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Gang war or low-intensity rebellion?

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  • Gang war or low-intensity rebellion?

    Go here for the original: Drug gang revenge attack kills Mexico marine's family - Yahoo! News
    QUINTIN ARAUZ, Mexico (Reuters) – Drug gang hitmen shot dead the grieving mother, brother, sister and aunt of an elite Mexican marine who died after taking part in a raid that killed a notorious drug lord, police said on Tuesday.

    Gunmen burst into the family's home in Quintin Arauz in the southern state of Tabasco just before midnight on Monday, firing assault rifles. It appeared to be a revenge attack for a Mexican navy operation last week that killed Arturo Beltran Leyva, the boss of a major drug cartel.

    "They broke the door down with a sledgehammer and sprayed them with bullets in the living room and bedrooms," said Saturnino Dominguez, the local deputy police commander.

    A fifth family member was injured in the attack.

    The strike that killed Beltran Leyva was a victory for President Felipe Calderon and his flagging drug war, but it could spur revenge attacks and fan fresh violence as rival cartels seek to take over territory from the drug lord's weakened cartel.

    Elsewhere in Mexico, suspected cartel hitmen fired at four houses in different locations around the Pacific port of Mazatlan on Tuesday, although no casualties were reported, a spokesman for the Sinaloa state prosecutor's office said.

    In separate attacks, hitmen shot dead the tourism secretary in the drug violence-plagued western state of Sinaloa and another gang opened fire on a restaurant in the northern border city of Piedras Negras where the state prosecutor was eating with other government officials and a U.S. mayor from the state of Texas, Mexican media said.

    BARBARITIES

    Despite the deployment of 49,000 troops across Mexico, broad daylight shootings are common and killings by drug gangs have soared to a record of well above 7,000 this year. Torture, decapitations and other atrocities have become common.

    The rising bloodshed has alarmed the U.S. government and hurt Mexico's image as a relatively stable destination for foreign investors and tourists.

    The attack on the family home in Tabasco came hours after the funeral of special forces marine Melquisedet Angulo, who died of wounds suffered during the strike that killed Beltran Leyva and five bodyguards last week.

    Calderon condemned the attack, saying: "We must not be frightened by the unscrupulous criminals who commit barbarities like this."

    Angulo had been lauded as a hero by the navy and his mother was promised a lifelong pension, making his family an identifiable target.

    Mexican soldiers and navy personnel usually wear masks during drug operations to keep their identities secret.

    A neighbor who heard Monday night's gunshots and saw several vehicles fleeing the scene said: "It all happened in less than a minute."

    Bodies of two of the victims were covered by sheets inside the Angulo house, where police found about 80 bullet casings.

    Dominguez said police suspected the killers were working with the Beltran Leyva cartel.

    (Additional reporting by Cyntia Barrera and Miguel AngelGutierrez; Writing by Jason Lange; Editing by Catherine Bremer and Kieran Murray)
    From what I gather the Mexican drug cartels have the money for extensive HUMINT networks, thus allowing them to conduct organized attacks on multiple targets. Perhaps they hired some military advisors on the sly. Probably some disgruntled American ex-military guys fed up with Uncle Sam's poor treatment of US war veterans. Military weapons like what the Federales have seized in their latest raids require instruction from an experienced operator if one is to use them properly. Such persons would usually be ex-military personnel.

    In a gang war situation, it's understandable if such is the case; anything that gives you a decisive advantage over your rivals is more than welcome. However, given the negative effects of the current drug war on Mexico's tourism and public safety, one is tempted to day that this is a low-level insurgency against the Mexican government - at least one that looks like just another big police action with the criminals playing dirty and being downright brutal. There is also the effect of making the Mexican government invest considerable funds and resources to combat the problem. This might make it weak in other areas. For example, the upkeep of public roads and airports might be delayed due to the reduction in available treasury funds. Increased taxation would be the only way to make up the difference. However, a significant part of the population might not support higher taxation rates, thus complicating the situation further.

    If the drug war goes on long enough, it can produce problems for the Mexican (and US) governments beyond that of criminal violence, as well as drain the finances of the Mexican government.

