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  • Israeli Apartheid Week

    Given the opportunity, would you participate in Israeli Apartheid Week and do you support the reasoning and logic behind it? Just interested in seeing how my fellow WABbers fall on this particular topic

    http://apartheidweek.org/

    http://israeliapartheidweek.com/

    Israeli Apartheid Week is actually closer to 2 weeks of lectures and activities all over the world at different universities, including the USA, Canada, England, Scotland, Ireland, Jamaica, Netherlands, Italy, Venezuela, Australia, Israel and surprisingly enough, South Africa. The subject is fairly self explanatory.
    20
    I would participate, I do agree with the logic behind it
    5.00%
    1
    I would participate, I do not agree with the logic behind it
    0.00%
    0
    I would not participate, I do agree with the logic behind it
    30.00%
    6
    I would not participate, I do not agree with the logic behind it
    65.00%
    13
    Last edited by bigross86; 05 Mar 10,, 14:40.
    Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

    Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

  • #2
    Originally posted by bigross86 View Post
    Given the opportunity, would you participate in Israeli Apartheid Week and do you support the reasoning and logic behind it?

    BR,

    It might help if you gave us something of an explanation & provided some links.
    sigpic

    Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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    • #3
      No i would not.
      But...you guys make us and the pakistanis seem relatively sane.
      For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

      Comment


      • #4
        double tap
        Last edited by Stan187; 05 Mar 10,, 20:29.
        In Iran people belive pepsi stands for pay each penny save israel. -urmomma158
        The Russian Navy is still a threat, but only to those unlucky enough to be Russian sailors.-highsea

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        • #5
          Israel Apartheid Week is veiled racism. Its participants can go and screw themselves.
          In Iran people belive pepsi stands for pay each penny save israel. -urmomma158
          The Russian Navy is still a threat, but only to those unlucky enough to be Russian sailors.-highsea

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          • #6
            Support, hell no. I would go along and film them though.
            In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

            Leibniz

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            • #7
              What's the problem, are the organisers jihadists or something?

              It's democratic rallies pointing out the reality of life in Israel/Palestine, anyone who's been can tell you it IS an apartheid state.

              So long as it's peaceful and so long as it's truthful, I support and understand the logic behind it.
              Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
              - John Stuart Mill.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by crooks View Post
                W
                It's democratic rallies pointing out the reality of life in Israel/Palestine, anyone who's been can tell you it IS an apartheid state.
                Based on what? Ethnicity? Religion? Race?
                In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                Leibniz

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                  Based on what? Ethnicity? Religion? Race?
                  Primarily the first, but you could argue all three - The Wall, the banning of Palestinian political parties, the way a West Banker or Gazan can't obtain Israeli citizenship through marriage, Israeli issued 'identity cards' to differentiate Palestinian from Israeli, severe and discriminatory policies against Palestinian civilians restricting movement, property rights and education, as well as constant references to the 'Jewish' character of Israel to make it clear that democratic Arab political discourse is discouraged, and not appreciated.

                  And that's besides the unspoken policies that I've seen with my own two eyes, like the way that even when driving through land that was 80% Palestinian populated on a pretty well-serviced road, the policy was simply not to allow Palestinians drive on it, with Israeli soldiers turning cars of decidedly unterroristic looking families back.

                  Israel is in constant danger, and using it as a justification for the laws and policies they enact, that's fine, and for what it's worth Israel is a heck of a lot freer than the countries around it, though that's not saying much - but It can't enact policies completely at odds with international law and still claim to be a 'liberal' democracy.

                  It's not, it's only free for most, not all.
                  Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
                  - John Stuart Mill.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by crooks View Post
                    Primarily the first, but you could argue all three - The Wall, the banning of Palestinian political parties, the way a West Banker or Gazan can't obtain Israeli citizenship through marriage, Israeli issued 'identity cards' to differentiate Palestinian from Israeli, severe and discriminatory policies against Palestinian civilians restricting movement, property rights and education, as well as constant references to the 'Jewish' character of Israel to make it clear that democratic Arab political discourse is discouraged, and not appreciated.

                    And that's besides the unspoken policies that I've seen with my own two eyes, like the way that even when driving through land that was 80% Palestinian populated on a pretty well-serviced road, the policy was simply not to allow Palestinians drive on it, with Israeli soldiers turning cars of decidedly unterroristic looking families back.

                    Israel is in constant danger, and using it as a justification for the laws and policies they enact, that's fine, and for what it's worth Israel is a heck of a lot freer than the countries around it, though that's not saying much - but It can't enact policies completely at odds with international law and still claim to be a 'liberal' democracy.

                    It's not, it's only free for most, not all.
                    So what about the millions of Arabic Jews and Muslims who are Israeli citizens. Are they suffering under apartheid?
                    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                    Leibniz

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I don't know if I'd support it. Do the organizers claim that all Palestinian territories belong to Israel, hence, all Palestinians are Israel's own people? Because if so, than I can understand the Israel Apartheid Week, otherwise, no, It cant be called apartheid. I will however support any movement which supports free flowing civil aid to Palestine. But then I guess that doesn't top the agenda of these groups, they would rather waste time bashing Israel rather than try to bring attention, aid and opportunities to the people of Palestine to grow.
                      Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                      -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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                      • #12
                        Israel is not an Apartheid state; but the West Bank most definitely is. Thats the fault of the settlers; the immense harm they inflict not just on the Palestinians, but on Israel's image as well.

