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  • Haha Pelosi was right

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    Democrats have lashed out at former vice-president Dick Cheney, accusing him of abusing his power, amid reports he ordered the CIA to withhold information from Congress about a secret counter-terrorism program.

    Lawmakers vowed to hold hearings on the nature of the alleged top-secret program and efforts to keep members of the US legislature in the dark.

    "This is a question of whether the former vice-president of the United States denied certain sensitive information to the intelligence leaders in Congress. That is not acceptable," said a senior member of the US Senate, Democrat Kent Conrad, who called the alleged failure to notify Congress about the program "a serious breach".

    Speaking on Sunday on CNN television, Conrad said Central Intelligence Agency notification to key members of Congress about its secret programs "is required by law. That's a serious matter."

    Meanwhile Representative Anna Eshoo, a senior member of the House Intelligence Committee, said she would call for the panel to hire an outside counsel to investigate the issue.

    "We have to know who gave the order for this, who gave the order to conceal this, where did they draw the money for this," the Democrat told the Washington Post in reports published on Sunday.

    Eshoo said the committee may have to use its subpoena power to interview some officials who oversaw intelligence issues during the Bush administration.

    Officials were vague about the precise nature of the highly secret program.

    But an intelligence official speaking to the Washington Post said the project remained in the planning stages and never crossed the agency's threshold for reporting to the administration and congressional overseers.

    Two former agency officials told the daily it involved a series of proposals designed to provide US intelligence agencies with a "needed capability" - without providing details as to what was meant.

    The latest proposal was aired in the spring of 2008 but was not carried out, the officials said, although they told the Post it did not involve interrogations of detainees or surveillance of US-based communications.

    Both were highly controversial practices that have been roundly condemned in many quarters, as the United States prosecuted its war on terrorism during the George W Bush administration.

    The New York Times, which broke the story about the role alleged to have been played by Cheney in keeping the CIA program under wraps, reported that CIA chief Leon Panetta ended the program when he learned of its existence on June 23.

    Panetta is reported to have revealed Cheney's role in a closed briefing one day later to the Senate and House intelligence committees.

    "Because this program never went fully operational and hadn't been briefed as Panetta thought it should have been, his decision to kill it was neither difficult nor controversial," an intelligence official told the newspaper, speaking on condition of anonymity.

    News of the alleged program came as lawmakers from both President Barack Obama's Democratic Party and opposition Republicans are in bitter dispute over whether the CIA informed Congress adequately and comprehensively about sensitive programs.

    In May, Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi charged that the US spy agency misled lawmakers in 2002 about interrogation techniques widely seen as torture, including "waterboarding", a simulated drowning method used on terror suspects.

    On Sunday, senior Republican senator Judd Gregg conceded that in his view, "if somebody told the CIA not to inform the appropriate members of Congress on information, that's wrong".

    Nevertheless Gregg said: "That isn't a reason to disassemble the CIA and make them a whipping child in the middle."

    The Republican lawmaker said the controversy pointed to a "continued attack on the CIA and our intelligence gathering organisations" which, he said, "is undermining the morale and capacity of those organisations to gather intelligence".

  • #2
    And you believe this tripe? And Pelosi is right. The HAHA is on you my friend. Nothing more then a cover up to protect Pelosi, We know shes an idiot, they know shes an idiot, why protect her from what we and the public already know. Notice Obama has not much to say about it becuase if the closet door opens its not just going to be Republican skeletons falling out. The whole truth or no truth at all.:));)
    IMO, This will disappear just like Pelosi's did, swept under the carpet, but a moment in the media for required effect no doubt. Too late Dems, the people already know shes an idiot that talks ka ka.:P
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 13 Jul 09,, 17:53.
    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

    Comment


    • #3
      Pelosi claimed not to of been told about waterboarsing

      Obama just isn't going to be allowed to just move on to many laws were broken. That whole unitary Executive theory they based all the illegal acts needs it's day in court. What's disgusting to me is the guy is all over the TV slamming Obama months ago for making us less safe. His insistence that the Executive office could break the law is what was the real danger to the republic not closing down some illegal program. I think we'd be better served in some ways just moving on but then what's to stop a repeat?
      Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
      ~Ronald Reagan

      Comment


      • #4
        I think we'd be better served in some ways just moving on but then what's to stop a repeat?


