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Jonathan Locke
18 Apr 05,, 21:06
I think Jackson. I admire him creating the Democratic Party and all, but i hate that he banned the Bank of the United States for a while, plus he was one of the first to use mudslinging. Let us not mention his days as a gambler, abuser, etc....

TexasOutlaw
18 Apr 05,, 21:13
Jimmy Carter....'nuff said ;)

Bill
18 Apr 05,, 21:33
Lyndon Johnson.

TopHatter
18 Apr 05,, 21:47
The only 2 presidents whose full names contain the neccessary letters to spell the word "CRIMINAL"

Richard Milhouse Nixon

and

William Jefferson Clinton

ChrisF202
18 Apr 05,, 23:15
Jimmy Carter the peanut farmer from Jawga.

lwarmonger
18 Apr 05,, 23:26
Jimmy Carter, hands down.

Confed999
19 Apr 05,, 00:11
In my lifetime, Carter...

Praxus
19 Apr 05,, 00:57
FDR/Carter/Johnson (Lyndan)

Bill
19 Apr 05,, 03:15
Lyndon is being massively under-represented on this list.

His sins, next to Carters, are an order of magnitude worse IMO.

Confed999
19 Apr 05,, 03:31
Lyndon is being massively under-represented on this list.
I'd pick him, except I still remember being a little kid trying to figure out WTF Carter was doing, and why. ;)

griftadan
22 Apr 05,, 23:34
most bad presidents get dealt a bad hand, and what happens generally isnt there fault, but in my opinion, id have to say grant, or maybe LBJ.

Bill
23 Apr 05,, 01:01
For those of you not old enough to remember LBJ, it would be wise to read up on him so that you can see that Carter was a brilliant leader of men in comparison.

"There's not an outhouse in Vietnam gets bombed without my say so".
~LBJ

Agent VE
23 Apr 05,, 01:14
Don't know why, but I am saying FDR. My backmind is telling me that, and it is never wrong.

NRA-Chuck
23 Apr 05,, 02:12
Worse Presidents:

1) LBJ --- Failure in Vietnam & starting the welfare programs ruined this country.
2) Jimmy Carter --- A very nice man, but didn't have the balls to run the show.
3) Abe Lincoln --- Yes, honest Abe. The dipshit got alot of people killed over politics. If the South didn't want to be part of the Union, let them leave! A Union should be of the partners choice, not a war to keep someone in the Union. I'll never understand the US Civil War, it accomplished nothing. Abe should have let the South go. Not only that, the battle plan was a diaster, all those loser Northern Generals who Abe couldn't manage.
4) Bill Clinton --- Did nothing. He just happened to be President during the Tech Bubble, was never challenged with real decision and a real moral failure.

Confed999
23 Apr 05,, 19:08
For those of you not old enough to remember LBJ, it would be wise to read up on him so that you can see that Carter was a brilliant leader of men in comparison.
Yes Sir, but the written word is nothing in comparison to actually having to live through the damage done.

FlyingCaddy
23 Apr 05,, 19:26
James Buchanan, he writhed his hands as the union disintigrated, unlike an earlier nominee for worse president Andrew Jackson who had the balls to send the army and navy to South Carolina when they threatened sucession in 1833.

Jonathan Locke
23 Apr 05,, 21:53
Andrew Jackson who had the balls to send the army and navy to South Carolina when they threatened sucession in 1833.


if i recall correctly South Carolina decided to not break from the Union, because they realized that their boasts meant nothing and that by joining the South they would only worsten their economy, not because Jackson was stupid enough to send the army and navy.

Blademaster
24 Apr 05,, 06:57
Worse Presidents:

1) LBJ --- Failure in Vietnam & starting the welfare programs ruined this country.
2) Jimmy Carter --- A very nice man, but didn't have the balls to run the show.
3) Abe Lincoln --- Yes, honest Abe. The dipshit got alot of people killed over politics. If the South didn't want to be part of the Union, let them leave! A Union should be of the partners choice, not a war to keep someone in the Union. I'll never understand the US Civil War, it accomplished nothing. Abe should have let the South go. Not only that, the battle plan was a diaster, all those loser Northern Generals who Abe couldn't manage.
4) Bill Clinton --- Did nothing. He just happened to be President during the Tech Bubble, was never challenged with real decision and a real moral failure.

Seeing you post Abe Lincoln in the part of the list has revealed for what you are: A moron of the highest order.

Abe Lincoln was the greatest president, barely equal to George Washington. Abe Lincoln was a giant who walked on earth. One of the greatest human figures in the history of mankind and you call him one of the worst presidents? You are truly a moron.

Jonathan Locke
24 Apr 05,, 14:41
Seeing you post Abe Lincoln in the part of the list has revealed for what you are: A moron of the highest order.

