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  • France: "Autistic Tories have castrated Britain in Europe"

    The Conservatives were accused by the French government tonight of "castrating" Britain's position within the EU by adopting an "autistic" approach that would take Britain off the radar.

    Speaking to the Guardian, Pierre Lellouche, France's Europe minister, described as "pathetic" the Tories' EU plans announced today, warning they would not succeed "for a minute".

    Giving vent to frustration across the EU, which has so far only been expressed in private, Lellouche – who said he was reflecting Nicolas Sarkozy's "sadness and regret" – accused William Hague, the shadow foreign secretary, of a "bizarre autism" in their discussions.

    He said: "They have one line and they just repeat one line. It is a very bizarre sense of autism."

    Lellouche, one of the most Anglophile members of Sarkozy's government, made his remarkable intervention after David Cameron outlined a fresh Tory approach to the EU in the wake of the full ratification of the Lisbon treaty.

    A future Conservative government would seek to strengthen British sovereignty and repatriate a series of powers over social and employment legislation, the Tory leader said.

    Cameron said he was not seeking an immediate "bust-up" with the EU, and would allow the repatriation of powers negotiations to last as long as five years.

    But that position was not enough for the Tory MEP Daniel Hannan, who quit his role as the party's legal affairs spokesman in Europe, saying he intended to fight for referendums to enable Britain to become "self-governing".

    France's centre-right government condemned Cameron's plans, saying that they would marginalise Britain within the EU.

    Abandoning all diplomatic niceties, Lellouche said: "It's pathetic. It's just very sad to see Britain, so important in Europe, just cutting itself out from the rest and disappearing from the radar map …. This is a culture of opposition … It is the result of a long period of opposition. I know they will come back, but I hope the trip will be short." He said Cameron's approach was in line with the Tories' decision to abandon the main centre-right EPP grouping in the European parliament, of which Sarkozy's UMP party is a member.

    "They are doing what they have done in the European parliament. They have essentially castrated your UK influence in the European parliament," he said.

    Lellouche said he has told Hague personally that his position was a "waste of time for all of us".

    "I have told William Hague: go away for two to three years, in your political economic situation you're going to be all by your self and you'll come back. Go ahead and do it. That is my message to them … You want to be marginalised? Well, you go for it. But it's a waste of time for all of us," the French minister said.

    Lellouche made clear the Tories had no hope of securing support for their plans. "It's not going to happen for a minute. Nobody is going to indulge in rewriting [treaties for] many, many years. Nobody is going to play with the institutions again. It's going to be take it or leave it and they should be honest and say that," he said. "It is a time of tumultuous waters all around us. Wars, terrorism, proliferation, Afghanistan, energy with Russia, massive immigration, economic crisis. It is time when the destiny of Europe is being defined – whether or not we will exist as a third of the world's GDP capable of fighting it out on climate, on trade, on every … issue on the surface of the Earth.

    "We need to be united, otherwise we will be wiped out and marginalised. None of us can do it alone. Whether you're big or small, the lesson is the same. And [Britain's] risk is one of marginalisation. Irrelevance." He explained: "Finally we have institutional package, but it took 15 years of looking at our navel and getting everybody bored to death with sterile debate".

    In a sign of France's determination to resist the Tory plans to opt out of key EU legislation, Lellouche warned the French would attempt to reduce Britain's EU budget rebate which will be up for negotiation during the next parliament.

    He pointed out that France is a net EU contributor to the tune of €5bn (£4.5bn), unlike Britain which receives a rebate.

    "If we get a government that is ferociously anti European that will vote down this kind of legislation then I think the relationship is going to be very difficult. As we enter the next phase one of the issues we have to discuss midterm is of course finances. France is a net contributor to the tune of €5bn a year, of which €1.5bn is the same as British rebate. That should tell you quite a bit huh?" he said.

    Cameron will be angered by the attack, and what it implies for Tory relations with the rest of Europe although in the short term he will be more concerned to ensure his strategy of abandoning a referendum on the Lisbon treaty does not provoke cries of betrayal on his backbenches.

    Hague reacted to the French criticism by insisting that Lellouche's comments did not represent the true reception of the Tories' plans in Europe.

    "That is not how we are seen across Europe," he told BBC2's Newsnight, adding his party had established good relations with Sarkozy's party.

    "I don't think you will find that's representative of the reaction in Paris or other European capitals," he added.
    France: 'autistic Tories have castrated UK in Europe' | Politics | The Guardian

    What Lellouche doesn't know is that Great Britain is still very much a superpower, although a secret one now, thanks to its "special relationship" with the US.

    They don't need Europe!

  • #2
    Oscar, the title has a typo, Tories not Stories.

    On the piece itself, as moronic as Hague is this is a remarkably ill-advised outburst from someone you'd expect to have more diplomatic skills.

    The Tories ARE autistic, but it's his job to sweetalk them and represent France, not make whiney political statements.
    Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
    - John Stuart Mill.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by crooks View Post
      The Tories ARE autistic, but it's his job to sweetalk them and represent France, not make whiney political statements.
      Except we have a real problem there, since Britain is among the three main European powers, that means they can make it extremely hard for Europe to be a functionning body. It becomes a serious issue when one of the countries that is supposed to be at the helm acts like a spoiled and irascible child .

      Lellouche is certainly the most ardent anglophile in the government. Thats not about teasing them, thats a genuine warning from a friend not to do stupid things.

      But Britain's behaviour towards Europe is quite ironic, they humiliated themselves (2 French vetos and one referendum to let them in) to enter the club after having discarded it as an organization with no future, and now they make it look like Europe is unbearable to them. They can leave, no one will regret them.

