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Shamus
27 Jan 10,, 21:40
All right,all right....I have to admit it.I am a dyed-in-the-wool NASCAR fanatic,have been since I was a young'un watching Cale Yarborough,Richard Petty,the Allisons,the Labontes,David Pearson and all the other greats that have come up through the ranks over the years.I enjoy it all....the racing,pit strategies,the personalities and even the cheating;).I was a Dale Earnhardt Sr. fan from the first time I saw him race.The sport truly lost one of its' great personalities when he was killed at Daytona.

This thread is for predictions,commentary,criticisms and anything else related to the "Left turn only" racing sport:cool::)).

Dreadnought
27 Jan 10,, 22:11
All right,all right....I have to admit it.I am a dyed-in-the-wool NASCAR fanatic,have been since I was a young'un watching Cale Yarborough,Richard Petty,the Allisons,the Labontes,David Pearson and all the other greats that have come up through the ranks over the years.I enjoy it all....the racing,pit strategies,the personalities and even the cheating;).I was a Dale Earnhardt Sr. fan from the first time I saw him race.The sport truly lost one of its' great personalities when he was killed at Daytona.

This thread is for predictions,commentary,criticisms and anything else related to the "Left turn only" racing sport:cool::)).

*Right there with you Shamus, however my interest left town when Dale Earnhardt Sr. was killed and Nascar became so safe and politically correct then it made my stomache turn.:( Once again they killed a great sport. Hockey is the last bastion of real sports left IMO.

highsea
27 Jan 10,, 22:21
I grew up with NASCAR too, watching the races every Sunday with my dad. I hate the time of year between Homestead and Daytona, longest 2 months of the year.

I'll pick Denny Hamlin for Daytona, the Gibbs cars were strong on superspeedways last year and Denny finished out the year with 3 wins in the lat 11 races.

It will be intersting to watch Danica's go at the big leagues, hope the boys don't shove her into the wall too early on. :P

Dreadnought
28 Jan 10,, 14:56
*Did you hear that for Daytona they are going to minimize the effect of the restrictor plate and return the adjustable rear spoiler to the cars. I only heard of this yesterday. IMO, take the restrictor plates off and let them run wide open for Daytona. Return the sport to Nascar, they have already choked it with political correctness and safety.:cool:

Shamus
28 Jan 10,, 15:07
*Did you hear that for Daytona they are going to minimize the effect of the restrictor plate and return the adjustable rear spoiler to the cars. I only heard of this yesterday. IMO, take the restrictor plates off and let them run wide open for Daytona. Return the sport to Nascar, they have already choked it with political correctness and safety.:cool:I would have to agree with the removal of the restrictor plates.I believe this would eliminate the majority of the bunching up during the race and actually make it more competitive.Also with no restrictor plates the "Big One" that always seems to happen at towards the end of the race probably wouldn't happen.

I've got a picture somewhere of my son at Henry Ford Museum standing next to Bill Elliot's car he used to set the qualifying speed record for a NASCAR race.....212mph.......now that's fast;):biggrin:.

rj1
01 Feb 10,, 17:30
Diehard racing fan. Love most forms, designed a sportscar chassis to race, would love to race USAC, and therefore I'm crying as the sport is getting destroyed from the inside out. The state of Indycar, USAC, sportscars, the grassroots, and one could argue F1 and NASCAR, is just pitiful. The sport in general is devolving into becoming a millionaires-only enterprise. The cars cost too much, there's not enough sponsorship money out there, there's not enough purse money out there, so drivers are becoming less based on talent and more based on "how much money can you bring?"


Dreadnought: IMO, take the restrictor plates off and let them run wide open for Daytona. Return the sport to Nascar, they have already choked it with political correctness and safety.

They'll never let it happen because of this crash. Qualifying speed that year was Bill Elliott going 212mph (this is 1987 stock car technology mind you, imagine how fast they'd go today). If Allison cleared the fence, NASCAR would not exist today. They'd've been sued out of existance. And would be in the future if it occurred.

wySxP-tWZQU

I hate restrictor plates, but NASCAR knows a lot of the people that watch love the crash and in light of the above, it's easy for them to justify it by safety. After Earnhardt's death, they couldn't afford to turn their eye away from safety when the sport is dependent on corporate sponsorship. They turned a blind eye to safety after Kenny Irwin's death, and what happens? A few months later the future of the Petty racing family Adam Petty dies on the same track at the same spot as Irwin's death. NASCAR's response to Earnhardt's death was "we'll make the cars tanks so they can take anything", and so far it's worked although at some point a driver is going to die at Daytona or Talladega again.