Abe Lincoln was the greatest president, barely equal to George Washington. Abe Lincoln was a giant who walked on earth. One of the greatest human figures in the history of mankind and you call him one of the worst presidents? You are truly a moron.


I agree with you on the Lincoln part, but i think that Washington is given too much credit. You insinuate that he was a very good president, but you are basing these ideas on the fact that Washignton was a hero of the Revolutionary War, and not on his Presidential career. His character of hero in the war overshadows his minute decisions and agreements as president of the US. People give him so much credit just because he was a general, but that has nothing to do with his later career as President (except that that is why the people chose him), or because he was the first President, which once again has nothing to do with his Presidential life (except that he was lucky, and the people only loved him because he was a General in the war).

Washington was a great man, but all his great deeds are form the revolutionary war. As the President he was ordinary. His founding-father status is what drives people to think that he was a magnificent and perfect President.

Julie
24 Apr 05,, 16:03
Oh Mr. Locke, you disappoint me by your views of President Washington. And you are a professor?

Washington’s contribution to American victory was enormous, and analysis of his leadership reveals much about the nature of the military and political conflict. As a conservative, he was determined to show that American officers could be every bit as civilized and genteel as their European counterparts. He convinced many Americans of the need for a stronger government. Washington and other Virginia nationalists were instrumental in bringing about the Constitutional Convention of 1787 to promote that end.

Elected president in 1788 and AGAIN in 1792, his stiff dignity and sense of propriety postponed the emergence of the fierce partisanship that would characterize the administrations of his three successors—John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison.

Washington made several decisions of far-reaching importance:

During Washington's 2nd Administration, the outbreak of war between revolutionary France and a coalition led by Britain, Prussia, and Austria in 1793 jeopardized American foreign policy and crippled Jefferson’s rival foreign policy design (Jefferson was PRO-FRANCE ya know).

Washington insisted, over Jefferson’s reservations, that the U.S. denounce Genêt and remain neutral in the war between France and Britain. Washington’s anti-French leanings, coupled with the aggressive attitude of the new regime in France toward the U.S., thus served to bring about the triumph of Hamilton’s pro-British foreign policy—formalized by Jay’s Treaty of 1795, WHICH SETTLED OUTSTANDING AMERICAN DIFFERENCES WITH BRITAIN.

Shortly after the president’s death, an Episcopal clergyman, Mason Locke Weems, wrote a fanciful life of Washington for children, stressing the great man’s honesty, piety, hard work, patriotism, and wisdom. Washington has long served as a symbol of American identity along with the flag, the Constitution, and the Fourth of July.

As later historians have examined closely the ideas of the Founding Fathers and the nature of warfare in the Revolution, they have come to the conclusion that Washington’s specific contributions to the new nation were, if anything, somewhat underestimated by earlier scholarship.

George Washington had an important role in shaping America as it stands today. ;) George Washington was much more than ordinary.

sniperdude411
24 Apr 05,, 18:00
1. LBJ-Horrible politics, little correct moral, unwise decisions.
2. Carter-Believed he could actually end the Mid-East crisis, and screwed everything-up.
3. Clinton-Did absolutely NOTHING, half-dissolved the military, and was credited with improving the economy.
4. Nixon-Was just plain bad for so many reasons, it scares me.
5. FDR-prolonged the great depression IMO, but I must say after the great depression, he did a half-way decent job leading the country.

BenRoethig
24 Apr 05,, 19:33
1. Jimmy Carter. Could have been a great president in a perfect world. Unfortunately he came to the presidency in an imperfect world and he didn't have a clue how to cope with that.

2. Woodrow Wilson. Thought he could bring us peace. Unfortunatly he and his buddies at versailles ended up laying the base for an even bigger war and ethnic clensings around the world. He also gave us the blue print for an incompetent world organisation.

3. Andrew Johnson. Congress had to try to impeach him in order to get anything done. Took back all the reforms the civil war generals had done to help the freed slaves.

4. Ulysses S. Grant. Made a great general, but a bad politician. You're only as good as the people around you and Grant had the most corrupt and incompetent cabinet you'll see outside the parliamentary system.

Praxus
24 Apr 05,, 20:01
4. Ulysses S. Grant. Made a great general, but a bad politician. You're only as good as the people around you and Grant had the most corrupt and incompetent cabinet you'll see outside the parliamentary system.

If you call someone who cost the North hundreds of thousands of lives in a horrific war of atrition a great general then sure. But personally I would consider one who finishes it fast with little casulties and with positive conditions a great general.

Confed999
24 Apr 05,, 20:11
Seeing you post Abe Lincoln in the part of the list has revealed for what you are: A moron of the highest order.

Abe Lincoln was the greatest president, barely equal to George Washington. Abe Lincoln was a giant who walked on earth. One of the greatest human figures in the history of mankind and you call him one of the worst presidents? You are truly a moron.
I guess I must be a moron of the higherst order as well then. Much of what has been attributed to Lincoln is myth. There were even times Lincoln went directly against the US Constitution and took on tyranical power. He certainly wasn't the worst president, but nothing like you describe either...