        *If you can recall, the dreaded Bush administration is past tense. The world can sleep soundly again and so can the terrorists.:))

        what's to stop a repeat?

        Are you stating that the Democrats might break a law, bend a truth, or even flat out "LIE"?

        Heaven forbid that EVER happening.
        Last edited by Dreadnought; 13 Jul 09,, 18:47.
        Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

        Comment


        • #5
          Pelosi claimed not to of been told about waterboarsing.

          *No, She claimed that the CIA "LIED" to her and Congress and that she was never told when in fact she was. Big difference when pointing legal accusations at one of the institutions that protect this country and its security.;)

          Ergo, you have this article to "help" take the publics/voters minds off Pelosi, her accusations and the embarassment the Democrats suffered over it. Shes an idiot.
          Last edited by Dreadnought; 13 Jul 09,, 18:55.
          Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
            I think we'd be better served in some ways just moving on but then what's to stop a repeat?


            *If you can recall, the dreaded Bush administration is past tense. The world can sleep soundly again and so can the terrorists.:))
            A repeat of the disregard for the Constitution. The Unitary Executive theory needs to be trounced in court. The executive is not the law or above it.
            Seems to me all those Talaban and Al Queda in western Pakistan sleep less soundly. I know there has been an uptick of attacks in Africa but, a lot of newly trained killers are leaving Iraq. Those foreign fighters who poured into Iraq are now IED experts and fanning back out... Bush/Cheney spreading freedom everywhere
            Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
            ~Ronald Reagan

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
              Pelosi claimed not to of been told about waterboarsing.

              *No, She claimed that the CIA "LIED" to her and Congress and that she was never told when in fact she was. Big difference when pointing legal accusations at one of the institutions that protect this country and its security.;)

              Ergo, you have this article to "help" take the publics/voters minds off Pelosi, her accusations and the embarassment the Democrats suffered over it. Shes an idiot.
              So Cheney insisted the CIA break the law and not tell Congress about an illegal program because he was protecting Pelosi? I though her complaint was they lied about water-boarding? This is a different illegal program they weren't told about so, the lie was one of omission and she was ignorant of it till now. I dont think she was at all vindicated. Another reason to damn Darth Cheney isn't the same as a defense of the Speaker it only makes the doubt more plausible.
              Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
              ~Ronald Reagan

              Comment


              • #8
                "The executive is not the law or above it."

                *They have the sole responsibility of taking actions that protect this country and its citizenry and intrests. That is not to say they can break the law but history has shown long before the end of the twentieth century that it has been done many times before and if we were to look very closely at conflicts past it will readily reveal itself. Do you really want to look in depth or just enough to point the finger the opposite direction such as at Bush and Cheyney?

                "The Unitary Executive theory needs to be trounced in court."

                *So do any kind of rights to terrorists!

                *You have a better chance at ammending the Constitution before any US president gives up that right. It is his/hers and theirs alone and it is there for a reason wether you like it or not. He/She is the person in that office, they make the call. That is partly to ensure that no private interests interdict or have impression upon Congress and its rulings. It is a fail safe.

                "Seems to me all those Talaban and Al Queda in western Pakistan sleep less soundly."

                *They havent been sleeping so sound since "W" started those operations long long ago. Obama had zero to do with it but alas, he still gets the credit because of the Bush bashers.;) Silly us for already knowing that.

                "Those foreign fighters who poured into Iraq are now IED experts and fanning back out... Bush/Cheney spreading freedom everywhere."

                *They were IED experts long before they even left Iran,Pakistan and Syria with Iranian support and weaponry to enter Iraq.;)

                "Bush/Cheney spreading freedom everywhere."