To be perfectly honest, Daytona and Talladega are too fast for modern stock cars. They can either reduce the banking, those tracks require V6 engines, or just stop racing there. But that will never happen because the same family owns those two tracks and NASCAR and they're not going to voluntarily kill their cash cows.

rj1
01 Feb 10,, 17:42
Here's a rough Daytona 500 entry list I put together a week ago with help from Jayski:

34 Guaranteed Entries:

#5 - Mark Martin - Hendrick
#24 - Jeff Gordon - Hendrick
#48 - Jimmie Johnson - Hendrick
#88 - Dale Earnhardt Jr. - Hendrick

#2 - Kurt Busch - Penske
#12 - Brad Keselowski - Penske
#77 - Sam Hornish - Penske

#11 - Denny Hamlin - Joe Gibbs
#18 - Kyle Busch - Joe Gibbs
#20 - Joey Logano - Joe Gibbs

#14 - Tony Stewart - Stewart Haas
#39 - Ryan Newman - Stewart Haas

#6 - David Ragan - Roush
#16 - Greg Biffle - Roush
#17 - Matt Kenseth - Roush
#99 - Carl Edwards - Roush

#1 - Jamie McMurray - Earnhardt Ganassi
#42 - Juan Montoya - Earnhardt Ganassi

#9 - Kasey Kahne - Richard Petty (this team now is a merger of Evernham, Yates, and Petty)
#19 - Elliott Sadler - Richard Petty
#43 - A.J. Allmendinger - Richard Petty
#98 - Paul Menard - Richard Petty

#82 - Scott Speed - Red Bull
#83 - Brian Vickers - Red Bull

#29 - Kevin Harvick - Childress (dropping their 4th car this year, what used to be the #07)
#31 - Jeff Burton - Childress
#33 - Clint Bowyer - Childress

#00 - David Reutimann - Michael Waltrip
#56 - Martin Truex - Michael Waltrip (was the #55 last year)

#47 - Marcos Ambrose - JTG Daugherty
#26 - Boris Said - Latitude 43 (bought the 5th Roush team since Roush was required to drop to 4)
#7 - Robby Gordon - Robby Gordon
#34 - John Andretti - Front Row
#71 - Bobby Labonte - The Racers Group

the 35th automatic entry, although they may not race this season:

#96 - TBA - Hall of Fame

if they don't race, this team will take their automatic starting position:

#09 - Aric Almirola - Phoenix

champion's provisional on offer:

#21 - Bill Elliott - Wood Brothers

has to race in for remaining 7 spots (potentially would also include Almirola and is accounting for Elliott as the 8th spot, using judgment here):

#13 - Max Papis - Germain
#32 - Reed Sorenson - Braun
#36 - Mike Bliss - Tommy Baldwin
#37 - Travis Kvapil - Front Row
#38 - Robert Richardson Jr. - Front Row
#46 - Terry Cook (R) - Dusty Whitney
#49 - David Gilliland - BAM
#51 - Michael Waltrip - Michael Waltrip
#64 - TBA - Gunselman
#66 - TBA - Prism
#78 - Regan Smith - Furniture Row
#87 - Joe Nemechek - Nemco
#90 - Casey Mears - Keyed Up (boy has he fallen down)

And then there's the Norm Bennings and Kirk Shelmerdines that never announce plans but enter and show up.

Andrey Egorov
01 Feb 10,, 18:46
Watched Bobby Allison's crash, it looked horrible. Was any safety measures taken - car construction, circuit design?
I'm noob in NASCAR :redface:

rj1
01 Feb 10,, 19:41
Watched Bobby Allison's crash, it looked horrible. Was any safety measures taken - car construction, circuit design?
I'm noob in NASCAR :redface:

Restrictor plates allowing less and less air to get put into the engine, removing horsepower. Speeds are about 23mph less now than 23 years ago, but the consequence is that no one car can get away from another car due to the effects of the draft and the trailing car getting an advantage from a big aerodynamic hole that cannot be overcome by the horsepower of the leading car, so the restrictor plate pretty much invented massive pack racing.

This only occurs on two tracks, Daytona and Talladega, and they haven't really been changed although safety improvements such as higher fences and softer walls have been put in place. The greatest safety improvements have been to the cars themselves, the aforementioned restrictor plates but also stuff such as flaps on the roof to stop the cars from getting airborne (although it still happens sometimes), a rear wing to help provide downforce (about to be removed to go back to a spoiler), internal cockpit safety improvements like the HANS device (acts as a neck restraint, Dale Earnhardt died because when he crashed his torso was held back by the seat belt system but his brain and skull moved forward).

Andrey Egorov
01 Feb 10,, 19:54
Thanks. That means NASCAR holders try to improve overall car safety besides slowing the pace. Though I barely understand how HANS works without F1/Indycar-like cockpit.
In my opinion a car must be crash-tested severly and track must be safe itself, not slow but at least wide and surrounded with tire-walls.