Confed999
24 Apr 05,, 20:19
4. Ulysses S. Grant.
Good or bad, the thing you have to remember about Grant is that he was the only northerner with any credibility in the south.

If you call someone who cost the North hundreds of thousands of lives in a horrific war of atrition a great general then sure. But personally I would consider one who finishes it fast with little casulties and with positive conditions a great general.
The federal government's policies are what caused the war of attrition. Grant was just one of the ones having to fight it. Wars of that magnitude are not fought without massive casualties, and do not end with positive conditions.

Officer of Engineers
24 Apr 05,, 20:20
If you call someone who cost the North hundreds of thousands of lives in a horrific war of atrition a great general then sure. But personally I would consider one who finishes it fast with little casulties and with positive conditions a great general.

That does do General Grant a disservice. There is a misunderstanding about attrition warfare - that you must be able to read the enemy correctly to apply the overwhelming force. On that note, General Grant was on par, if not surpassing, General Lee.

Lee had the uncanny ability to read ground and to take ground and deny the advantage of ground to the Union Forces, however, at pyhric costs. Before Grant, few Union Generals read this, and withdrew to better ground to fight another day. Grant saw that he was in a better position against Lee after Lee took the ground than before he took the ground and continued the battle.

barrowaj
25 Apr 05,, 01:36
For those of you not old enough to remember LBJ, it would be wise to read up on him so that you can see that Carter was a brilliant leader of men in comparison.

"There's not an outhouse in Vietnam gets bombed without my say so".
~LBJDespite his involvement of the US in the Vietnam war, I have to say that LBJ is my favorite pres. His micro management of the war was bad for US strategic planning, but the purpose was to ensure that things didn't get out of hand and cause China or the USSR to get involved. He got the US started in Vietnam because he felt that we had to fight communism militarily or watch the world fall to it. Not that I agree with his actions, but I can rationalize them for the thinking of the day.

I would say the worst pres. would be Herbert Hoover, for letting the US slip into the depression without doing anything about it.

Julie
25 Apr 05,, 02:19
I agree....I've researched them all, and Herbert Hoover has to be the worst. Before the end of his first year in office, the bottom fell out of the American economy, and President Hoover, the man at the top, was readily held responsible for the worst economic depression in American history. Failing to use his executive power to stem the tide of closing banks and failing businesses, Hoover's name was routinely linked to Depression-era hardships. Only toward the end of his term did he institute emergency programs for the failed economy.

I would say Jimmy Carter runs the closest second worst.

highsea
25 Apr 05,, 02:43
I vote for Clinton, though it will be years before we know the extent of the damage he did. He all but gave the keys to Los Alamos to China, and all those nuke designs, neutron bomb, etc.- that stuff will all get built someday.

gangsta540i
25 Apr 05,, 02:48
The worst president by far is George. W. Bush. I don't even want to start with him.

Julie
25 Apr 05,, 03:01
The worst president by far is George. W. Bush. I don't even want to start with him.His second term isn't completed, so he would not be a candidate at this point in time. He may still have a few rabbits to pull from the hat. :)

Bill
25 Apr 05,, 16:12
"Despite his involvement of the US in the Vietnam war, I have to say that LBJ is my favorite pres. His micro management of the war was bad for US strategic planning, but the purpose was to ensure that things didn't get out of hand and cause China or the USSR to get involved. He got the US started in Vietnam because he felt that we had to fight communism militarily or watch the world fall to it. Not that I agree with his actions, but I can rationalize them for the thinking of the day.
"

You've GOT to be kidding me.

Johnson was a moron of the highest order.

Bill
25 Apr 05,, 16:13
"The worst president by far is George. W. Bush. I don't even want to start with him."

Don't you have some drugs to deal or something Gangsta boy?

FlyingCaddy
25 Apr 05,, 19:35
if i recall correctly South Carolina decided to not break from the Union, because they realized that their boasts meant nothing and that by joining the South they would only worsten their economy, not because Jackson was stupid enough to send the army and navy.
Joining the South??? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!!! in 1833 South Carolina was the only state clamoring for sucession, and if not for the mobilization of the Military forces ready to pounce South Carolina would have gotten away with it.

BenRoethig
25 Apr 05,, 19:50
If you call someone who cost the North hundreds of thousands of lives in a horrific war of atrition a great general then sure. But personally I would consider one who finishes it fast with little casulties and with positive conditions a great general.

The war of attrition was fought mostly while grant was in the west. Blame the incompetent generals who commanded the army of the potomic before Meade.

Broken
26 Apr 05,, 00:25
I vote for Clinton, though it will be years before we know the extent of the damage he did. He all but gave the keys to Los Alamos to China, and all those nuke designs, neutron bomb, etc.- that stuff will all get built someday.


