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gunnut
20 Mar 10,, 08:37
Guess who just got a key for closed beta? :biggrin:

Big K
20 Mar 10,, 11:43
well we expect your insights :)

Wayfarer
20 Mar 10,, 12:10
!!! I expect everyone on this forum to play the Dawn of the Dead mod/map when released on SC2.

Abso-spiffing-lutely tension evoking stuff. Usually the premise is: small squad of marines/near-future soldiers ( when I last played, max of 7-8 players) get dropped into ye ole' zombified city. Different classes from Firebat, demolitions, medics to recon are available ( think there were 8-9 classes on the warcraft one). Tons of teamwork to advance anywhere decent in the game. Really great stuff. Had me addicted for 4-5 months.

Big K
20 Mar 10,, 12:22
!!! I expect everyone on this forum to play the Dawn of the Dead mod/map when released on SC2.

Abso-spiffing-lutely tension evoking stuff. Usually the premise is: small squad of marines/near-future soldiers ( when I last played, max of 7-8 players) get dropped into ye ole' zombified city. Different classes from Firebat, demolitions, medics to recon are available ( think there were 8-9 classes on the warcraft one). Tons of teamwork to advance anywhere decent in the game. Really great stuff. Had me addicted for 4-5 months.

same with that warcraft 3 map??

Wayfarer
20 Mar 10,, 12:45
Yep! Dawn of the Dead is on wc3. But theres a better map for warcraft 3 called Night of the Dead: Aftermath.

This one is damn realistic, I mean, jumping off a cliff will give you a broken leg, fighting at close quarters with zombies gets you dead very, very fast. Both have advancement features (pvt-lcpl-cpl-sgt-ssgt-gysgt etc etc based on xp). After a while though, it gets repetitive, and compared to some of the flashier games around, its so/so.

With a shitbucket like mine, I aint complaining!

bolo121
20 Mar 10,, 12:52
Guess who just got a key for closed beta? :biggrin:

!!!! Envy..:mad::mad::tongue::biggrin:

So we expect a few cool screens plus the obligatory youtube video as soon as you can.

TTL
21 Mar 10,, 08:07
I really hope 3D graphics won't ruin gameplay as they did for some other RTSs (especially C&C).

ShawnG
21 Mar 10,, 16:51
I haven't played any MMORPG's since Asheron's Call and Asheron's Call 2: Fallen Kings.

Too bad Turbine drove that game into the ground--I thought it was teriffic.

gunnut
22 Mar 10,, 18:28
Let's see...

The Good
1. The music is fantastic
2. The game seems to run quite smooth, even with my outdated computer
3. New Battlenet has very nice interface

The Bad
1. Closed beta is multiplayer only, so I only get to play the game for 3 min before someone slaughters me
2. Limited maps with at most 2v2 settings available, for closed beta
3. The game seems like a rehashed original with minor improvements in game play and updated 3D graphics

The Ugly
1. I die in 3 minutes due to experienced players used to playing human opponents. I want to test the goddamn game, not get involved in a dick waving contest.
2. See above.

ShawnG
22 Mar 10,, 20:01
nOOb.

TTL
22 Mar 10,, 20:21
3. The game seems like a rehashed original with minor improvements in game play and updated 3D graphics

How can it be better than the original? It was simply perfect :D

Big K
22 Mar 10,, 20:37
How can it be better than the original? It was simply perfect :D

agreed. it is the best balance ever in a RTS game.

gunnut
22 Mar 10,, 23:17
How can it be better than the original? It was simply perfect :D

Absolutely agree. The original was the most perfect RTS of all time. Everything else was just a bunch of wannabes.

What I have noticed in the "improved" department is the option to trade 50 crystal for a robotic miner, which mines faster than the normal SCVs, but only lasts 90 seconds. I haven't had a chance to measure exactly how effective this trade off is. Of course the value is constantly being adjusted by Blizzard to balance game play.

There are probably other minor improvements, but I haven't had a chance to thoroughly test them yet.

gunnut
22 Mar 10,, 23:17
nOOb.

stfukthxbye:tongue:

cr9527
22 Mar 10,, 23:34
Absolutely agree. The original was the most perfect RTS of all time. Everything else was just a bunch of wannabes.