                *You mean like to terrorists being held in GITMO?
                *You mean like to Iranian (5) intelligence people that stired the Shiite insurgents with funding and training against our troops who were just released in Iraq due to Iraqi pressure on Obama and the administration.

                *Sounds to me more like the other way around. Oh, thats right six months later and its still Bush/Cheyneys fault.

                I take ownership of a used car,house,boat, etc etc after 30 days and all of its troubles,flaws and damages, liens and liabilities. Seems this administration and its Congressenal leadership cannot take ownership even after this amount of time. Go figure.
                Last edited by Dreadnought; 13 Jul 09,, 19:26.
                Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
                  So Cheney insisted the CIA break the law and not tell Congress about an illegal program because he was protecting Pelosi? I though her complaint was they lied about water-boarding? This is a different illegal program they weren't told about so, the lie was one of omission and she was ignorant of it till now. I dont think she was at all vindicated. Another reason to damn Darth Cheney isn't the same as a defense of the Speaker it only makes the doubt more plausible.
                  "But an intelligence official speaking to the Washington Post said the project remained in the planning stages and never crossed the agency's threshold for reporting to the administration and congressional overseers."

                  Letter of the Law. Who interpitates it? Thats right, the White House staff lawyers and the Justice Department and probably a few others as well. Not Pelosi nor Reid or any other Congress member so therefore making assnine accusations that beget letter of the law is plain out assnine grandstanding and a smokescreen intended to relieve Pelosi of the publics skepticism. Her lies should be admission not ommision, Democrats creatively beget that point at will. They certainly are not afraid to state that others lied without the facts at hand but when they get caught with the facts at hand they suddenly seem silent, forgetfull and will offer you a new twist on something thats on the opposite side of the isle.
                  Last edited by Dreadnought; 13 Jul 09,, 19:39.
                  Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                    "The executive is not the law or above it."

                    *They have the sole responsibility of taking actions that protect this country and its citizenry and intrests. That is not to say they can break the law but history has shown long before the end of the twentieth century that it has been done many times before and if we were to look very closely at conflicts past it will readily reveal itself. Do you really want to look in depth or just enough to point the finger the opposite direction such as at Bush and Cheyney?

                    "The Unitary Executive theory needs to be trounced in court."

                    *So do any kind of rights to terrorists!

                    *You have a better chance at ammending the Constitution before any US president gives up that right. It is his/hers and theirs alone and it is there for a reason wether you like it or not. He/She is the person in that office, they make the call. That is partly to ensure that no private interests interdict or have impression upon Congress and its rulings. It is a fail safe.


                    *They havent been sleeping so sound since "W" started those operations long long ago. Obama had zero to do with it but alas, he still gets the credit because of the Bush bashers.;) Silly us for already knowing that.
                    :
                    The unitary executive as practiced by Bush is not ensconced in the Constitution it holds the Executive is above the law. Yeah, only it was Obama that started them sorry. Do you believe Obama above the law now?
                    Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
                    ~Ronald Reagan

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
                      The unitary executive as practiced by Bush is not ensconced in the Constitution it holds the Executive is above the law. Yeah, only it was Obama that started them sorry. Do you believe Obama above the law now?


                      *Any you would be a lawyer that can both interpitate
                      A) The Constitution?
                      B) The Unitary Executive theory?

                      In order to make such a statement I'm assuming that you work for the Justice Department. If not then your statement is rendered moot as it has never been revoked nor even questioned since Hamilton. Perhaps a bit itchy since the former administrations Demorcratic held Congress could'nt either?

