To OOE/Sniper/Ray: Birth of the "Western Way of War"

[Praxus]

There have of course been many claims about the starting point of the particular western way of war. Some people say it started with Alexander, others at Delium by the Boeotians, or by Epaminondas with his campaign to destroy the culture of Sparta as apposed to the armies of Sparta. I am curious what do you view as the birth of the "Western Way of War", or is it disingenuous to suggest there is a particular western way of war that permiates through Western Democracys?

[Officer of Engineers]

Farming.

[Praxus]

LOL, not exactly what I was looking for;)

[Ray]

The formal organised armies, to the best of my knowledge and recall, was started by Napoleon with his levee en masse.

This made warfare a national effort as is understood today.

Earlier, wars were campaigns led and oraganised by individual nobles, chieftains, etc in the name of their Sovreign. There apparently was no involvement or support as a Nation per se, except, maybe emotional to that noble leading the war.

[Officer of Engineers]

LOL, not exactly what I was looking for;)

I know that was a smart ass answer but it's also happens to be the right one. You're asking how did Western warfare evolved the way it did.

I suggest two Books, Face of Battle and History of Warfare by John Keegan. In it, Mr Keegan made an observation on how farmboys fight and how cowboys fight (my words). Translation: how does agricultural based civilization fight and how do normadic tribes fight? Or in milspeak, terrain oriented objectives or force oriented objectives.

For farmers, a plot of land is life. Take it, own it, and deny it to the enemy or you starve. For cowboys who do not own land but depends on the herd. You ride the enemy down or he will ride you down.

Strategically, we never gotten over the terrain orientation. Witness two different battles of Baghdad. We considered the job done when Saddam gave up Baghdad. The Mongols didn't considered the job done until they butchered every man, woman, child, and dog.

[Bill]

Prior to the advent of farming there was no particular reason to defend any one particular patch of land from an invader. It was easier to just move.

Once farming was perfected, the control of crops was the primary impetus of war and invasion.

As far as modern warfare, WWII is the root of almost everything we do today.

Strategic bombing, CAS, blitzkrieg, combined arms, the amphibious assault, etc, etc. were all either conceptualized or validated during WWII.

[Bill]

"Strategically, we never gotten over the terrain orientation. Witness two different battles of Baghdad. We considered the job done when Saddam gave up Baghdad. The Mongols didn't considered the job done until they butchered every man, woman, child, and dog."

Therein lies the difference between a force oriented and a terrain oriented mission.

Using ODS as an example, the US Marine and Arab forces were all assigned terrain oriented objectives, while the US VII and XVIII corps were largely tasked with force oriented objectives(though there were some key terrain features that still needed to be secured).

[Praxus]

Agriculture isn't paticularly western. I was looking more paticularly for the place, or peoples that started it. Sniper makes a good point, most of what we consider western warfare today was created or validated in WW2.

[Ray]

Praxus,

There are supposed to be 9 Revolutions in Military Affairs.

My scanner is not functioning or else I would have given them to you.

Google and see if it meets your requirement.

[Officer of Engineers]

Agriculture isn't paticularly western. I was looking more paticularly for the place, or peoples that started it. Sniper makes a good point, most of what we consider western warfare today was created or validated in WW2.

No, but it does explain alot. Look at Europe. It's mainly one set of farmers against another. Look at China. Farmers against cowboys.

[TopHatter]

Agriculture isn't paticularly western. I was looking more paticularly for the place, or peoples that started it. Sniper makes a good point, most of what we consider western warfare today was created or validated in WW2.

You could take it a bit further back to WW I in some cases:

Tanks
Airplanes
Machine Guns - Used earlier but not with the numbers or bodycount of WWI
Chemical Warfare
Submarine Warfare
Strategic Bombing (Not that actual war industry was hit, but it was destruction far away from the actual battle lines)

[Bill]

A lot of stuff was conceptualized prior to WWII, and even during WWI, you are correct.

However all that theory and promise of technology was doctrinized and validated(or abandoned) as a direct result of WWII.