      Comment


      • #4
        I can understand the UKs reluctance to enter the EU. Its true the EU is a better way for European countries to remain relevant-but unity of convenience (Which is what the EU is) is a very poor long term method. Europeans don't have an identity as "European" they are "x nationality". The EU seems to be much more a union of Europe's elites, and those elites don't always agree either.

        On a side note does the use of the word "autistic" seem off here? Does it mean something different in the UK/France then it does here in the US (in the US the only way I've heard it used is in reference to the people who have autism) ?

        Comment


        • #5
          Who cares what the french and germans think? Maybe the UK should go back to its old traditions.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Oscar View Post
            Except we have a real problem there, since Britain is among the three main European powers, that means they can make it extremely hard for Europe to be a functionning body. It becomes a serious issue when one of the countries that is supposed to be at the helm acts like a spoiled and irascible child .

            Lellouche is certainly the most ardent anglophile in the government. Thats not about teasing them, thats a genuine warning from a friend not to do stupid things.

            But Britain's behaviour towards Europe is quite ironic, they humiliated themselves (2 French vetos and one referendum to let them in) to enter the club after having discarded it as an organization with no future, and now they make it look like Europe is unbearable to them. They can leave, no one will regret them.
            From my own view I'm glad there's a bit of friction between the big three - If they all agree they'll steamroll the rest of us, so the people of Ireland, the Netherlands, Denmark, Sweden etc thank the Brits for their opposition to eurofederalism ;).

            On them leaving, it's an interesting concept, I personally don't think they've got the balls but you never know....
            Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.
            - John Stuart Mill.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Oscar View Post
              France: 'autistic Tories have castrated UK in Europe' | Politics | The Guardian

              What Lellouche doesn't know is that Great Britain is still very much a superpower, although a secret one now, thanks to its "special relationship" with the US.

              They don't need Europe!

              Continental Europe is the net beneficiary in trade with Britain. So, as implausible as it sounds, an independent UK can actually dictate terms to EU bureaucracy.

              Comment


              • #8
                Calling someone autistic...isn't that like insensitive to retards or something?
                "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                • #9
                  Gunnut im shocked...

                  They aren't retarded there SPECIAL

                  Get with the lingo you... you... American of non English speaking background
                  The best part of repentance is the sin

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by indus creed View Post
                    Continental Europe is the net beneficiary in trade with Britain. So, as implausible as it sounds, an independent UK can actually dictate terms to EU bureaucracy.
                    If you mean that Britain is the market where Europe sells its good and therefore could impose its own regulation to Brussels, you have to take into perspective the size of each economy. It's always the bigger one who dictates its terms.

                    And even with a more probable case of "receiving maket" for lack of other words, like the US, you don't see Washington telling Eurocrats what they should do.

                    If they withdraw from the political structure while staying in the free market zone they will still be obliged to abide by Brussel's harmonisation rules, but this time without any kind of influence in the process.

                    If they reject any form of constraints that come from Brussels, that is if they leave the free trade zone and the political structure altogether, it amounts to cutting both legs and arms just for the trunk to breathe freely. ;) Because Britain is deeply integrated in the European economy, the overwhelming majority of its trade is with the EU.

                    Britain is not important enough as a market to blackmail Brussels.

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                    • #11
                      They aren't retarded there SPECIAL
                      Speaking from experience?
                      To sit down with these men and deal with them as the representatives of an enlightened and civilized people is to deride ones own dignity and to invite the disaster of their treachery - General Matthew Ridgway

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                        Calling someone autistic...isn't that like insensitive to retards or something?
                        Probably, but it doesn't even make sense to me. I mean is he using it as a more politically correct version of retard?

                        And strictly speaking Autistic people aren't retards (who have a low iq) autistic people usually have a high iq, they just have no game.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by troung View Post
                          Speaking from experience?
                          Oh come on.. this site is like 50% American, its not like they actually speak English
                          The best part of repentance is the sin

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Oscar View Post
                            If you mean that Britain is the market where Europe sells its good and therefore could impose its own regulation to Brussels, you have to take into perspective the size of each economy. It's always the bigger one who dictates its terms.

                            And even with a more probable case of "receiving maket" for lack of other words, like the US, you don't see Washington telling Eurocrats what they should do.

                            If they withdraw from the political structure while staying in the free market zone they will still be obliged to abide by Brussel's harmonisation rules, but this time without any kind of influence in the process.

                            If they reject any form of constraints that come from Brussels, that is if they leave the free trade zone and the political structure altogether, it amounts to cutting both legs and arms just for the trunk to breathe freely. ;) Because Britain is deeply integrated in the European economy, the overwhelming majority of its trade is with the EU.

                            Britain is not important enough as a market to blackmail Brussels.
                            The one who wants access ascends to the terms to the one who gives access. No matter how large or small the market as long as they are able to limit that access and not a banana republic.

                            You are underestimating the ability of the Uk to dis-integrate from the market. When you have nothing left to loose and your economy is already collapsing the steps you couldn't take when you were hopeful are much easier to follow through.

                            Theoretically all the UK has to do is have the majority of the parliament vote on the issue and have the sovereign sign it and ipso facto they are out... No referendum nothing.
                            Originally from Sochi, Russia.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by theravenseldon View Post
                              Probably, but it doesn't even make sense to me. I mean is he using it as a more politically correct version of retard?
                              "Autistic" in Europe means not only the disease but figuratively speaking someone who completely ignores a certain issue. To take this example in this thread, Tories completely ignore and stubbornly refuse to talk about Europe.

                              Like an autistic person. :)

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