                      Yeah, only it was Obama that started them sorry

                      *I think you better re-read about Predator Drone Strikes. They were happening long before Mr. Obama took office and decided to continue their use from former Bush policy about not getting permission from Pakistans government before strikes started. He suffered no fall out and no opposition since he didnt put his neck out such as in Bush's case and only continued Bush doctrine. How convienient and in addition did you notice GITMO is still open? Another convienence afforded to him from Bush doctrine although he campaigned against it to get those votes and once again the evil Bush administration at its core.;)

                      *Do I believe he is above the law? No, but I do believe he should not be meddeling in the Automakers,Stockbrokers etc etc etc. If he wants to clean house as he states then why not start with Congress. They waste Billions of the peoples money every single year on false investigations, hearings and pork projects. The American people will never get their money back from companies such as GM and Chrysler to start with. GM made their money through financing for the last 10 years not autos.;)

                      Wanna buy a bridge?:))
                      Last edited by Dreadnought; 13 Jul 09,, 21:54.
                      Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Actually Obama stepped the attacks up and pressure on the Pakistani goverment He also campaigned about doing exactly what is happening in Pakistan and Afganistan now. I hope it hasnt been allowed to fester to long.
                        Dick Cheney 'hid plans to kill al-Qaida operatives abroad' | World news | guardian.co.uk

                        If you dont believe he is above the law why do you think Bush/Cheney were/are?

                        That meddling is a continuation of Bush policy as well and quite legal.

                        Ahhh yes to say the President isnt above the law now requires a law degree?
                        Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.”
                        ~Ronald Reagan

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                          And you believe this tripe? And Pelosi is right. The HAHA is on you my friend. Nothing more then a cover up to protect Pelosi, We know shes an idiot, they know shes an idiot, why protect her from what we and the public already know. Notice Obama has not much to say about it becuase if the closet door opens its not just going to be Republican skeletons falling out. The whole truth or no truth at all.:));)
                          IMO, This will disappear just like Pelosi's did, swept under the carpet, but a moment in the media for required effect no doubt. Too late Dems, the people already know shes an idiot that talks ka ka.:P

                          Pelosi claimed not to of been told about waterboarsing.

                          *No, She claimed that the CIA "LIED" to her and Congress and that she was never told when in fact she was. Big difference when pointing legal accusations at one of the institutions that protect this country and its security.

                          Ergo, you have this article to "help" take the publics/voters minds off Pelosi, her accusations and the embarassment the Democrats suffered over it. Shes an idiot.
                          Oh *puhleeeze* She said that the CIA intentionally misled congress, not in those words obviously. Now if we are going to refute this because they withheld information & she said they lied (I'm not sure if here exact words were "lied" or "Misled" but anyway) then your just splitting hairs.

                          This is too big of an accusation for democrats to drum up or lie, but that is just my opinion but they do say they have the testimony & documents to prove Cheneys instructions to the CIA. As for Obama staying out of it, I believe its him sticking to his assertion of looking forward not backward to stay above the debate although, yes, also to protect the democratic image(Clinton Rendition occurences will be brought up, I agree) but this attention is bad for the Republicans right now thus good for the Dems, ie a distraction that tarnishes the GOP image. I believe that Obamas withdrawal? from the debate is to remain clean rather than his belief that the allegations are not true.
                          Last edited by Helium; 14 Jul 09,, 08:37.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Roosveltrepub View Post
                            Actually Obama stepped the attacks up and pressure on the Pakistani goverment He also campaigned about doing exactly what is happening in Pakistan and Afganistan now. I hope it hasnt been allowed to fester to long.
                            Dick Cheney 'hid plans to kill al-Qaida operatives abroad' | World news | guardian.co.uk

                            If you dont believe he is above the law why do you think Bush/Cheney were/are?

                            That meddling is a continuation of Bush policy as well and quite legal.

                            Ahhh yes to say the President isnt above the law now requires a law degree?


                            *Obama merely followed Bush doctrine without having to recieve the pressure nor the negative media attention that Bush had to in order to execute the strikes. For everything he campaigned against and gave negative comments about he surely must agree with the policy when nobody is watching otherwise he would have changed it. So why not stop giving him credit for something he didnt do. Because he surely didnt come up with the policy nor advanced it, only copied it.

                            *Bush and Chenyney delt with something Mr. Obama hasnt, If that were to change and he were to rush to decision like Bush was pressured to do then we might be having this same conversation again in the very near
                            future.

