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  • Rapid Re-activation

    Hi Guys,

    I found a few measures that congress have laid out for BB Iowa and Wisconsin should they be needed.

    Congress has asked that the following measures be implemented to ensure that, if need be, Iowa and Wisconsin can be returned to active duty:

    1. Iowa and Wisconsin must not be altered in any way that would impair their military utility;
    2. The battleships must be preserved in their present condition through the continued use of cathodic protection, dehumidification systems, and any other preservation methods as needed;
    3. Spare parts and unique equipment such as the 16-inch (410 mm) gun barrels and projectiles be preserved in adequate numbers to support Iowa and Wisconsin, if reactivated;
    4. The Navy must prepare plans for the rapid reactivation of Iowa and Wisconsin should they be returned to the Navy in the event of a national emergency.


    This is really close to the act of 1996, can anyone tell me if this is still an active request from congress? if so, when does this term expire?

    Captcav

  • #2
    Well yeah, they did lay out these measures several years ago. I don't think they've been strictly followed though.

    1. Ok this still holds true.
    2. Yes, but I believe the Iowa needs some more attention then it's getting, that rust is getting heavy.
    3. I think the last of the spare barrels were scrapped out just a couple years ago. I think the only "spares" are what's on the Missouri and New Jersey.
    4. There is absolutely no plan that I know of.

    The Navy doesn't want the battleships at all anymore. They're doing less then what congress requires. I'm not sure what's left in 16" shells, but I doubt is much.
    "If a man does his best, what else is there?"
    -General George Patton Jr.

    Comment


    • #3
      The main thing the Navy does not want you to do is reactivate any machinery for propulsion. The orders also said not to reactivate any navigation equipment either but if you are talking of a tall ship, such as a Carrier or Battleship, that may be waived if the reactivation of RADAR is to support the city and harbor in weather, water traffic, air traffic, etc. should their RADAR go down. Also you are not supposed to reactivate the galley, but there are some exceptions to this also.

      If I were a lawyer (and not a retired Naval Architect and for a short while a Tank crewman), I would say that by OMISSION, the restrictions would allow you to reactivate the guns. As long as they use semi-fixed ammunition (such as the 5"/38's are two components and the 16"/50's are up to seven components) they do not fall under the Federal Firearms Act as "Destructive Devices".

      Technically.

      Affording the ammo and finding a firing range is a bit of a problem however.

      These restrictions held true for both the Massachuessets and North Carolina well into the 80's until we stripped a lot of spare parts off of them. Those restrictions have now been lifted.

      The Alabama was not under those restrictions as she was put up for bids for scrapping. But the State outbid the scrappers and they can do whatever they want with the ship as they own it outright.

      Having inspected all four Iowa class ships, I think the rule to put Iowa and New Jersey back into Class B reserve for a while was just a bunch of hogwash to satisfy the Battleship lovers who wanted a couple ready for reactivation. I know their conditions and compartment arrangements inside and out. Therefore the two in the best condition are the Wisconsin and the Missouri - in that order.

      There are other ship museums that are not under restrictions such as the USS Orleck (DD 886) that was given back to us from the Turkish Navy to be put on display in Texas where she was built. One of our divers from LBNSY went there and instructed the Texas divers how to remove the SONAR dome and the propellers.

      The USS Lane Victory is totally owned by its association and is fully seaworthy and makes 2 or 3 trips a year to Catalina Island and back. (Side note: In the movie "Sand Pebbles" with Steve McQueen and Maco in the engine room were done aboard the Lane Victory. She has also appeared in a number of commercials).

      As for spare parts for Battleships, I know of a few lying around various parts of the country including two barrels out in the Mojave Desert.

      Unfortunately, my Ford F-150 even with 4 wheel drive would not be able to pull the special 24 wheel flat bed they are hauled on. 118 standard tons is a bit of a strain.

      Besides, my driveway isn't long enough and if I laid it alongside my house (which is shorter than the barrel) it would just become a home for Racoons from El Dorado Park.

      And my gardener would probably quit.
      Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

      Comment


      • #4
        USS New Jersey was already promised to the state though after many years of hard earned donations and much leg work and red tape. I know that shes in very good shape actually I would have questioned her condition against Mo's any day with exception that they (63&64) were updated one last time before the opening of the Gulf War. As soon as she returned from the Med she immediately went to Bremerton for storage. One of the two is wearing the deck she should have had but thats nor here nor there and a moot point.

