mean time dont need talks with China before they move against Irans program.

    There is a huge difference in the US selling defensive not offensive armament to Taiwan and China vetoing sanctions to preven Iran from having a nuclear weapon. This is why I wouldnt care what China wants concerning Iran.
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 02 Apr 10,, 14:40.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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    • #3
      The point is that everyone needs China's UN vote, so they can use strong language to give the Iranian a strong warming. You know those strong diplomatic languages really hurt their feelings.

      seriously, can't have a sanctions against Iran if China does not want to play ball.
      Last edited by xinhui; 02 Apr 10,, 17:04.
      “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

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      • #4
        Originally posted by xinhui View Post
        The point is that everyone needs China's UN vote, so they can use strong language to give the Iranian a strong warming. You know those strong diplomatic languages really hurt their feelings.

        seriously, can't have a sanctions against Iran if China does not want to play ball.
        *True in most of the case, but if she stands a chance of having a nuclear weapon then unilatteral action can also be used as it was by Bush against Iraq. Would hope China would agree but we also know she has far to many investments in Iran. Oil, weapons sales etc. She will do what she wants and the rest of the world will do whats deemed necessary if need be. The ball is on China's court.
        Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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        • #5
          One could argue that most of the Iranian nuke tech is Russian based
          China should and could do more but I am not a decision maker, and the debate on China international rule is still raging inside of China.

          anyways, the US government has an extremely detailed report on Iran's oil and gas sector.


          http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/Iran/Full.html

          From
          Sector Organization
          The National Iranian Gas Company (NIGC) is responsible for natural gas infrastructure, transportation, and distribution. Due to the poor investment climate, some international oil companies including Repsol, Shell, and Total have divested from Iran’s natural gas sector. In response, Iran has looked toward eastern firms, like state-owned Indian Oil Corp., China Petroleum & Chemical Corporation, and Russia’s Gazprom to take an increased role in Iranian natural gas upstream development.
          Attached Files
          Last edited by xinhui; 02 Apr 10,, 21:59.
          “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

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          • #6
            South Korea imports so much crude from Iran?!?!... If the sanctions go ahead, would we still be allowed to import crude from Iran?

            If not, will the other Middle Eastern countries agree to step up production to fill the void?

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            • #7
              I wouldnt worry. If those kind of sanctions go into place they will have already spoken with the Saudi's and all others in OPEC to make up for Irans share or get it from other sources. The Saudi's like the majority of others in the ME dont want a nuclear armed Iran. And they also dont want them starting an arms race either.
              Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

              Comment


              • #8
                BRIC And Iran

                This from yesterday's L.A. Times-

                3 Nations Skeptical On Iran Sanctions-L.A. Times April 16, 2010

                "Amorim said after Lula met with Chinese President Hu Jintao and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh that the Brazilian delegation was optimistic.

                'Our belief is that there is still the possibility' for a negotiated agreement, he said, and China and India seem to believe that 'the effectiveness of the sanctions is questionable.'"

                How possible a negotiated agreement will be via the U.N., of course, will include the net effect of Russian and/or Chinese veto power within the UNSC as well as their ability to build coalitions of dissent against sanctions.

                As to effectiveness, given the four nations prominent in this article and their energy-related ties to Iran, there can be but little doubt who the prime culprits might me WRT any sanction leaks.
                "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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                • #9
                  LOL, after stopping for 15 years, now Israel starts to "loan" money to China. what timing.

                  Israel to provide China $400 mln in loan

                  Israel to provide China $400 mln in loan
                  English.news.cn 2010-05-14 19:53:03

                  BEIJING, May 14 (Xinhua) -- Israel will offer a preferential loan of 400 million U.S. dollars to China, the Chinese Ministry of Finance (MOF) announced Friday.

                  Chinese Vice Minister of Finance Li Yong and the Israeli Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz signed the two nations' third fiscal cooperation protocol in Tel Aviv Thursday, said a statement on the MOF website.

                  The preferential loan provided by the Israeli government would fund health and sanitation projects, agricultural development, education and training, sewage treatment, energy efficiency projects, mitigation of greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions and other high-tech projects.

                  China and Israel signed the first fiscal cooperation protocol in 1995. Since then, the Israeli government has promised to provide 1 billion U.S. dollars in loans, in which 550 million dollars was in place, involving about 190 projects in 29 provinces, autonomous regions and municipalities.
                  Editor: Deng Shasha
                  “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

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                  • #10
                    Hey, if China really is up and coming to be the next superpower, it always helps to have friends, no?
                    Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                    Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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                    • #11
                      bigross86 Reply

                      "...if China really is up and coming to be the next superpower..."