    This is just my own view of the problem. Surely there are members here with deeper experience and insight.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Crocodylus View Post
    Go here for the original: Drug gang revenge attack kills Mexico marine's family - Yahoo! News
    From what I gather the Mexican drug cartels have the money for extensive HUMINT networks, thus allowing them to conduct organized attacks on multiple targets. Perhaps they hired some military advisors on the sly. Probably some disgruntled American ex-military guys fed up with Uncle Sam's poor treatment of US war veterans. Military weapons like what the Federales have seized in their latest raids require instruction from an experienced operator if one is to use them properly. Such persons would usually be ex-military personnel.

    In a gang war situation, it's understandable if such is the case; anything that gives you a decisive advantage over your rivals is more than welcome. However, given the negative effects of the current drug war on Mexico's tourism and public safety, one is tempted to day that this is a low-level insurgency against the Mexican government - at least one that looks like just another big police action with the criminals playing dirty and being downright brutal. There is also the effect of making the Mexican government invest considerable funds and resources to combat the problem. This might make it weak in other areas. For example, the upkeep of public roads and airports might be delayed due to the reduction in available treasury funds. Increased taxation would be the only way to make up the difference. However, a significant part of the population might not support higher taxation rates, thus complicating the situation further.

    If the drug war goes on long enough, it can produce problems for the Mexican (and US) governments beyond that of criminal violence, as well as drain the finances of the Mexican government.

    This is just my own view of the problem. Surely there are members here with deeper experience and insight.

    Not sure if I have any particular experience or insight, but I am curious about some of what you have written. In particular I am wondering about the statement I have highlighted about US veterans. Do you actually have any evidence for this? A link perhaps? Or are you just makin' sh1t up? I know that there are instances of Vets joining gangs back in the US, but I didn't get the impression it had much to do with being disgruntled with the government.

    I take it you are aware that some former Mexican Army soldiers & Federales (including a small elite unit) have thrown in with drug syndicates or formed their own. Even so, you are assuming that a) it requires someone from the military to train someone on military-style weapons; and b) you need to use them 'properly' to be effective. That may be optimal, but I'm betting that a sufficiently large, motivated & brutal organization could still be pretty effective if not everyone used their weapons 'properly'.
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    • #3
      Under-the-table occurences

      Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
      Not sure if I have any particular experience or insight, but I am curious about some of what you have written. In particular I am wondering about the statement I have highlighted about US veterans. Do you actually have any evidence for this? A link perhaps? Or are you just makin' sh1t up? I know that there are instances of Vets joining gangs back in the US, but I didn't get the impression it had much to do with being disgruntled with the government.
      Most US veterans served their country out of patriotic duty rather than the expectation of material reward. Only a miniscule number would be disgruntled enough to join a drug cartel. These would get the impression that Uncle Sam does not care about them despite having risked their lives in the Service and so will join up with anyone offering money and other substantial benefits.

      Of course, anyone who joins a gang that might ultimately endanger their homeland is a traitor and a ˝, but when government-issued veteran's benefits are not much to live on, one can be tempted to alleviate practical difficulties through illicit means.

      Also, joining a drug cartel is not easy. A personal level of trust must be developed between the leadership and the rookie. Either they are 100% sure of the rookie's loyalty or not. Things are too hot for anyone to take on the risk of a potential traitor, so they vet for loyalty. Of course traitors will be eliminated as soon as they are discovered, but IMO drug cartels do not like to dispose of their members idly and so select carefully. Usually a personal go-to is how one gets inducted into the service of a drug cartel or other criminal organization.

      According to the GI Bill, the US government has to provide veterans with the benefits needed to reintegrate into civilian society. It was drawn up after WW2 to help returning veterans adapt to civilian life. Otherwise, if no resources were directed to this end, the soldiers could've had opportunities to wreak havoc. I've had similar fears regarding ex-gang members that have joined the US military and are just returning from their tours of duty.

      I just found this article from Associated Press. Might be just another Fed-bashing, but articles like this have been circulating for some time already.