Clinton gave the "keys to Los Alamos to China"? What you smokin' there? The tech transfers to China were started under Bush 41.

Bill
26 Apr 05,, 01:46
Actually, it was Gore that was buddy buddy with the Chinese.

They even made contributions to his campaign in 2000.

What clinton did was direct the US to use russian weapons systems, idiot that he was. Fortunately the Navy sufficiently dragged it's feet until Clinton was gone, and we now use a US system in place of the Russian KH-31.

Franco Lolan
26 Apr 05,, 04:00
What clinton did was direct the US to use russian weapons systems, idiot that he was. Fortunately the Navy sufficiently dragged it's feet until Clinton was gone, and we now use a US system in place of the Russian KH-31.

I don't get what you are referring to. Please ellucidate.

highsea
26 Apr 05,, 06:43
Clinton gave the "keys to Los Alamos to China"? What you smokin' there? The tech transfers to China were started under Bush 41.
Espionage at Los Alamos went on for 5 years on Clinton's watch. He whitewashed the entire scandal for 4 more years after it was uncovered, never charged Lee, and in the meantime relaxed restrictions on some highly sensitive technologies to China.

He was responsible for providing China with advanced US missile tech through Loral, China gained our satellite encryption technology from a failed 1996 launch of a Loral sat (by removing the encryption chips from the debris). He approved the sale of supercomputers capable of modeling advanced nuclear weapons. He approved advanced machinery sales (Cincinatti 5-axis stretch presses) to China, which were diverted to the J-11 production line (against the end user license). He allowed them to acquire our single crystal metallurgy for turbine blades- critical technology for high performance jet engines.

And as Snipe mentioned, the KH-31 deal with Russia- what a disaster that was. We had a perfectly good US-made missile for the SSST, the Talos/Sea Snake- one that actually worked as advertised. Clinton decided to buy KH-31's from Russia instead of using the US made missile, and it was such a poor performer that we had to modify an F-4 into a launch drone just to run the tests.

Clinton decided to send engineers from Boeing and McDonnell Douglas to Russia to redesign the KH-31 so it could meet the Navy's requirements. The spec called for a target that could go 50nm on the surface, and the best it could do was 16nm. That little transfer of technology allowed Russia to develop the Sunburn into the missile it is today.

I could go on, but I'm not going to bother. Whether you want to talk about gutting the US military and intelligence departments, or giving away sensitive technology, Clinton was a disaster for US defense.

gangsta540i
26 Apr 05,, 08:27
"The worst president by far is George. W. Bush. I don't even want to start with him."

Don't you have some drugs to deal or something Gangsta boy?

Awwww, Sniper is getting angry now that I said something about his sleeping buddy. Listen kid you don't even know me so shut the hell up. I don't support a president that has no justification to going to war except that his daddy said to get rid of saddam because he couldn't finish the job himself. I'm not saying that Saddam was good, personally I think he's the worst person that ever lived but their is no justification for this war ( oh ya oil ) except claiming their was weapons of mass destruction but he didn't realize the only weapon of mass destruction is himself.

Instead of focusing on America and the economy he digs a hole and attacks Iraq and the soilders have to pay for his WEAK intelligence. He should maybe think about the american people more and jobs they need and the problems they have and go after the terrorist that might cause a concern for America. He's just good for increasing the budget deficet. We'll see if he can turn things around in the second term to save his ass but if he doesn't he did a very crappy job. No wonder half of America was divided this election.

MIKEMUN
26 Apr 05,, 10:37
Awwww, Sniper is getting angry now that I said something about his sleeping buddy. Listen kid you don't even know me so shut the hell up. I don't support a president that has no justification to going to war except that his daddy said to get rid of saddam because he couldn't finish the job himself. I'm not saying that Saddam was good, personally I think he's the worst person that ever lived but their is no justification for this war ( oh ya oil ) except claiming their was weapons of mass destruction but he didn't realize the only weapon of mass destruction is himself.

Instead of focusing on America and the economy he digs a hole and attacks Iraq and the soilders have to pay for his WEAK intelligence. He should maybe think about the american people more and jobs they need and the problems they have and go after the terrorist that might cause a concern for America. He's just good for increasing the budget deficet. We'll see if he can turn things around in the second term to save his ass but if he doesn't he did a very crappy job. No wonder half of America was divided this election.



Another one of those...They seem to be coming out of the woodworks these days... :biggrin: :biggrin: ..It must be killing you that Bush won,right??? :biggrin: :biggrin:

And define divided..

speedracer
26 Apr 05,, 14:59
If the war was for oil, how come the prices are going up? Fighting for oil is a smart thing, it is very hard to get.

Bill
26 Apr 05,, 16:56
"Awwww, Sniper is getting angry now that I said something about his sleeping buddy. Listen kid you don't even know me so shut the hell up."