Lies! Age of Empires 2 was by far the most perfect RTS of all time :frown:

Anyhow, back to starcraft, a friend of mine, a huge fan of SC1(worships it as an immortal diety), said SC2 isn't that great.
I never bothered to play SC2 since i never enjoyed the 1st one due to the severe limitations on economic, defensive, and countering choices that AOE has.

gunnut
22 Mar 10,, 23:59
Lies! Age of Empires 2 was by far the most perfect RTS of all time :frown:

Anyhow, back to starcraft, a friend of mine, a huge fan of SC1(worships it as an immortal diety), said SC2 isn't that great.
I never bothered to play SC2 since i never enjoyed the 1st one due to the severe limitations on economic, defensive, and countering choices that AOE has.

I did enjoy playing AOE2, but much like Microsoft anything, it's overly complex.

StarCraft was perfect in its simplicity. It was so perfect that Broodwars couldn't add much to the original game play.

Big K
23 Mar 10,, 00:32
I did enjoy playing AOE2, but much like Microsoft anything, it's overly complex.

StarCraft was perfect in its simplicity. It was so perfect that Broodwars couldn't add much to the original game play.

yeah,

aoe was a tower demolishing game, you put on the cannon tower upgrade forn everyone (otherwise a smart player can be almost unbeatable, and you start spamming units....thats all...

SC1 was more like a chess, limited resources or limited pop cap forces player to find best value for money, best config.

as for zerging...well zerg gave its name to zerging...

but my favourite was terran ghosts "never know what hit" saying :biggrin::biggrin:

Skywatcher
23 Mar 10,, 01:10
I'd just like Blizzard to name a tentative release date now that the beta has started. I'm mostly buying it for the single player campaign, so I can begin a campaign of insurrectionary revolutionary terror to topple Mr. Emperor Mengsk.

cr9527
24 Mar 10,, 23:04
I did enjoy playing AOE2, but much like Microsoft anything, it's overly complex.

StarCraft was perfect in its simplicity. It was so perfect that Broodwars couldn't add much to the original game play.

I suppose if you just enjoy having mass armies slaughtering each other without bothering any other aspects of civ building, SC was perfect.

Then again, May I suggest you Rise of Legends, the battles are far more satisfying than SC, and yet it has almost no economic management what so ever :cool:

Dago
25 Mar 10,, 00:43
Guess who just got a key for closed beta? :biggrin:

gunnut your name sounds familiar, and after finding out you play video games and involved in Beta's, have you played Joint Operations Typhoon Rising? America's Army? Any of these names mean a thing to you? -AWG- (Art of War Gaming) or 1vb (1st Veterans Battalion Americas Army) or SarinVX? :))

Big K
25 Mar 10,, 09:08
I suppose if you just enjoy having mass armies slaughtering each other without bothering any other aspects of civ building, SC was perfect.

Then again, May I suggest you Rise of Legends, the battles are far more satisfying than SC, and yet it has almost no economic management what so ever :cool:

nope mate, they key word is "balance despite diversity"

SC's 3 different factions dont have mirror units, dont have similar tactics(due to non similar units), dont have the same economic management nor micro units managements

but despite all these diversities theres a uniqe balance between different factions.

and economics plays a vital role especially in early stages of the game, more like a chess game which has deadly consequences if not managed properly.

plus its single player mode is very good too.

ShawnG
25 Mar 10,, 12:30
stfukthxbye:tongue:

Hahaha, memories from Asheron's Call 2. But I think you misspelled...

stfukthxbi :))

cr9527
25 Mar 10,, 16:55
nope mate, they key word is "balance despite diversity"

SC's 3 different factions dont have mirror units, dont have similar tactics(due to non similar units), dont have the same economic management nor micro units managements

but despite all these diversities theres a uniqe balance between different factions.

and economics plays a vital role especially in early stages of the game, more like a chess game which has deadly consequences if not managed properly.

plus its single player mode is very good too.

Not going to argue there about faction uniqueness, although Rise of Legends does have that field covered too.

Although, AOE2 isn't THAT similar to each other considering the fact that if you even remotely try to play say Britons as you would the Franks, you would get slaughtered by a decent player.

I must say though, Starcraft does have Very unique races, but the general strategy is more or less to out spam the opponent, atleast from what I've observed.

gunnut
25 Mar 10,, 18:58
I suppose if you just enjoy having mass armies slaughtering each other without bothering any other aspects of civ building, SC was perfect.

Then again, May I suggest you Rise of Legends, the battles are far more satisfying than SC, and yet it has almost no economic management what so ever :cool:

Rise of Legends, is that the steam punk game? I did play that. It's not as refined as StarCraft.

gunnut
25 Mar 10,, 18:59
gunnut your name sounds familiar, and after finding out you play video games and involved in Beta's, have you played Joint Operations Typhoon Rising? America's Army? Any of these names mean a thing to you? -AWG- (Art of War Gaming) or 1vb (1st Veterans Battalion Americas Army) or SarinVX? :))

Never played any of those game other than America's Army, and that lasted about 2 hours.

ace16807
25 Mar 10,, 19:36
As a reference, a SC2 crack that allows you to play against AIs is out there. It's just I don't recall if I'm allowed to disclose anything else about it in accordance with the rules here.