Shamus
01 Feb 10,, 23:36
Thanks. That means NASCAR holders try to improve overall car safety besides slowing the pace. Though I barely understand how HANS works without F1/Indycar-like cockpit.
In my opinion a car must be crash-tested severly and track must be safe itself, not slow but at least wide and surrounded with tire-walls.Andrey,the HANS device basically immobilizes and protects the neck and base of the skull during a crash.Dale Sr. died of a basil skull fracture......when he impacted the wall his body started forward and to the right due to the angle of the impact.His harness stopped the movement of his body but his head still had the momentum,plus the weight of his helmet,to fracture the base of his skull.Dale refused to wear a HANS device and had approximately half of the drivers in the sport siding with him.After he was killed Dale Jarrett said in an interview "Dale Earnhardt was Superman to us and we followed his lead......well,Superman was just killed at Daytona.....we all started wearing the HANS device....".

Andrey Egorov
02 Feb 10,, 06:23
Shamus, thanks. It just appeared to me somehow that HANS is bound to cockpit, not the driver himself. I was wrong. The list of NASCAR drivers who died from Basilar skull fractures is terribly impressing... :(

BenRoethig
19 Feb 10,, 16:22
Diehard racing fan. Love most forms, designed a sportscar chassis to race, would love to race USAC, and therefore I'm crying as the sport is getting destroyed from the inside out. The state of Indycar, USAC, sportscars, the grassroots, and one could argue F1 and NASCAR, is just pitiful. The sport in general is devolving into becoming a millionaires-only enterprise. The cars cost too much, there's not enough sponsorship money out there, there's not enough purse money out there, so drivers are becoming less based on talent and more based on "how much money can you bring?"



They'll never let it happen because of this crash. Qualifying speed that year was Bill Elliott going 212mph (this is 1987 stock car technology mind you, imagine how fast they'd go today). If Allison cleared the fence, NASCAR would not exist today. They'd've been sued out of existance. And would be in the future if it occurred.

wySxP-tWZQU

I hate restrictor plates, but NASCAR knows a lot of the people that watch love the crash and in light of the above, it's easy for them to justify it by safety. After Earnhardt's death, they couldn't afford to turn their eye away from safety when the sport is dependent on corporate sponsorship. They turned a blind eye to safety after Kenny Irwin's death, and what happens? A few months later the future of the Petty racing family Adam Petty dies on the same track at the same spot as Irwin's death. NASCAR's response to Earnhardt's death was "we'll make the cars tanks so they can take anything", and so far it's worked although at some point a driver is going to die at Daytona or Talladega again.

To be perfectly honest, Daytona and Talladega are too fast for modern stock cars. They can either reduce the banking, those tracks require V6 engines, or just stop racing there. But that will never happen because the same family owns those two tracks and NASCAR and they're not going to voluntarily kill their cash cows.

They had Rusty test the old car and was doing laps close to 230 (~365-370kph).


Watched Bobby Allison's crash, it looked horrible. Was any safety measures taken - car construction, circuit design?
I'm noob in NASCAR :redface:

Cars were space frame instead of production based by that time, but there safety wasn't the biggest priority in the 80s.


Shamus, thanks. It just appeared to me somehow that HANS is bound to cockpit, not the driver himself. I was wrong. The list of NASCAR drivers who died from Basilar skull fractures is terribly impressing... :(

If it was bound to the cockpit it would save you from breaking your neck, but you'd be screwed in if there was a fire. Its hard enough getting out of the car with one on as it is.

zraver
25 Feb 10,, 20:31
If it was bound to the cockpit it would save you from breaking your neck, but you'd be screwed in if there was a fire. Its hard enough getting out of the car with one on as it is.

However, unlike Mr John Q Public, they are wearing full body fire resistant protection so a little bit of fire is manageable. Basilar skull fractures however have killed 4 drivers in 5 different racing circuits in recent years.

bolo121
25 Feb 10,, 21:24
because of wab just watched a bit of nascar late at night on espn.
lots of identical looking big american cars going round and round a big oval...yawn. No proper corners, no chicanes no right turns even.
Best i can figure is that people like the constant wheel banging and occasional pileups.
Here i was thinking that F1 was boring.

highsea
25 Feb 10,, 21:29
^^ I takes a while to learn what's going on. If you don't know what they are doing, it doesn't seem very interesting.

Anyone catch that bondo job on the track at Daytona? That was wierd, I've never seen them do that before. I hope they don't repave the track over it.

Shamus
25 Feb 10,, 21:39
because of wab just watched a bit of nascar late at night on espn.
lots of identical looking big american cars going round and round a big oval...yawn. No proper corners, no chicanes no right turns even.
Best i can figure is that people like the constant wheel banging and occasional pileups.There are two road races on the schedule.....chicanes and all:).Sonoma in California and Watkins Glen in New York.