Classification confirmation

[gf0012-aust]

academic question here....

am part of an offline email group which discusses military issues etc....

one of the members is indicating that the Iowas were reclassed as BBG's after their missile fitouts.

For the life of me (and I've gone back through 20 years of Bakers and Janes approp references) I cannot find anything that indicates a reclass of type. I've gome back through all the available doco on SAG constructs etc and also unable to see anything

I'm about to go to work and research it all the way back to the early 80s (pref refit) just to make sure, but its not coming up likely. In addition I'm looking at getting some confirmation from one of our USN LO's about it. - However I'd rather not do that in case he wonders what I've been smoking - and why I'd bother..., etc...

So, the Q is for those who served on or in those years, whether anyone referred to the missile refits as BBG's.

bottom line is I think that this is a skewed story but just want to confirm before I burn my credibility with our LO (assuming that I take the last gasp confirmation approach!)


gf

[TopHatter]

A simple look at the various official USN sites that mention the Iowa's will show that they were never classed as BBG's, right down to the ballcaps worn by the sailors.

The "G" suffix indicates a warship with guided missiles as it's primary weapon. The primary weapon of the battleship was still considered it's 16-inch guns, despite the heavy Tomahawk and Harpoon fit.

Of course, the the FFG-7 class ships are now without their missiles but continue to retain their "G" classification, probably more out of either bureaucratic inertia or a desire to reduce confusion and costs associated with changing over to an FF designation (i.e. signage etc)

[gf0012-aust]

A simple look at the various official USN sites that mention the Iowa's will show that they were never classed as BBG's, right down to the ballcaps worn by the sailors.

I'm not the one who needed convincing :)

The "G" suffix indicates a warship with guided missiles as it's primary weapon. The primary weapon of the battleship was still considered it's 16-inch guns, despite the heavy Tomahawk and Harpoon fit.

Of course, the the FFG-7 class ships are now without their missiles but continue to retain their "G" classification, probably more out of either bureaucratic inertia or a desire to reduce confusion and costs associated with changing over to an FF designation (i.e. signage etc)

yep, more than familiar with the G class and what it stands for (I have a devil of a time explaining to some that the Collins was never an SS/SSK but always an SSG, and that the RAN modified Oberons were the first SSG's of type etc...)

I've been right through Janes and Baker III's volumes for the last 20 years - and was intending to go back another 10 years via access to the Def library just to make sure.

as I said, I can't find a single reference to BBG's anywhere, both public and on restricted material locs. eg No ref ever to BBG's in the SAG doctrine docs.

[RustyBattleship]

The classification of the Iowas remained BB throughout their lives. Some news writers and so-called ship experts took some artistic license since we added Tomahawk and Harpoon launchers that they should be reclassified as BBG. However, the Navy did not order such change in classification as they did with some cruisers that were reclassified from CA to CAG when missile launchers were added.

As the structural configuration manager for their modernization, almost every structural drawing done had to cross my desk and not a single one was titled a "BBG".

However, the Tomahawk installation with Armored Box Launchers was meant to be missile system to work with what we had available then until VLS was perfected. Then some major modifications would be done to add 96 VLS cells and then the ship could be classified as a BBG -- IF the Navy wanted to.

The most major classification change the Navy did was with the Chicago and her sister ships that were changed from CA to CG because they were rebuilt from the 2nd deck up and originally intended to carry Polaris missiles.

The worst I ever saw for the Battleships was some diminutive article written by somebody who needed to get a life. Since a Tomahawk missile could be fitted with a nuclear warhead, he classed them as BBG(N). No, the BB's were not nuclear powered and to my knowledge birds with nukes were never installed. But if they were, I was not on the "need to know" list and didn't care anyway. I had enough to keep me busy making sure the ships stayed in one piece and bullet proof at specific critical areas.

[TopHatter]

I'm not the one who needed convincing :)

I know :) I'm having computer problems right now and can't post as effectively as I'd like. :(

as I said, I can't find a single reference to BBG's anywhere, both public and on restricted material locs. eg No ref ever to BBG's in the SAG doctrine docs.

You won't because there isn't any :)

[gf0012-aust]

Thanks all, for one brief horrible moment I thought I'd need to get input from our USN LO and he'd consider me to be a whack job for asking in the first place... :)

much appreciated

[Dreadnought]

BBG,
In agrement with Rusty, some however refered to them as BBG's as in Battleship, battlegroup since USS New Jersey formed the heart of Battlegroup Romeo during her latter reactivation cruise. This was meant to demonstrate that the batleships could form the center piece of their own attack groups and give the carriers more freedom to operate where needed. This was the only time I can recall the ship being refered to as BBG. I cannot see as how they could call them a BBG otherwise where as her 9 16"/50 cals were their primary weapons. A DDG's primary weapons are missles, same as the FFG's were. I agree with Rusty, somebody was taking some artistic liberties.;)

An example of how this could be confused: A blurb from a naval website.

USS New Jersey (BB-62) as the centerpiece of Battle Group Romeo,, the first battleship battle group to deploy to the Western Pacific since the Korean War including Long Beach (CGN-9), Wabash (AOR-5), Merrill (DD-976), Copeland (FFG-25) and Thatch (FFG-43). Taken 12 May 1986 at the beginning of the deployment of the first battleship battle group. During this deployment Battle Group Romeo tested the feasibility, composition, and advantages and limitations of a Battleship Battle Group in environments from the Gulf of Thailand to the Bering Sea

[USSWisconsin]

to my knowledge birds with nukes were never installed. But if they were, I was not on the "need to know" list and didn't care anyway. I had enough to keep me busy making sure the ships stayed in one piece and bullet proof at specific critical areas.

When I was a board the USS Wisconsin 1991, the Marines maintained a strict guard over the aft box launchers, the midships launchers were accessable to vistors and I could look at them. This was my "unoffical" confirmation that TLAM-N Tomahawks may have been carried. I remember the challenge from the Marine guard when I accidently headed in the direction of the aft launchers, He had his hand on his holstered 9mm Berretta, which had a big lanyard so he could reel it back in if he dropped it, I was under the impression he was prepared to use deadly force. ;)

[Dreadnought]

When I was a board the USS Wisconsin 1991, the Marines maintained a strict guard over the aft box launchers, the midships launchers were accessable to vistors and I could look at them. This was my "unoffical" confirmation that TLAM-N Tomahawks may have been carried. I remember the challenge from the Marine guard when I accidently headed in the direction of the aft launchers, He had his hand on his holstered 9mm Berretta, which had a big lanyard so he could reel it back in if he dropped it, I was under the impression he was prepared to use deadly force. ;)

*Not out of the ordinary, you would be surprised at the authorization of deadly force even during WWII at the magazines and power plants. I have this knowledge first hand from a gentlemen and family friend who served aboard the Iowa as a Marine and was his station. The nucleus insignia on the bridge is also a tell-tale that the ships were prepared and trained to carry them aboard for operations.