You don't know me either nitwit.

"I don't support a president that has no justification to going to war except that his daddy said to get rid of saddam because he couldn't finish the job himself."

Wow, did you come up with that all by your widdle wonesome?

Impressive.... :rolleyes:

"I'm not saying that Saddam was good, personally I think he's the worst person that ever lived but their is no justification for this war"

You just gave all the justification any rational man should ever need.

To wit: "All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing".
~Thomas Paine

"( oh ya oil )"

LOL....you're serious, aren't you? :rolleyes:

"except claiming their was weapons of mass destruction but he didn't realize the only weapon of mass destruction is himself."

The intelligence agencies of over 20 nations(including Russia, The UK, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Israel and Kuwait) all said Saddam had WMD. Based on the universal presumption of Iraqs WMD arsenal, it was highly prudent to act when we did.

"We'll see if he can turn things around in the second term to save his ass but if he doesn't he did a very crappy job. No wonder half of America was divided this election."

Such a crappy job, and an electorate so divided, that he won by 3.5 million votes.

Go figure eh Gangsta boy? :rolleyes:

So what's up with that screen name? Are you an urban thug? Living the Gangsta life are you? Do ya shoot with your gat tilted to the side?

LOL...Gangsta... :rolleyes:

Abbott
26 Apr 05,, 19:34
Do ya shoot with your gat tilted to the side?

That is priceless!

Edit: because I was laughing so hard I misspelled priceless.

gangsta540i
27 Apr 05,, 00:27
[QUOTE=M21SniperYou don't know me either nitwit.

Wish I never did dumbass.

"( oh ya oil )"

LOL....you're serious, aren't you?

Ya I am serious, maybe you should watch the news and get more information on the topic your talking about instead of getting it out of you butt.

I'll give you an example. When America practically defeated Iraq the iraqi citizens started to massively loot everything that they can, not to mention ancient work and art from the beginning of civilization from iraqi museams. Guess what the Americans did instead of protecting drawings and other important stuff that can never be recovered ( considering they wanted to free iraqi citizens from saddam and preserve their identity ) that signifed the start of a civilization and Iraq, they were busy guarding the ministry of oil building.

"except claiming their was weapons of mass destruction but he didn't realize the only weapon of mass destruction is himself."

The intelligence agencies of over 20 nations(including Russia, The UK, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Israel and Kuwait) all said Saddam had WMD. Based on the universal presumption of Iraqs WMD arsenal, it was highly prudent to act when we did.

Where are they? I don't see them, judging by what your saying about the other countries intelligence agencies saying he had them, your accusing their agencies by saying their intelligence flatly sucks.

Such a crappy job, and an electorate so divided, that he won by 3.5 million votes.

Ya mostly " middle " america and down south were all the rednecks and the Bush is the greatest mentality is. Have you notice the surrounding areas of America were most of the more urban and educated people live all wanted Kerry.

So what's up with that screen name? Are you an urban thug? Living the Gangsta life are you? Do ya shoot with your gat tilted to the side?

You seem to know more of this "gangsta" life than I do, unfortunetly you should grow some balls and act your age and stop worrying about my screen name and start worrying about what the hell your talking about.

QUOTE]

Julie
27 Apr 05,, 00:39
Saddam should have been removed long ago....all leaders have been too whimpy to do it....yeah and that includes George's Dad as well.

The oil has to be protected since it is their only form of revenue....because it is such an underdeveloped country, otherwise the millions of Iraqis would starve to death. Ancient relics won't feeds millions of people.

I'm from the South, ..... are you insinuating I am "uneducated?"

gangsta540i
27 Apr 05,, 01:15
Saddam should have been removed long ago....all leaders have been too whimpy to do it....yeah and that includes George's Dad as well.

The oil has to be protected since it is their only form of revenue....because it is such an underdeveloped country, otherwise the millions of Iraqis would starve to death. Ancient relics won't feeds millions of people.

I'm from the South, ..... are you insinuating I am "uneducated?"

Well they had a reason to attack Iraq when bush's dad was involved and they should have gotten the job done. I agree with that but I don't agree with the current reason to attack Iraq. If they said he had weapons of mass destruction they should have proved it and I think in my opinion which i'm entitled to that this war wasn't worth 1000+ soldiers dying and leaving their loved ones behind for a war that posed no immediate threat considering he ( saddam ) didn't even have enough bullets for his own army.

Listen regarding the oil all I know from my understanding and what I have been reading and watching is that he wanted to have a controlling interest in the oil and i'm not here to initiate arguments so lets leave it at that.

Regarding about the south being uneducated if you took it that way that was not my intention. What I meant is that the educated and noneducated people living in middle america and the south are devout republicans and will always choose them regardless of what they offer it's just what they do. And the outer areas of America chose kerry because they don't care if their republican or democratic all they want is the better person that can do the job.