      AP ENTERPRISE: Vets wait for GI Bill payments - Yahoo! News

      I take it you are aware that some former Mexican Army soldiers & Federales (including a small elite unit) have thrown in with drug syndicates or formed their own. Even so, you are assuming that a) it requires someone from the military to train someone on military-style weapons; and b) you need to use them 'properly' to be effective. That may be optimal, but I'm betting that a sufficiently large, motivated & brutal organization could still be pretty effective if not everyone used their weapons 'properly'.
      As if someone could use an SKS carbine or a Glock handgun without first learning how to load it and aim it?

      A strong sense of motivation is the first ingredient for success. Control of lucrative smuggling routes into the US is a big enough reason for the different drug cartels to duke it out with each other and the Mexican government.

      Assault rifles are easy enough to use, but car bombs and similar equipment need just a bit more skill to pull off. For knowledge of car bombs and the like, any terrorist organization can hire out an expert under the table. Even the Zetas would know a thing or two about car bombs, in addition to using rifles and other military gear. I figure the cartel hitmen would learn how to use firearms effectively without any instruction from someone with military experience, but the experience of the Zetas with firearms allows the cartel hitmen to get the most out of their pieces and enhance their effectiveness as a group.

      Also, the Zetas were founded by former members of the Grupo Aeromóvil de Fuerzas Especiales (Special Forces Airmobile Group), a Mexican Army division trained by US and other foreign military élites. In 1991 the founders of the Zetas deserted and began working for the Gulf Cartel.
      Last edited by Crocodylus; 24 Dec 09,, 04:51. Reason: Missing words ^^;

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Crocodylus View Post
        Of course, anyone who joins a gang that might ultimately endanger their homeland is a traitor and a ˝, but when government-issued veteran's benefits are not much to live on, one can be tempted to alleviate practical difficulties through illicit means.
        Why would a vet depend on "Veterans benefits" to live on? Only veterans benefits that come in cash for are disability payments.


        Its not like the government supports you for life after the military.

        The former mil person does what everyone else does. Change jobs.

        According to the GI Bill, the US government has to provide veterans with the benefits needed to reintegrate into civilian society. It was drawn up after WW2 to help returning veterans adapt to civilian life. Otherwise, if no resources were directed to this end, the soldiers could've had opportunities to wreak havoc. I've had similar fears regarding ex-gang members that have joined the US military and are just returning from their tours of duty.
        The GI Bill provides a stipend for college, nothing more. Not exactly sure why you need to reintegrate into civilian society. People in the military live and work around civilians. Its just a different job for some. 90% do the same jobs that civilians do. Go to an office, write reports on a computer, mechanic on vehicles,electricians, plumbers ect. Only a very few run around in the woods with guns.

        As if someone could use an SKS carbine or a Glock handgun without first learning how to load it and aim it?
        Yes you could. Its not rocket science. Doesn't take some ninja military guy to teach you how to do it. Thousands of people in the US learn how to use a gun without ever being in the military.

        Just remember with bullets "Pointy end goes in first"

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Crocodylus View Post
          Military weapons like what the Federales have seized in their latest raids require instruction from an experienced operator if one is to use them properly.
          No they don't, one requirement for a good battle rifle is simplicity of operation. Hence the popularity of the AK-47 in the 3rd world. Secondly, even civilian semi auto versions can spray and pray a huge amount of lead in a short time.

          The fact that the killers used a sledge hammer to break in and do a dynamic entry points to corrupt law enforcement where a sledge hammer is the ram of choice for departments not wanting to build or buy a dedicated ram.

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          • #6
            While the US is in deep freeze...

            Originally posted by zraver View Post
            No they don't, one requirement for a good battle rifle is simplicity of operation. Hence the popularity of the AK-47 in the 3rd world. Secondly, even civilian semi auto versions can spray and pray a huge amount of lead in a short time.
            Looks like I'll need to spend a bit more time around guns. It's been a really long time since I last went to to the shooting range.

            And perhaps the AK-47 is circulating widely in Mexico as well, even though M-16s can be bought as well and are probably easier to obtain.

            The fact that the killers used a sledge hammer to break in and do a dynamic entry points to corrupt law enforcement where a sledge hammer is the ram of choice for departments not wanting to build or buy a dedicated ram.
            Hmm. Interesting. Wouldn't it have been better to use a small explosive charge or a gunshot to break the door lock, instead of a sledge? IMO it would've done the job faster, thus giving the victims less time to react.

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