                      That's not the whole story here by a country mile...

                      "...it always helps to have friends, no?"

                      You're getting warmer...;)
                      "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                      "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Far be it from me to get into a serious political discussion, mainly since I don't know much on the topic. For all my airs I'm still just a 23 year old punk.

                        I look at it from a very pragmatic point of view, world politics, diplomacy and international relations aside: The USA owes China about 19 gazillion dollars in debt. That puts China in a good place to be. Cozying up to China is a smart move. In today's numbers, $400 million is peanuts (I wish, I'd take the crumbs from those peanuts). It's not even backing a Chinese horse, it's an intent to maybe back a Chinese horse. But smart, all the same.

                        If and when Israel needs friends and the right circumstances arise, she can call upon China to return the favor
                        Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                        Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          bigross86 Reply

                          "If and when Israel needs friends and the right circumstances arise..."

                          The gesture is noteworthy even should the sum be paltry by internat'l standards. "If and when..." is just around the corner.
                          "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                          "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yup, a 400 million political message. PRC sends out 500 billions worth of loans, credits and currency swaps during the last two years. a 400 million USD deal is not a Xinhua headline news item by normal "business" standards. The Chinese government won't say no to money, not sure how much actual impact it will have in Geopolitics.
                            “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Iran's Ahmadinejad to visit China

                              By Jay Deshmukh (AFP) – 1 day ago

                              TEHRAN — President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is heading to China this week to discuss the threat of new UN sanctions over Iran's nuclear programme, as US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said world powers have the necessary votes at the Security Council.

                              Ahmadinejad will be attending Expo Shanghai 2010, but will also meet top Chinese officials to discuss Iran's nuclear programme, the threat of sanctions and a fuel swap deal for a Tehran research reactor brokered by Brazil and Turkey last month, Iranian state television reported on Monday.

                              His visit to Security Council veto-wielding permanent member China takes on particular significance as a vote on a new sanctions package looms after the United States introduced a draft resolution last month.

                              China, which has emerged in recent years as Iran's main trading partner, continues to insist on diplomacy to resolve the standoff over Tehran's nuclear programme but US officials say they have Beijing's support for the sanctions resolution.

                              Before heading to China, Ahmadinejad was due to hold a round of meetings in Istanbul where he was attending a regional security and confidence building conference on Monday.

                              He was expected to meet Prime Minister Vladimir Putin of Russia, another Security Council permanent member, media reports said.

                              He was also due to meet Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan to discuss the nuclear fuel swap deal.

                              On May 17, Turkey and Brazil brokered a deal with under which Iran agreed to ship 1,200 kilogrammes (2,640 pounds) of its low-enriched uranium (LEU) to Turkey in return for high-enriched uranium fuel for the Tehran reactor which would be supplied later by Russia and France.

                              The deal was cold-shouldered immediately by Washington which has ratcheted up diplomatic pressure for a fourth set of UN sanctions against Iran for continuing to enrich uranium in defiance of repeated Security Council ultimatums.

                              The US secretary of state said on Monday that world powers have the required number of votes to pass the sanctions resolution.

                              Clinton said she expected Iran would "pull some stunt in the next couple of days" to try to head it off.

                              "I don't think anybody should be surprised if they try to divert attention once again from the unity within the Security Council," the top US diplomat said.

                              Senior US officials have said they are forging ahead with the resolution without Brazil and Turkey, two non-permanent council members who insist that fresh sanctions would be counter-productive after the nuclear fuel deal they brokered opened up the opportunity for further diplomacy.

                              Asked if she was worried about opposition to the sanctions resolution among non-permanent members, Clinton said: "We'll wait and see what happens, but we have the votes."

                              US officials say the resolution has the support of all five council permanent members -- Britain, France, China, Russia and the United States.

                              For the resolution to pass, Washington will also need the votes of at least four of the 10 non-permanent members.

                              US officials have said they expect the resolution to be put to the vote later this month.

                              On Friday, Ahmadinejad said Iran will defend its rights even if new sanctions are imposed.

                              "We are standing in the face of enemies. To defend the rights of the nation, we will pull out any resolutions from the mouth" of the enemies, the hardliner said in a speech marking the 21st anniversary of the death of revolutionary leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.

                              Iran is already under three sets of UN sanctions for enriching uranium at its nuclear facility in the central city of Natanz.

                              Western governments suspect Iran of seeking to develop a weapons capability under cover of its civilian nuclear programme, an ambition Tehran strongly denies.

                              AFP: Iran's Ahmadinejad to visit China
                              “the misery of being exploited by capitalists is nothing compared to the misery of not being exploited at all” -- Joan Robinson

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