Confed999
27 Apr 05,, 01:25
I agree with that but I don't agree with the current reason to attack Iraq.
The only difference between the reasons is one had Kuwait, and the other an ignored cease-fire. If it was for oil alone, the sanctions would have simply been lifted.

What I meant is that the educated and noneducated people living in middle america and the south are devout republicans and will always choose them regardless of what they offer it's just what they do. And the outer areas of America chose kerry because they don't care if their republican or democratic all they want is the better person that can do the job.
I'm educated, and I voted for Bush because I could see from Kerry's record he couldn't do the job. I'm registered independant/Libertarian though. ;)

Abbott
27 Apr 05,, 01:51
And the outer areas of America chose kerry because they don't care if their republican or democratic all they want is the better person that can do the job.

Your right, I do not care if candidates are Democratic or Republican. I live in Oregon, a state that voted Kerry. I have a degree. I also choose who I thought was the better man for the job, I voted for Bush.

Gio
27 Apr 05,, 03:44
Bush won college and high school graduates, though. :)

lwarmonger
29 Apr 05,, 06:35
Well they had a reason to attack Iraq when bush's dad was involved and they should have gotten the job done. I agree with that but I don't agree with the current reason to attack Iraq. If they said he had weapons of mass destruction they should have proved it and I think in my opinion which i'm entitled to that this war wasn't worth 1000+ soldiers dying and leaving their loved ones behind for a war that posed no immediate threat considering he ( saddam ) didn't even have enough bullets for his own army.


75000 dead Kurds in addition to uncounted Iranians proved it to nearly every intelligence agency on the planet. Also, President Bush waited to intervene until France said that even with definitive proof that Iraq was developing weapons of mass destruction that they would veto a call for military action.



Listen regarding the oil all I know from my understanding and what I have been reading and watching is that he wanted to have a controlling interest in the oil and i'm not here to initiate arguments so lets leave it at that.


Of course he did. Just as the United States had a controlling interest in Japanese and German industry after WWII. If you crush all existing organization, then you have to make a new one, but while you are doing that, it is necessary to directly administer it yourself.



Regarding about the south being uneducated if you took it that way that was not my intention. What I meant is that the educated and noneducated people living in middle america and the south are devout republicans and will always choose them regardless of what they offer it's just what they do. And the outer areas of America chose kerry because they don't care if their republican or democratic all they want is the better person that can do the job.

I live on a college campus. Most of these students do not vote democratic because they have educated opinions on politics. They vote democratic based on slogans and prejudice. Characterizing everyone on your side as reasoned, while everyone else is just a fanatical demogogue is disproving the "your side is reasoned" arguement. I'd have to say that there are reasoned individuals on both sides, but I know I can make a better arguement for long term power under Republican philosophies than any reasoned Democrat I've met. Generally we end up agreeing that they don't care about national power, and because of that they vote Democratic. Since I do care about having a strong nation over the long term, at some small expenses today, I vote Republican.

Bluesman
29 Apr 05,, 14:34
Regarding about the south being uneducated if you took it that way that was not my intention. What I meant is that the educated and noneducated people living in middle america and the south are devout republicans and will always choose them regardless of what they offer it's just what they do. And the outer areas of America chose kerry because they don't care if their republican or democratic all they want is the better person that can do the job.


Embrace history, genius. The 'Solid South' is a phrase that used to mean solidly Democratic. It now means solidly REPUBLICAN, and we're talking about recent developments, here. So, your assertion that "...the educated and noneducated people living in middle america and the south are devout republicans and will always choose them..." is bunk.

YOU are the prejudiced and ignorant one, here, sportsman. You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. The people of the South and middle America are CONSERVATIVE, and will vote that way, NOT by party.

HOWEVER, the BLUE staters are MUCH more committed to PARTY affiliation. Your argument has been stood on its head.

Bluesman
29 Apr 05,, 14:41
Oh, my wife and I live in Florida (that's in the South, skidmark), we're both MENSAns, and we BOTH VOTED FOR BUSH.

For someone that can barely compose a rational thought and seems to have literacy problems, you've got a lot o' dam' gall to be casting aspersions on the intellect of others based on your misperceptions of their voting habits.

Seems kind of...oh, I don't know...ironic. ;)

TopHatter
29 Apr 05,, 19:22
So what's up with that screen name? Are you an urban thug? Living the Gangsta life are you? Do ya shoot with your gat tilted to the side?

LOL...Gangsta... :rolleyes:

Heh heh...I think MIKEMUN was right, these types seem to crawl out of the woodwork...or sewer...with frightening regularity :rolleyes:
Love that screen name too...gangsta...urban thug...Snipe, you're killing me :biggrin:

TexasOutlaw
01 May 05,, 01:06
Gangsta...one other thing that hasn't been mentioned that much on this thread...We as a nation does not get as much oil from the Mid-East as you are being led to believe. While we do have our own reserves *last I was told 100yrs worth*, we also get 90% of our oil from South America. That you can ask anybody that works in the drilling and exploration department of any American Oil Company.

