is Obama trying to backdoor the 2nd Amendment?

[zraver]

Given the flat out lack of any chance of domestic gun laws passing and with the Supreme Court expected to decide the Chicago case this session is the Obama administration tryign to use international diplomacy and treaty to unravel the 2nd Amendment?


U.S. reverses stance on treaty to regulate arms trade | Reuters

and this follows a move in August to slip in CIFTA

THE OAS TREATY

[Roosveltrepub]

no

[zraver]

No as in no he isn't (not doing) or no as is NO he isn't (not going to be allowed).

Both those treaties carry with them stipulations that will affect American gun owners.

[ErrantVenture11]

Thankfully, there are more pro-gun Democrats in the Senate and House than people realize. I don't see this passing the Senate or House without updated language to protect private citizens who reload their own ammo or work on their weapons. This is assuming that members of both parties READ the damned thing, which apparently they are too busy to do.

I wish I could tell my professors that I was much too busy to read my works for Humanities, but that's OK because I went to SparkNotes.com and learned all the important parts .

[ZekeJones]

I would think that Obama would know better to try and slip something through using something like this. If the NRA wouldn't raise holy hell and bring attention to it, the right would.
If done before the '10 elections, trying to backdoor something like this would hurt the Dems and give the Reps some needed ammo (pun intended) during the campaigns.

[Roosveltrepub]

No as in no he isn't (not doing) or no as is NO he isn't (not going to be allowed).

Both those treaties carry with them stipulations that will affect American gun owners.

AS in no he isn't
In the first piece what's talked about is the export of guns, specifically into unstable areas where they cause great suffering. It also speaks to the US veto power.
The second piece was just wack a do.

Inter-American Convention Against Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms (CIFTA)

[zraver]

AS in no he isn't
In the first piece what's talked about is the export of guns, specifically into unstable areas where they cause great suffering. It also speaks to the US veto power.
The second piece was just wack a do.

Inter-American Convention Against Illicit Manufacturing of and Trafficking in Firearms (CIFTA)

All form your link (mine inside the)

1. "Illicit manufacturing": the manufacture or assembly of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials:

a. from components or parts illicitly trafficked; or

b. without a license from a competent governmental authority of the State Party where the manufacture or assembly takes place; or

(what is manufacturing or assembly?)

4. "Ammunition": the complete round or its components, including cartridge cases, primers, propellant powder, bullets, or projectiles that are used in any firearm.

5. "Explosives": any substance or article that is made, manufactured, or used to produce an explosion, detonation, or propulsive or pyrotechnic effect, except:

(Self loaders beware)

ARTICLE XI
Recordkeeping

States Parties shall assure the maintenance for a reasonable time of the information necessary to trace and identify illicitly manufactured and illicitly trafficked firearms to enable them to comply with their obligations under Articles XIII and XVII.

(Looks like registration to me)

ARTICLE XIII
Exchange of Information

1. States Parties shall exchange among themselves, in conformity with their respective domestic laws and applicable treaties, relevant information on matters such as:

a. authorized producers, dealers, importers, exporters, and, whenever possible, carriers of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials;

(so after registration comes addition to an international database if your a cop or licensed concealed carry holder?)

ARTICLE XIX
Extradition

1. This article shall apply to the offenses referred to in Article IV of this Convention.

2. Each of the offenses to which this article applies shall be deemed to be included as an extraditable offense in any extradition treaty in force between or among the States Parties. The States Parties undertake to include such offenses as extraditable offenses in every extradition treaty to be concluded between or among them.

So an Illegal breaks into your home, you shoot him and Mexico issues a warrant for your arrest.

[Roosveltrepub]

Did you read the defintion of illicit in the treaty. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18...2----000-.html What exactly changes domestically?Read article 4 those are the offense that could result in extradition. This is a big fat non issue. You really are barking at the moon with this one

[Blue]

Second Amendment Freedom- Firearms Rights: UN To Push For A Gun Control Treaty- Obama Agrees

IRIN | In-depth | Guns Out of Control: the continuing threat of small arms | GLOBAL: Interview with Rebecca Peters, Director of IANSA

Obama Revives Talk of U.N. Gun Control

Rebecca Peters has been working for a global gun ban for years. Public enemy #1 of freedom loving people everywhere as far as far as I'm concerned.

