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All Time High for Science in Canadian Government

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  • All Time High for Science in Canadian Government

    not...

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

    When asked whether or not he believes in Evolution... the Canadian Science Minister replies...

    “I do believe that just because you can't see it under a microscope doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It could mean we don't have a powerful enough microscope yet. So I'm not fussy on this business that we already know everything. … I think we need to recognize that we don't know.”
    We are evolving every year, every decade. That's a fact, whether it is to the intensity of the sun, whether it is to, as a chiropractor, walking on cement versus anything else, whether it is running shoes or high heels, of course we are evolving to our environment. But that's not relevant and that is why I refused to answer the question. The interview was about our science and tech strategy, which is strong.
    Hope he either learn more about the basics in modern science, or gets replaced...
    Last edited by cr9527; 27 Mar 09,, 09:54.

  • #2
    You should respeck his oppinion!!1


    Nah, I find people who outlaw drugs but legalize and protect fundie thought a little scary.

    http://www.fstdt.com/

    Just reading this site tells one not to respect a bible thumper.

    Comment


    • #3
      I know this was an old thread, but it is still relevant.

      Recently, a bill was passed by the conservatives in Alberta(Canadian province) with a Unanimous vote to allow parents to pull out kids from a class if that class contains contents regarding sex, homosexuality, religion etc.

      While the immediate implications isn't that large, it is entirely possible that this bill would open up the window for parents to prevent kids from learning about Evolution, as it is opposed by many religious fundamentalists.

      more info here

      In my opinion... Since when should the knowledge of Science be governed by Fairy tales??? You know... other than from the fall of Roman Empire till the Renaissance.

      P.S. Bash me all you want religious folks, but you CANNOT deny that Religion is merely a VERY elaborate set of Fairy tales that are being taken as facts by people. I am all for freedom of Religion, but pushing it onto Children as Indoctrination is just Wrong.
      Last edited by cr9527; 03 Jun 09,, 22:38.

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      • #4
        Some people believe in the fairy tale of "global warming" too. But that seems to be OK to indoctrinate the kids with.
        "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by gunnut View Post
          Some people believe in the fairy tale of "global warming" too. But that seems to be OK to indoctrinate the kids with.
          I believe its called Climate Change now, but parents don't know that.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by cr9527 View Post
            In my opinion... Since when should the knowledge of Science be governed by Fairy tales??? You know... other than from the fall of Roman Empire till the Renaissance.

            P.S. Bash me all you want religious folks, but you CANNOT deny that Religion is merely a VERY elaborate set of Fairy tales that are being taken as facts by people. I am all for freedom of Religion, but pushing it onto Children as Indoctrination is just Wrong.
            Right because the Church never funded science by say the monk Copernicus, Paschal, or even Galileo. Not to mention the Catholic Priest Georges-Henri Lemaitre who came up with the big bang idea while working at a Catholic University. Are there elements of Christianity that are hostile to science, yes, but not all are.

            I would answer your basic question of science being guided by fairy tales, with no. However, I would say that science requires ethics and morality in order to truly advance humanity. Interesting note the way I read this is you could pull your kids out if they are teaching about religion and you don't want your child to learn about that.

            I personally think this is a bad idea. I think rather parents should be involved with their kids and their lives and know what is being taught. Running and hiding from things you disagree with in my opinion is not the way. School teaches something you disagree with, talk to your kid(s) about it. Note I am not a parent, but I'm not all that far removed from being a public school student.

            As for religion being a fairy tale I recommend researching the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano and the Incorruptibles for starters. Doesn't prove there is a god, but definitely a sign that something interesting is going on that science can not explain and not just mere fairy tales.