I'll give you the top 5 in the world to contact. ;)

Halliburton
Weatherford International
Schlumberger
Baker
Smith Tool

Dont believe all that CNN tells you... :biggrin:

gangsta540i
01 May 05,, 04:30
Oh, my wife and I live in Florida (that's in the South, skidmark), we're both MENSAns, and we BOTH VOTED FOR BUSH.

For someone that can barely compose a rational thought and seems to have literacy problems, you've got a lot o' dam' gall to be casting aspersions on the intellect of others based on your misperceptions of their voting habits.

Seems kind of...oh, I don't know...ironic. ;)


Wow, alot of anger their Bluesman, I'm glad I pissed you off even though I don't give a crap about what you say. Regarding you thinking that i'm uneducated or have literacy problems, I am actually quite educated and have acheived alot of accomplishments in my life so don't make an assumption on someone unless you know the facts.

Maybe you should RATIONALLY think about keeping you mouth shut because you can't keep mine shut and just because I hate Bush and that makes you angry doesn't mean I'll stop and won't answer back. nuff said. :biggrin:

Confed999
01 May 05,, 04:51
Maybe you should RATIONALLY think
He did have a good point about the South being Democrat until recently. :)

Bluesman
01 May 05,, 13:51
Wow, alot of anger their Bluesman, I'm glad I pissed you off even though I don't give a crap about what you say. Regarding you thinking that i'm uneducated or have literacy problems, I am actually quite educated and have acheived alot of accomplishments in my life so don't make an assumption on someone unless you know the facts.

Maybe you should RATIONALLY think about keeping you mouth shut because you can't keep mine shut and just because I hate Bush and that makes you angry doesn't mean I'll stop and won't answer back. nuff said. :biggrin:

I see by the above post that you got your money's worth out of that free public education.

Actually, junior, I was trying to point out that you have literacy problems, and those two paragraphs that you just mangled really goes a long way - ALL the way, actually - to proving my point.

I'm not a spelling-and-grammer Nazi, but really, if you're trying to come off as something other than a grade-school temper-tantrum-prone special-ed kid, you should at least not give your opponent any ammunition.

You're an ignorant punk. You're dismissed.

rotorooter
01 May 05,, 17:04
Bush won college and high school graduates, though. :)


No, he did not.

Kerry won the vote of college graduates.

You may be right about the high school part though.


Overall more uneducated+little-eductaed people voted for Bush.

IMO it is the religious people who made the difference, which is kind of scarry since we want secular govt. in Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan but on home front we have elected religious govt.!

As you can see religious people in big majority voted for Bush.

WHITE EVANGELICAL/BORN-AGAIN? BUSH KERRY NADER
TOTAL 2004 2000 2004 2004

Yes (23%)---------------------------- 78% ---- 21% ----0%
No (77%) -----------------------------43% ----- 56%---- 0%



VOTE BY CHURCH ATTENDANCE BUSH
KERRY NADER
TOTAL 2004 2000 2004 2004

More Than Weekly (16%) 64% +1 35% 1%

Weekly (26%) 58% +1 41% 0%

Monthly (14%) 50% +4 49% *

A Few Times a Year (28%) 45% +3 54% 0%

Never (15%) 36% +4 62% 1%



VOTE BY CHURCH ATTENDANCE BUSH
KERRY NADER
TOTAL 2004 2000 2004 2004

Weekly (41%) 61% n/a 39% 0%

Occasionally (40%) 47% n/a 53% 0%

Never (14%) 36% n/a 62% 1%

Confed999
01 May 05,, 20:54
No, he did not.

Kerry won the vote of college graduates.

You may be right about the high school part though.
Where are your stats on that? I've never seen Gio wrong with his statistics.

but on home front we have elected religious govt.!
Huh? Kerry claimed to be a Christian too. There's a difference between a religious person and a theocracy.

gangsta540i
02 May 05,, 02:29
I see by the above post that you got your money's worth out of that free public education.

Actually, junior, I was trying to point out that you have literacy problems, and those two paragraphs that you just mangled really goes a long way - ALL the way, actually - to proving my point.

I'm not a spelling-and-grammer Nazi, but really, if you're trying to come off as something other than a grade-school temper-tantrum-prone special-ed kid, you should at least not give your opponent any ammunition.

You're an ignorant punk. You're dismissed.

Hmmm, I guess I was just in class with the biggest dumbass known to man. When I was in grade school ( a long time ago ) I was in honours all throughout school ( including English ) and your saying that my two paragraphs had a lot of mistakes signifying that I'm a " grade-school temper-tantrum-prone special-ed kid ".

