Subs

[tankie]

I have just watched a tv prog about the USS Pennsylvania , the biggest sub in the western world , and all i can say is ,,,,,,,,IMPRESSED FAB PIECE OF KIT . Anyone know how the Astute class would compare with them , ps this aint a Vs thing , im not too sure about naval sub warfare , c,mon R/B show me your vast knowledge ;)

[Dectilion]

it would be an illogical comparison. The Pennsylvania is an Ohio class, her primary role is nuclear deterrence. To put it simply, she sits in the middle of the ocean and waits for the order to fire.

The Astute class is a fleet sub, comparable to the American Los Angeles class, to which they are superior, and to the US Virginia class, to which they are arguably inferior (i don't know enough to make that determination)

The Pennsylvania is comparable to the British Vanguard class, the French Triomphant class, and the Russian Delta Class.

[RustyBattleship]

, im not too sure about naval sub warfare , c,mon R/B show me your vast knowledge ;)

Sorry, LBNSY was not a Submarine yard (though we did work on many of them). When it came time to design modifications to the surface support equipment from Polaris/Poseidon missiles to Trident, the best we could come up with was Trident C-4 as the equipment was showing its age.

I did draw up a feasibility study to modify the equipment for the much larger D-5, but we found the Surface Support Vessel and the Fish Hook Vessel to be in very poor shape with nearly a half of the original thickness of steel plating deteriorated away.

[tankie]

it would be an illogical comparison. The Pennsylvania is an Ohio class, her primary role is nuclear deterrence. To put it simply, she sits in the middle of the ocean and waits for the order to fire.

The Astute class is a fleet sub, comparable to the American Los Angeles class, to which they are superior, and to the US Virginia class, to which they are arguably inferior (i don't know enough to make that determination)

The Pennsylvania is comparable to the British Vanguard class, the French Triomphant class, and the Russian Delta Class.

Hmmm , i thought ALL nuke subs were a deterrant , what i was getting at without googling or wiki , was , size , compliments , armaments ,etc etc , that sort of thing , i was hoping to tap someones knowledge of these fab craft from a hands on factor :)

[StevoJH]

You have two main types of Nuclear Submarines SSN's and SSBN's.

You have SSN's Such as the Trafalgar, Virginia and Astute class, they fire torpedoes and cruise missiles and carry out the same roles as their conventional predecessors carried out in the past. Btw, the probably isnt much difference between the Astute and Virginia, they carry the same total number of weapons, except Virginia has VL tubes to launch cruise missiles in addition to torpedo tubes.

SSBN's are the nuclear deterent, they carry the SLBM's the countries use to deter other countries from acting agressively.

[TopHatter]

Good summary StevoJH :)

There's a 3rd, much more rarefied class of subs, the SSG/SSGN,

These are submarines whose primary weapon is the cruise missile, plus torpedoes. The cruise missiles can be antiship, land-attack, conventional or nuclear-tipped, depending on the nationality and the mission.

The Oscar II class Kursk was an SSGN, for example.

The SSG/SSGN was rather popular with the Soviets, as it was a dandy way to bring massive anti-carrier blue water firepower into the game without actually building aircraft carriers...something the Soviets had neither the funds nor the expertise to do.

(It's telling that the Soviet/Russian carriers that did get built carried massive cruise missile firepower to compensate for their anemic airgroups...but then again the Soviets never really intended for their carriers to have the same mission as the American CVBGs anyway)

The USN briefly got the SSG bug with the Regulus program in the 1950's but only as a delivery method for nuclear weapons against ground targets. After the development of the Submarine Launched Ballistic Missile (SLBM) the SSG concept was abandoned....

...until the success of the Tomahawk cruise missile and the desire to NOT scrap 4 of Pennsylvania's oldest sisters (due to treaty requirements) let to the 2002-2008 conversions of Ohio, Michigan, Georgia and Florida to SSGN's, carrying massive Tomahawk loads (154 per sub!) in place of their SLBM's.

Unique to these SSGN Johnny-come-latelys is their added utility as SpecOp carriers (up to 66 additional personnel), complete with swimmer lockout chambers and the ability to carry SpecOp midget submarines and an externally mounted "dry dock shelter".

[tankie]

Thanks lads ;)