This has been a long time battle that John Bolton has been warning about for years and the NRA even longer.

[zraver]

Did you read the defintion of illicit in the treaty. US CODE: Title 18,922. Unlawful acts What exactly changes domestically?Read article 4 those are the offense that could result in extradition. This is a big fat non issue. You really are barking at the moon with this one

The treaty does not use the American definition of illicit but has its own language.

ARTICLE I
Definitions

For the purposes of this Convention, the following definitions shall apply:

1. "Illicit manufacturing": the manufacture or assembly of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials:

a. from components or parts illicitly trafficked; or

b. without a license from a competent governmental authority of the State Party where the manufacture or assembly takes place; or

c. without marking the firearms that require marking at the time of manufacturing.

(The treaty would require all sales to go through licensed dealers and thus by extension register gun owners since the treaty also requires)

ARTICLE XI
Recordkeeping


States Parties shall assure the maintenance for a reasonable time of the information necessary to trace and identify illicitly manufactured and illicitly trafficked firearms to enable them to comply with their obligations under Articles XIII and XVII.

[Crocodylus]

A tall order

The treaty does not use the American definition of illicit but has its own language.

ARTICLE I
Definitions

For the purposes of this Convention, the following definitions shall apply:

1. "Illicit manufacturing": the manufacture or assembly of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials:

a. from components or parts illicitly trafficked; or

b. without a license from a competent governmental authority of the State Party where the manufacture or assembly takes place; or

c. without marking the firearms that require marking at the time of manufacturing.

(The treaty would require all sales to go through licensed dealers and thus by extension register gun owners since the treaty also requires)

ARTICLE XI
Recordkeeping


States Parties shall assure the maintenance for a reasonable time of the information necessary to trace and identify illicitly manufactured and illicitly trafficked firearms to enable them to comply with their obligations under Articles XIII and XVII.

Will it even be possible to enforce these laws and have a high prosecution rate for offenses?

The Feds could probably put restrictions on the sale of materials needed, such as specialty steels, but this would result in the side-effect of hamstringing aerospace companies and other big-ticket manufacturers that use them on a regular basis. Perhaps prohibiting the sale of said materials under a certain quantity and requiring sellers to jot down the name and address of each buyer is the best the Feds might be able to do at the moment. Outside of that, a shitload of money will have to be spent to make those laws work.

I guess the stimulus package was much larger than what Congress knows what to do with :))

[Blue]

I really don't care what the bill says. I live under the constitution of the US and if politicians would quit trying to subvert and bastardize it, we would be just fine.

One thing for sure that I would fight against with my last breath would be putting ANY US citizen, living in the US, under ANY KIND of UN treaty, esp one that subverts our own constitution. Its ludicrous and stupid and if it gets adopted I hope that any American that supports it gets exactly what they deserve.

[diablo49]

Whatever laws are passed, it doesn't change that they have to be enforced to be effective. How many will actually enforce it? How far would any democratic government go to enforce it?

[Roosveltrepub]

Whatever laws are passed, it doesn't change that they have to be enforced to be effective. How many will actually enforce it? How far would any democratic government go to enforce it?

I would hope we would obey and enforce our own laws. Since we are insisting on 100 percent approval it will only include what we want. I'd also think the illicit trafficking of weapons across international borders would be a citizens concern not a left wing or right wing issue. Weapons aren'tbrought in illegally to prop up democracies they are needed by criminal cartels and those looking to fight a legitimate goverment or those looking to arm up for a crackdown the way Kenya? tried to do with that shipment of chinese arms last year.

[zraver]

I would hope we would obey and enforce our own laws. Since we are insisting on 100 percent approval it will only include what we want. I'd also think the illicit trafficking of weapons across international borders would be a citizens concern not a left wing or right wing issue. Weapons aren'tbrought in illegally to prop up democracies they are needed by criminal cartels and those looking to fight a legitimate goverment or those looking to arm up for a crackdown the way Kenya? tried to do with that shipment of chinese arms last year.

The problem is most arms being used in Mexico your obvious North American inference not from the US but from the Mexican Army and points south. Hopefully in the Chicago case the 2nd Amendment will be incorporated and it will be a dead issue.