                        Perhaps they ought to change the name of the event to get their message across more clearly.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by crooks View Post
                          It's democratic rallies pointing out the reality of life in Israel/Palestine, anyone who's been can tell you it IS an apartheid state.

                          So long as it's peaceful and so long as it's truthful, I support and understand the logic behind it.
                          It starts off with their campaign poster, which is of course an Israeli helo shooting a missile at an innocent Palestinian boy. Obvious incitement. We can tell from the beginning how balanced the opinions will be.

                          If you agree that Israel is an apartheid state, with its >20% Arab population who are much freer than all of their neighbors in Arab countries, then you're in some way deficient of brain cells. Any people have a legitimate right to defend themselves. The security fence has all but ended suicide bombings in Israel. But I get it, the lives of Jewish Israel are not worth all that much to you.

                          The logic behind it is simple. It is a sort of moral exclusivism that blames Israel single handedly for the Israeli-Arab and Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It takes into account neither the faults of the Palestinians, nor the terrible situations and conditions through numerous other countries in the world. And why is it okay to point the finger only at Israel and not call out anyone else? Simple, its the Jewish state.

                          So if the logic you speak of is that certain people are subject to one set of standards, and certain countries are subject to one set of standards, and other peoples and countries are not, then yes I see the logic behind it.

                          Let's not beat around the bush. These events are expressive of the new anti-Semitism.
                          In Iran people belive pepsi stands for pay each penny save israel. -urmomma158
                          The Russian Navy is still a threat, but only to those unlucky enough to be Russian sailors.-highsea

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                            So what about the millions of Arabic Jews and Muslims who are Israeli citizens. Are they suffering under apartheid?
                            Nowhere near as much (partially due to a vigilant supreme court), and that's to be commended.

                            It is worth noting though that the Israeli's are often suspicious of Arab-Israelis as they feel the higher birthrate will lead to an eventually huge increase in their population, and that seems to worry them.

                            When I was growing up in Armagh local Protestants were the same, warning of a 'Nationalist takeover' because we Catholics had much higher birthrates.
                            Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
                            - John Stuart Mill.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Stan187 View Post
                              It starts off with their campaign poster, which is of course an Israeli helo shooting a missile at an innocent Palestinian boy. Obvious incitement. We can tell from the beginning how balanced the opinions will be.
                              I've seen much better examples of incitement - go along and tell them that the missile that killed the boy (and there are many examples of Israeli missiles killing innocents) wasn't aimed at him, and that's why Israel is a great nation, it doesn't deliberately kill innocents.

                              The poster is over the top, the point behind it is not.

                              Originally posted by Stan187 View Post
                              If you agree that Israel is an apartheid state, with its >20% Arab population who are much freer than all of their neighbors in Arab countries, then you're in some way deficient of brain cells.
                              Israel likes to compare itself to western democracies, and by that standard it fails miserably, and in it's actions it IS an apartheid state, it wants all the West Bank on top of it's own land, and doesn't want to deal with the pesky natives.

                              I'm from a former colony, and part of my country still IS a colony, I know how the other side feels, and have more balance on things like this than most.

                              Originally posted by Stan187 View Post
                              Any people have a legitimate right to defend themselves. The security fence has all but ended suicide bombings in Israel. But I get it, the lives of Jewish Israel are not worth all that much to you.
                              Of course Israel has a right to defend itself, it has a duty to defend itself - so why the settlements, what purpose do they serve?

                              The stripping of human rights for Palestinian people?

                              All lives matter to me, and the childish anti-semitic slur is not unnoticed, but longterm pissing on the Palestinians endangers far more Israeli lives than building them their own state and focusing on the real threats.

                              Originally posted by Stan187 View Post
                              The logic behind it is simple. It is a sort of moral exclusivism that blames Israel single handedly for the Israeli-Arab and Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It takes into account neither the faults of the Palestinians, nor the terrible situations and conditions through numerous other countries in the world. And why is it okay to point the finger only at Israel and not call out anyone else? Simple, its the Jewish state.
                              Again, you think I blame Israel entirely for the mess that is Israel/Palestine, or you think I've a problem with Israel being Jewish?

                              I don't like religious states, but I've no more contempt for Israel than Denmark - you undermine yourself when you claim the only reason people oppose Israeli actions is because they're Jewish, it's childish and makes you look like an idiot.

                              There are valid reasons to be disapointed with Israel's actions, and if you honestly stand by these actions, that's fine, at least I know where you stand, don't try and pretend the only reason some people find Israeli actions distasteful is because it's a Jew in the tank or airplane.

                              Originally posted by Stan187 View Post
                              So if the logic you speak of is that certain people are subject to one set of standards, and certain countries are subject to one set of standards, and other peoples and countries are not, then yes I see the logic behind it.

                              Let's not beat around the bush. These events are expressive of the new anti-Semitism.
                              I don't believe that to be true - The countries around Israel are worse on almost every level when it comes to tolerance, freedom and equality.

                              That simply doesn't mean Israel is a beacon of any of those three, or a breathtaking example of a free society, because it's not - wanna shut the anti-semitics up?

                              Build an Israel that's the envy of everyone else, not a warzone.
                              Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
                              - John Stuart Mill.

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