Anyhow. Protoss Colossus is ridiculous.Also, even though it's more convenient, the changes in hotkeys (overlord is E instead of O now, same with pylon, probe, etc.) has been confusing me for a bit. Same with building stalkers which are still in my mind dragoons. I keep hitting "d" and nothing happens. >_>

sohamsri
26 Mar 10,, 06:36
I'm jealous too. :(

Gunnut,

How's protoss ? They were my favourite in the first game.

gunnut
26 Mar 10,, 19:50
I'm jealous too. :(

Gunnut,

How's protoss ? They were my favourite in the first game.

You know, I have never played protoss, not even in the original game. I was just not used to protoss doctrine. I liked either throwing massive number of units at the enemy or sit back in a defensive position. I don't think either works for protoss.

bolo121
27 Mar 10,, 05:36
You know I liked starcraft but never played it much.
When i played I liked the terrans cause they had that big artillery cannon thing. The only negative is that i would have liked the air units to be more like those in command and conquer, ie. swoop in, blast the enemy structure and swoop out instead of just hovering there boringly.
I liked the protoss carriers though, they were fun.

To get the most out of the game you have to go multiplayer online and prior to 2008 i never had such a stable net connection. Plus being a spare time relaxing type of gamer i tend to get stomped pretty quickly.

Tronic
27 Mar 10,, 06:33
I really hope 3D graphics won't ruin gameplay as they did for some other RTSs (especially C&C).

I agree nothing still comes close to Red Alert 2!! 3D graphics somewhat ruin the experience.

sohamsri
27 Mar 10,, 06:47
I never really played multiplayer due to the internet connection.
I loved Protoss for their carriers - loved watching them swarm over those zerglings.
Arbiters(who moved entire armies across the map in a nanosecond)
Dark Templars- Their stealthiness made them ideal for offence and defence.

One of my favourite tactics vs AI(Terrain) was to convert one of their SCVs using those Red Arcons, and create a parallel Terrain army. :))

Big K
29 Mar 10,, 11:29
:))
I never really played multiplayer due to the internet connection.
I loved Protoss for their carriers - loved watching them swarm over those zerglings.
Arbiters(who moved entire armies across the map in a nanosecond)
Dark Templars- Their stealthiness made them ideal for offence and defence.

One of my favourite tactics vs AI(Terrain) was to convert one of their SCVs using those Red Arcons, and create a parallel Terrain army. :))



in a multiplayer game you would be schocked when you see my marines+medics eats your carriers :)

a swarm of marines backed by medics is a nightmare for carriers..surprising isnt it? :))

Maeda Toshiie
29 Mar 10,, 12:25
:))



in a multiplayer game you would be schocked when you see my marines+medics eats your carriers :)

a swarm of marines backed by medics is a nightmare for carriers..surprising isnt it? :))

And a competent protoss commander would have murdered your M&Ms with psionic storms.

sohamsri
29 Mar 10,, 13:18
O'well, thats why they say "Gameplay might drastically change in multiplayer", don't they ? :))

The worst things that happened to my carriers were Ghosts disabling them and leaving them to the mercy of the rest of the army.

gunnut
05 Apr 10,, 20:07
OK, so I finally had a chance to test more of the terrans. My nephew got a key and we played 2v2 against computers. I thought playing against AI was disabled, but it wasn't. It was the single player's campaign that was disabled.

Anyhow, here's my brief review of the terrans.

Units held over:

1. Marines - can't live without them
2. Siege tank - pretty much the same
3. Vulture - name is changed (forgot the new name), instead of grenades, it has flame thrower, no land-mines, just as fast and vulnerable
4. Ghost - it was there, didn't have a chance to use it yet
5. Cruiser - same ol' Yamato cannon here...move along...move along

Units modified:

1. Medic - instead of nurses, they are now produced from Starport, under the name "Medivac"
2. Firebat - renamed to Marauders and instead of flamethrowers, they have grenades that slows down the targets
3. Wraith - forgot the new name, but same cloaking and air-to-air abilities

New untis:

1. Thor - it's like a walking cruiser, powerful regular weapons against ground and air targets, with a special quad-barrel assault cannon against ground targets.
2. Viking - build from Starport, a transformer that goes from an air unit to a ground assault mech
3. (assault troop with jet pack) - forgot the name, builds from barracks, I think these are lighter than marines but can jump up and down cliffs
4. (aerial support) - forgot the name, builds from Starport, these guys drop anti-ground or anti-air turrets that have a time limit


There is a cargo ship, but I didn't get to use it.