                            "That meddling is a continuation of Bush policy as well and quite legal."

                            *Yeah,except Bush's policy was never to "state own" anything. A shame that the taxpayers are being robbed blind to repay debts to the Unions the Democrats courted to vote for them and forced into a deficit never seen before. Tell me how do you feel knowing that your hard earned tax money is being used to pay off Union favors and will do basically nothing for the private business owners nor the local economies of some of the poorest states while reducing the military budget and making deals with the Russians that will reduce our capacity and maybe theirs but will remain a problem with Iran and North Korea as Russia will do nothing to stop their antagonism. Yeah, we really got something out of this deal, while side stepping the very issue that we have with them. Do you know what that issue is? I doubt that you do;)

                            "Ahhh yes to say the President isnt above the law now requires a law degree?"

                            *No, but I sincerely doubt that you yourself could interpitate the Constitution and what a Presidents legal rights are before making accusations that are basically baseless. Otherwise you yourself could replace the White House staff lawyers and the Justice Department. I wonder what the odds of that are?

                            If you dont believe he is above the law why do you think Bush/Cheney were/are?

                            What I believe is that Bush/Cheyney reacted in a way that was expected from any President given the situation the country was in and basically both kept the terrorists on the run and did the ugly job that nobody wanted to do. As I stated before I am glad our American rights came before any Terrorist rights and I hope that it remains that way forever. When it dont, you will see rioting in the streets and your Administration and Congresss in fear of the people.
                            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Oh *puhleeeze* She said that the CIA intentionally misled congress, not in those words obviously. Now if we are going to refute this because they withheld information & she said they lied (I'm not sure if here exact words were "lied" or "Misled" but anyway) then your just splitting hairs.

                              *Spliting hairs? Is that not what is going on right now with Pelosi and others leading the charge? Please. No, she was dumb enough to blatantly state they lied. Is it any wonder this smokescreen appeared shortly thereafter because the media drove the point home of how much of an idiot and a liar she is. Go figure.

                              *How can you withold information on a project that never went into effect? As the CIA head stated it did not cross the threshold of where the CIA must inform Congress. In other words a whole lot of posturing and bluster from the Democrats to shield Pelosi. Nothing more and nothing less and the Democratic Congress just cannot wait to waste the taxpayers money at a lengthy investigation that will produce absolutuely nothing but cover fire for the idiot.
                              Me I would much rather see real work being done in Congress then have my money wasted on nothing but Pelosi cover fire becasue they will never get Cheyney. He would not have attempted it if he couldnt get away with it.

                              This is too big of an accusation for democrats to drum up or lie, but that is just my opinion but they do say they have the testimony & documents to prove Cheneys instructions to the CIA. As for Obama staying out of it, I believe its him sticking to his assertion of looking forward not backward to stay above the debate although, yes, also to protect the democratic image(Clinton Rendition occurences will be brought up, I agree) but this attention is bad for the Republicans right now thus good for the Dems, ie a distraction that tarnishes the GOP image. I believe that Obamas withdrawal? from the debate is to remain clean rather than his belief that the allegations are not true.

                              *Really, Cheyney as VP can give whatever instructions he wants to the CIA if the project never went ahead nor recieved funding. You are attempting to blame him for something that did not happen although you want to hold him responsible as if it had in fact happened? Jumping the gun arent we? Just more bluster to blind the effect that Pelosi screwed up royally and she got caught and made an idiot out of herself and those that voted her Speaker. When that happens to the Speaker of the House (3rd in line for the Presidency) what does that say about the Democratic leadership?

                              *You are trying to catch someone that has already played these games long before Pelosi and her chums. Cheyney was not only White House Chief of Staff but also Secretary of Defense. I think he has a good idea of what is legal and what is not and how to go about "walking the line". He's going to make the Democrats look like fools once again.;)

                              In addition, It will be a true pleasure to see Reid not re-elected. Pelosi is going to loose one of her major chums. Better days are ahead.:)
                              Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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