Does it look like I give a **** about how perfectly my paragraphs are when I'm trying to prove a point, I really don't care unless it was a test for a writing proficency or something. I your so into proofreading posts and being particular about pointing out what mistakes they made than you should consider going somewhere else because you won't be making friends here you old piece of crap. :biggrin:

Confed999
02 May 05,, 02:33
Hmmm, I guess I was just in class with the biggest dumbass known to man. When I was in grade school ( a long time ago ) I was in honours all throughout school ( including English ) and your saying that my two paragraphs had a lot of mistakes signifying that I'm a " grade-school temper-tantrum-prone special-ed kid ".

Does it look like I give a **** about how perfectly my paragraphs are when I'm trying to prove a point, I really don't care unless it was a test for a writing proficency or something. I your so into proofreading posts and being particular about pointing out what mistakes they made than you should consider going somewhere else because you won't be making friends here you old piece of crap. :biggrin:
When you imply someone is stupid because they do not believe as you do, you should expect the same in return.

gangsta540i
02 May 05,, 02:49
When you imply someone is stupid because they do not believe as you do, you should expect the same in return.


Listen Confed I really don't care if he voted for Bush or not good for him that's his decision. I personally don't like him and when he comes back at me implying that i'm a special education student you know as well as I do i'm not gonna take crap from someone that doesn't even know who I am.


I was raised to stick up for myself and not take crap from anyone and that's how it's gonna be. If he wants to continue to argue he started with the wrong person.

Confed999
02 May 05,, 02:51
I was raised to stick up for myself and not take crap from anyone and that's how it's gonna be. If he wants to continue to argue he started with the wrong person.
He was probably raised the same way.

Bill
02 May 05,, 07:41
"Hmmm, I guess I was just in class with the biggest dumbass known to man. When I was in grade school ( a long time ago ) I was in honours all throughout school ( including English ) and your saying that my two paragraphs had a lot of mistakes signifying that I'm a " grade-school temper-tantrum-prone special-ed kid "."

Hmmmm.

I wonder if he was a BMW stealin', gat totin', Gangsta thug back then too?

LOL.

Yep, right from the screen name i could immediately tell we were dealing with a future Nobel Peace Laureate.

Or not... :biggrin:

Da Gangstas contention that Bush is the worst ever president is so ridiculously stupid that i'm not sure if even a severe head trauma event would knock any sense into Da Thug. I'm thinking probably not.

otomik
02 May 05,, 16:08
Warren G Harding
dragged the country through the mud with his many affairs, some of which used blackmail to try and effect his votes and probably did impact how he carried out the job. It's bordering on a mental health issue, far beyond clinton really. incredible corruption in general, open to every influence and at an important transitional period where he cound have done many things to set the economy on a better course.

Carter was dealt a tough hand, he had to deal with all the issues we don't have an answers to today even (energy policy and islamofascists). i don't see where he wasn't competent and he had the balls to tell us how it was in the malaise speech, "stop crying and start sweating." Reagan's campaign built upon the malaise speech. Carter had balls as an ex-president too, going down to Cuba like he did, probably our best ex-president.

TopHatter
02 May 05,, 17:54
I was raised to stick up for myself and not take crap from anyone and that's how it's gonna be. If he wants to continue to argue he started with the wrong person.

I've met so many people like you...
So unbelievably arrogant and self-centered about "taking crap" from someone that if they say something just the wrong way or glance at you at the wrong time you immediately become a maniac picking a fist fight. And all because you thought they were giving you "crap".
Your screenname is perfect example. "I am a badass and don't try to give me crap or I'll bust you up."
People like you usually end up in prison for assault...or just plain dead because somebody decided to give you some "crap" and it was a bit more "crap" than you could handle.

Hey, there is absolutely nothing wrong with sticking up for yourself. Nobody should have DOORMAT written on their forehead.

Bill
02 May 05,, 18:13
You're talking to a Ghost TH....Da Gangsta has been banned. :)

TopHatter
02 May 05,, 19:04
You're talking to a Ghost TH....Da Gangsta has been banned. :)

Damn...ignored again :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Confed999
04 May 05,, 01:59
Damn...ignored again :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
Nah, it was quite nice. ;)

Shek
28 Jun 05,, 03:18
No, he did not.

Kerry won the vote of college graduates.

You may be right about the high school part though.



Kerry only won the vote of those who didn't complete high school and those who have completed some postgraduate study. Gio was correct.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html
http://alumni.oregonstate.edu/stater/issues/Stater0412/2004election.htm
http://www.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1034&context=ev

EPA
23 Oct 05,, 06:06
I think Jackson. I admire him creating the Democratic Party and all, but i hate that he banned the Bank of the United States for a while, plus he was one of the first to use mudslinging. Let us not mention his days as a gambler, abuser, etc....

BUSH!