The detector ability is moved to one of the new air units.

Command center can now be upgrade with a giant turret with cannons to defend itself, but loses its mobility.

Bunkers can be upgraded to hold 6 guys (from standard 4).

Marines can be upgraded to hold a shield (+10 armor) in addition to the regular armor plating upgrade.

I haven't tried the nukes yet.

Gas mines no longer produce minimal gas after they're exhausted. They're just...dead...



I didn't have much time to test everything last night. I will do more in the next few days. Let me know if there's anything in particular you guys want to know and I'll see what I can find out. My nephew and I will try different factions and different upgrade paths as well. Too bad the AI is restricted to "super easy" setting so we can't have a good long war.

sohamsri
08 Apr 10,, 15:42
Sir,

How's Zerg ? Last I heard, they have some new suicide units which swell with green slime and run straight into their targets. Supposed to be very good against Marines and other basic infantry.

ace16807
08 Apr 10,, 19:18
Sir,

How's Zerg ? Last I heard, they have some new suicide units which swell with green slime and run straight into their targets. Supposed to be very good against Marines and other basic infantry.



Those are banelings, an "upgraded" version of the zergling. I haven't really used them much, but I presume they serve the same purpose as infested terrans did in SC1.

Whenever I play zerg (not often), I usually go with a Roach/Hydra combo w/ support special units. I'm not huge into air.



in a multiplayer game you would be schocked when you see my marines+medics eats your carriers

a swarm of marines backed by medics is a nightmare for carriers..surprising isnt it?

Or you could make it even more embarrassing for the protoss player who went for carriers by using medic/wraith combo or ghost/wraith combo.

gunnut
09 Apr 10,, 02:51
Sir,

How's Zerg ? Last I heard, they have some new suicide units which swell with green slime and run straight into their targets. Supposed to be very good against Marines and other basic infantry.

Zerg is still weird to play, since I haven't played zerg in a long time.

As ace16807 said, zerglings now can evolve into banelings, which are suicide units that do splash damage. Banelings have their own upgrades too, which is from a different structure than Spawning Pool and Evolution Chamber.

Here's a quick run down of the zergs from what I remember:

Units held over:

1. Zergling - wouldn't be zergs without zerging with zerglings.
2. Hydralisk - pretty much the same
3. Ultralisk - even bigger and more terrifying
4. Mutalisk - it's there, but I didn't get to use it

Units modified:

1. Overlord - still a blimp with detectors, still the same upgrades that grant faster movement and cargo capacity, but now can "dump" "zerg creep" over an area to facilitate faster movement by ground units (ground zergs move faster on creep); upgradable to Overseer, which I haven't found out exact what it does
2. Banelings - I guess this replaces infested terrans. The nice thing is now you do not have to infect a Command Center to crank out suicide bombers.
3. Queen - Now called Brood Queen (I think). She does not come from a larva but is built by the Hatchery. I did not have a chance to use this unit extensively to test the abilities.

New Units:
1. Roach - I did not have a chance to use this unit before my nephew moved in with his Protoss Mothership and annihilated the terrans.


I will update this in the near future. Need to fire up a few more games to test more units.

Big K
09 Apr 10,, 08:37
ahhh Zergs were my second favourite.

what about the defiler & dark swarm??

a combo that includes 1-2 defilers 1-2 ultralisk & some other hyrdalisk & zerglings dropped right in the middle of enemys mining area was decisive even if the enemy could repel it.

gunnut
10 Apr 10,, 19:52
ahhh Zergs were my second favourite.

what about the defiler & dark swarm??

a combo that includes 1-2 defilers 1-2 ultralisk & some other hyrdalisk & zerglings dropped right in the middle of enemys mining area was decisive even if the enemy could repel it.

The defiler is no longer around. I think the corruptor and the infestor take over its role. I haven't had a chance to try those less common units yet.

Here's what I found out last night:

The creep colonies no longer generate creep. This function has been taken over by the overlords. The good thing is the overlords are mobile, so you can place creep anywhere you want. The bad thing is they can be easily destroyed.

The spore colony and the spike(?) colony are now mobile. You can tell them to get up and walk over to a new place to deploy. They are very slow when they walk. They are directly morphed from a drone, since there's no more creep colony.