            Hope this didn't come through as bashing. You have the right to form your own opinion and your own beliefs, but please don't insult mine and call them a fairy tale.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by cr9527 View Post
              I believe its called Climate Change now, but parents don't know that.
              Since when does climate NOT change?
              "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                Right because the Church never funded science by say the monk Copernicus, Paschal, or even Galileo.
                Not sure who Paschal you are talking about, but Copernicus was going to be silenced by the Church, but died before that could've happened.
                And Galileo is a terrible example for your case for he was punished for his studies and claims.
                Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                Not to mention the Catholic Priest Georges-Henri Lemaitre who came up with the big bang idea while working at a Catholic University.
                Georges Lemaître was a physicist as well as a priest. But which part gave him the Big Bang idea i wonder...
                Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                However, I would say that science requires ethics and morality in order to truly advance humanity.
                Agreed, but letting parents choose for their kids on what to believe, especially about Science is wrong.
                Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                Interesting note the way I read this is you could pull your kids out if they are teaching about religion and you don't want your child to learn about that.
                As a Religious Studies course, or Cultural, or Social studies course, I wouldn't mind it. But as an Alternative explanation for the world?
                Would you teach your kids that they were brought in by Pelicans?
                Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                I think rather parents should be involved with their kids and their lives and know what is being taught.
                And that gets theories like Evolution Banned from Schools, or atleast having "Intelligent design" as an alternative. Indoctrination of a Fairy Tail is a Bad Idea.
                Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                researching the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano
                Some Heart on a plate, and blood in a cup, over a thousand years ago is supposed to prove something other than somebody is really messed up in the head? All we know is that its a heart, and its blood. Doesn't mean anything because of Infalsifiability issues.
                Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                the Incorruptibles
                So was Lenin, was he a Saint? Or was there a scientific explanation?
                Here is a quote from a doctor who examined the corpse
                "The body is practically mummified, covered with patches of mildew and quite a notable layer of salts, which appear to be calcium salts"
                Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                but definitely a sign that something interesting is going on that science can not explain
                Science can't explain everything, not now, not ever, but that doesn't mean we should plug in an automatic fairy into every shadow of science.
                Originally posted by Jimbo View Post
                please don't insult mine and call them a fairy tale
                There is Nothing about Religion that states it is otherwise.
                Especially not the big 3.

                Modern Christianity is practically remade by Constantine so it would better benefit his Empire for example.


                And thank you gunnut for that insightful comment.

                As for you Jimbo, do explain what is different from your religion from every other ones? From Aztec Teotl
                which had live human sacrifices, to Christianity with eating of representation of human flesh, to Judaism which essentially is the basis of Christianity but without the messiah, to Islam which is Christianity with a different messiah, to the Egyptians with their earlier version of Jesus(Horus), to the earlier Greek version of Jesus Dionysus, to Hinduism which states cows are a representation of a Goddess, to Mormons who believe Native Americans are a lost tribe of Israel, to Scientology which claims Psychology is evil.... need I go on?
                Last edited by cr9527; 04 Jun 09,, 10:36.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by cr9527 View Post
                  Agreed, but letting parents choose for their kids on what to believe, especially about Science is wrong.
                  I take strong issue with that. No state has the right to tell me as a father what beliefs I should or should not instill onto my children.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Officer of Engineers
                    I take strong issue with that. No state has the right to tell me as a father what beliefs I should or should not instill onto my children.
                    Agreed. Dawkins can talk about the tyranny of parents instilling religious beliefs into their children all he wants, but the fact is, somebody is going to influence the beliefs of children- the question is who. And I'm much more comfortable having parents decide that than the state.
                    I enjoy being wrong too much to change my mind.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ArmchairGeneral View Post
                      Agreed. Dawkins can talk about the tyranny of parents instilling religious beliefs into their children all he wants, but the fact is, somebody is going to influence the beliefs of children- the question is who. And I'm much more comfortable having parents decide that than the state.
                      Notice I said Science, therefore its not about religious beliefs.

                      That being said, my issue was Parents pulling kids out of schools because of scientific contents that may interfere with their religious beliefs. And since no religious classes i've ever seen in Alberta, so, im sure the fuzz about this topic isn't about religion being shoved into children in school.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by cr9527 View Post
                        Notice I said Science, therefore its not about religious beliefs.

                        That being said, my issue was Parents pulling kids out of schools because of scientific contents that may interfere with their religious beliefs. And since no religious classes i've ever seen in Alberta, so, im sure the fuzz about this topic isn't about religion being shoved into children in school.
                        Would you pull your kids out of school if the school is teaching religion while you want science?
                        "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by gunnut View Post
                          Would you pull your kids out of school if the school is teaching religion while you want science?
                          As far as I know, it is illegal for a public school to do that.
                          But if it is the case, then no. Because learning about something doesn't make you believe it.

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                          • #14
                            So, you want forced education, no matter what. Sorry, that disaster has been visited upon Canadians once. Never again.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by cr9527 View Post
                              As far as I know, it is illegal for a public school to do that.
                              Not if religion is held as truth.

                              Originally posted by cr9527 View Post
                              But if it is the case, then no. Because learning about something doesn't make you believe it.
                              When did you learn about evolution and when did you start to believe it?
                              "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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