        I wish they would remove certain restrictions from the ship. It would make our upcoming jobs that much easier and certainly would eliminate alot of red tape,time and money. But since the USN holds the pinks its either their way or no way at all. Not an easy spot to be in.
        Last edited by Dreadnought; 23 Jun 09,, 13:39.
        Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
          The main thing the Navy does not want you to do is reactivate any machinery for propulsion.
          Safest place would be on the pier if they ever tried to start steaming. Cost too much to do all the necessary inspections/modifications to make it safe enough to legally steam. The piping is 66 years old, it's 600 psi steam at 850 degrees of superheated steam or 495 degrees of 600lb aux steam.

          Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post

          There are other ship museums that are not under restrictions such as the USS Orleck (DD 886) that was given back to us from the Turkish Navy to be put on display in Texas where she was built. One of our divers from LBNSY went there and instructed the Texas divers how to remove the SONAR dome and the propellers.
          Last I heard they were still looking for permanent home for the Orleck. It still might end up going to the scrappers. Don't care for how the two Orleck organizations are being run. Let my membership to the Orleck Association expire years ago.


          Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post

          Unfortunately, my Ford F-150 even with 4 wheel drive would not be able to pull the special 24 wheel flat bed they are hauled on.
          So you bought it after all. Didn't get a price break either I'm guessing. What happened to the Dodge truck? If you kept it you'd have more room to bring the stuff to the next LBNSY picnic. You could have Don L. drive it :))

          Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
          USS New Jersey was already promised to the state though after many years of hard earned donations and much leg work and red tape. I know that shes in very good shape actually I would have questioned her condition against Mo's any day with exception that they (63&64) were updated one last time before the opening of the Gulf War.
          I'd bet a cup of coffee the Jersey was in the worst shape of the 4 even before the Gulf War. Course that's just an opinion.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'd bet a cup of coffee the Jersey was in the worst shape of the 4 even before the Gulf War. Course that's just an opinion.

            *Outside of her one skeg, what would lead you to believe this? Im just wandering what factors are included.

            Records:

            Iowa,
            Operational and Building Data: Laid down by New York Naval Ship Yard, June 27, 1940. Launched August 27, 1942. Commissioned February 22, 1943. Decommissioned March 24, 1949. Recommissioned August 25, 1951. Decommissioned February 2, 1958. Recommissioned April 28, 1984. Decommissioned October 26, 1990. Stricken for disposal 12 January 1995 but retained as a parts source. Reinstated on the Naval Vessels Register and returned to reserve status 4 January 1999.
            Fate: Moved to Susian Bay, Benicia California, April 2001

            New Jersey,
            Operational and Building Data: Laid down by Philadelphia Naval Ship Yard, September 16, 1940. Launched December 7, 1942. Commissioned May 23, 1943. Decommissioned June 30, 1948. Recommissioned November 21, 1950. Decommissioned August 21, 1957. Recommissioned April 6, 1968. Decommissioned December 17, 1969. Recommissioned December 28, 1982. Decommissioned September 9, 1991. Stricken for disposal 12, January 1995. Retained in reserve; reinstated on the Naval Vessels Register, in reserve, 12, February 1998. Stricken for preservation in New Jersey, 4 January, 1999. Towed to Philadelphia, 12 Sept 1999 - 11 Nov 1999.
            Fate: Moved to Camden, NJ for preservation as a museum

            Missouri,
            Operational and Building Data: Laid down by New York Naval Ship Yard, January 6, 1941. Launched January 29, 1944. Commissioned June 11, 1944. Decommissioned February 26, 1955. Recommissioned May 10, 1986. Decommissioned March 31, 1992. Stricken for disposal January 12, 1995. Donated for preservation May 4, 1998.
            Fate: Preserved as a museum at Ford Island, Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, June 1998.

            Wisconsin,
            Operational and Building Data: Laid down by Philadelphia Naval Ship Yard, January 25 1941. Launched 7 December 1943. Commissioned April 16 1944. Decommissioned July 1 1948. Recommissioned March 3 1951. Decommissioned March 8 1958. Recommissioned October 22 1988. Decommissioned September 30 1991. Stricken for disposal 12 January 1995 but retained in reserve. Reinstated on the Naval Vessels Register, in reserve, 12 February 1998.
            Fate: Berthed at Norfolk, VA; to become a museum-in-reserve,with the weather decks open to the public, but the ship still maintained in reserve and owned by the Navy.


            *Grant it that Missouri and Wisconsin were the very last two to join the fleet and gives credence to their relatively younger age but Mo made up for this by staying in service longer due to Harry Truman.

            If one considers that New Jersey was the only BB in service during the late 1960's (1968-1969) while the rest slept throughout the 1970's and early 1980's if anything New Jersey should have been in better shape then all of them by the time of re-commisioning due to her refit here in Philly prior to the Vietnam cruise. Iowa, New Jersey and Wisconsin were all held here in Philly on the East coast prior to New Jerseys refit in Drydock 4 in Philly and Missouri sat on the West Coast at Bremerton. When de-commisioned Iowa cam out first followed by New Jersey ,Wisconsin and Missouri. I can understand that the West coast is different then the East coast as far as water quality for the amount of time they sat but from what I have learned after they used underwater camera's on her that she is in pretty good condition hull wise and that was no more then last year (summer).

            Now, I dont know about Iowa (Dick could answer this) but I do know that not long ago Mo was taking on water from leaking outter wing tanks enough to register on her inclinometer and is in need of some repair if it has not already happened and I have visited Wisconsin last year whilst I was in Norfolk for other business and she looked pretty good. And no red flags to date that I am aware of so to speak.

            Just interested in your point of view Pal.:)
            Last edited by Dreadnought; 23 Jun 09,, 16:29.
            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post

              Just interested in your point of view Pal.:)
              Hey, one of them has to be number 1 and one has to be number 4.

              It's not like any of them are actually going to move on their own power ever again.

              If you're thinking about coming over to egg my car, good luck. Even cRusty has forgotten where I live.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Ytlas View Post
                Hey, one of them has to be number 1 and one has to be number 4.

                It's not like any of them are actually going to move on their own power ever again.

                If you're thinking about coming over to egg my car, good luck. Even cRusty has forgotten where I live.
                1) Agreed there has to be one and one must be the other.

                2) Pretty much agreed. Doubtfull.

                3)That would be the longest "come over" I have ever undertaken and we gentlemen dont egg cars Pal. Never have never will. Something along the order of "Do unto others"... We drink, smoke cigars, chase the women and argue. oh and curse like you wouldnt believe:));)
                Last edited by Dreadnought; 23 Jun 09,, 18:22.
                Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Dread: When NJ was decommissioned we dry-docked her for one last time to weld cover plates over the intakes and discharges. I spent some time inspecting her and the hull was having corrosion problems again. There is one pit near a ballast tank intake about the size of a tennis ball.
                  Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
                    Dread: When NJ was decommissioned we dry-docked her for one last time to weld cover plates over the intakes and discharges. I spent some time inspecting her and the hull was having corrosion problems again. There is one pit near a ballast tank intake about the size of a tennis ball.
                    Agreed, If not mistaken there was a simular problem before as well during the 80's re-activation dry docking that needed attention. But all in all for being 65 years of age (life expectancy of 35 years) they have held up well to the beatings they have taken time and time again. Lets just hope they continue to age like a fine bottle of wine.:)


                    *Speaking of this, I'm wondering how well North Carolina has aged, she should be ready for dry docking soon and I wonder what her hull will reveal being older then the Iowas.
                    Last edited by Dreadnought; 23 Jun 09,, 18:24.
                    Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                      Agreed, If not mistaken there was a simular problem before as well during the 80's re-activation dry docking that needed attention. .
                      Oh yeah. I was in on that one too. "I" (was the scape goat) didn't put enough zinc anodes on the hull. The only guidance I had was the 1968 Philadelphia pattern. NAVSEA said they have a different pattern, but I didn't get it (to write the Shipalt and have the drawings done) until AFTER the ship came into drydock.

                      Actually, I did have enough anodes on the ship for a standard 3 year protection but the ship was kept out for 5 years. Also the hull was scrubbed FOUR times a year instead of once. The divers rotary scrubbers had steel bristles which actually took the primer paint off in some places.

                      Also the bilge keels were really buggered up because the Panama Canal does not take them into consideration as they don't want to use too much water in the locks.

                      The first photo is the bent out of useful shape port bilge keel (starboard similar - opposite hand). The second photo is the repaired bilge keel with the new pattern of zinc anodes. The third photo is of an area of the centerline flat keel that had lots of corrosion pits welded up.
                      Attached Files
                      Last edited by RustyBattleship; 23 Jun 09,, 22:05.
                      Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
                        The second photo is the repaired bilge keel with the new pattern of zinc anodes.
                        Is that you standing next to that nasty scupper hose?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ytlas View Post
                          Is that you standing next to that nasty scupper hose?
                          I'm afraid so. But when I first started working dry docks as an apprentice shipfitter, those hoses didn't go that far down. That is IF there were any attached to the scuppers.
                          Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
                            I'm afraid so. But when I first started working dry docks as an apprentice shipfitter, those hoses didn't go that far down. That is IF there were any attached to the scuppers.
                            Rusty, The above pics are from the 80's refit? I was just wondering since they were still in B&W. Was this used for better clarity?
                            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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