Guardians are now called Brood Lords and are no longer morphed from mutalisks. They are morphed from that other flying unit (forgot the name). Brood Lords no longer launch bombs. They launch Broodlings that walk around and attack things. They have a short timer and will disappear. The good thing is you can launch a bunch of these Broodlings (if you have a lot of Brood Lords) and run away. They will still be around to do their job. The bad thing is the range doesn't seem to be as long as the old Guardian bombs.

Roaches have been nerfed. Armor value is cut from 2 to 1. Movement rate while burrowed is reduced.

Ultralisks can burrow now. :eek:

I will try to find out more about Infestors and Corruptors, along with the new Nydus canal soon.

ace16807
11 Apr 10,, 04:16
The defiler is no longer around. I think the corruptor and the infestor take over its role. I haven't had a chance to try those less common units yet.

Here's what I found out last night:

The creep colonies no longer generate creep. This function has been taken over by the overlords. The good thing is the overlords are mobile, so you can place creep anywhere you want. The bad thing is they can be easily destroyed.

The spore colony and the spike(?) colony are now mobile. You can tell them to get up and walk over to a new place to deploy. They are very slow when they walk. They are directly morphed from a drone, since there's no more creep colony.

Guardians are now called Brood Lords and are no longer morphed from mutalisks. They are morphed from that other flying unit (forgot the name). Brood Lords no longer launch bombs. They launch Broodlings that walk around and attack things. They have a short timer and will disappear. The good thing is you can launch a bunch of these Broodlings (if you have a lot of Brood Lords) and run away. They will still be around to do their job. The bad thing is the range doesn't seem to be as long as the old Guardian bombs.

Roaches have been nerfed. Armor value is cut from 2 to 1. Movement rate while burrowed is reduced.

Ultralisks can burrow now. :eek:

I will try to find out more about Infestors and Corruptors, along with the new Nydus canal soon.

I haven't played lately as I am fixing the computer I play it on. Do you recall if other units have separate building attacks (iirc the ultra had a different attack value for buildings.) Other units must have this as well, no?

gunnut
12 Apr 10,, 04:18
I haven't played lately as I am fixing the computer I play it on. Do you recall if other units have separate building attacks (iirc the ultra had a different attack value for buildings.) Other units must have this as well, no?

Nope, it appears the ultralisk is the only zerg unit that has a separate attack value against buildings.

I tested the other less common units last night as well. In my opinion, most of them are below par value. Against human players, they require too much micro management of their special abilities. It's much better to just "zerg" your opponents with massive numbers and zero special abilities.

1. Brood Queen - I guess this replaces the original queen. It's now directly built by the Lair. What's interesting about this unit is the healing ability. It can heal both units and buildings. This gives the zerg a Medic and an SCV. Another cool ability for the Queen is the Creep Tumor. This replaces the old Creep Colony that generates the creep. Each Creep Tumor can create another create tumor (timer ability). So zergs can effectively cover the entire map.

2. Overseer - Evolved from Overlord. This unit loses the cargo ability but gains the ability to create Changelings. Changelings are formless creatures dropped by the Overseer, and will change into either a Marine, a Zergling, or a Zealot, depending on the first faction they meet. They will mimic the color of that faction as well. These units cannot attack. I don't see the point unless this may be used against human opponents as a recon unit.

3. Infestor - This unit can extend a long tentacle that takes over the control of a single ground biological unit. The Infestor cannot move or do anything else while controlling another unit. The Infestor will lose control if the unit walks too far. Far is "most" of the viewable screen with the Infestor at the center. Infestor takes over the Defiler's job of spraying poisonous slime over an area. I don't think this slime is as powerful as the old one.

4. Nydus Network - This is the replacement of the old Nydus Canal. It's way more powerful because it can show up anywhere on the map that you have visual contact with. You can dump a boat load of Ultralisks right next to your opponent's base if you can see it. It does take a few seconds to complete the spawn. And I'm not sure what happens if the enemy destroys the spawn before it's completed. Maybe all the units contained inside are destroyed as well. This is like the giant sandworm from Dune, transporting units underground.

Big K
12 Apr 10,, 19:03
very interesting insights Gunnut, thanks a lot, looking forward for more :D

gunnut
24 May 10,, 20:41
I just found out Star Craft 2 will not have LAN support. Everything has to be done over the internet.

Big K
24 May 10,, 22:16
this wil diminish its success among internet house players which i think are the real consumers...

gunnut
26 May 10,, 19:32
this wil diminish its success among internet house players which i think are the real consumers...

Yeah, that's just retarded. Sometimes I just want to play a friggin' game without a connection to the internet. :mad: