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  • Another Iowa class question!

    I've seen early pictures of the Iowa class hips with a different looking bridge, it was just the round citadel. When and why did they build the current bridge around the citadel? I know it looks a heck of alot better, was it just for more room for more stuff or something?
    "If a man does his best, what else is there?"
    -General George Patton Jr.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Michigan_Guy View Post
    I've seen early pictures of the Iowa class hips with a different looking bridge, it was just the round citadel. When and why did they build the current bridge around the citadel? I know it looks a heck of alot better, was it just for more room for more stuff or something?
    The first 2 Iowa-class battleships (Iowa and New Jersey) were designed, built and initially operated with mostly open navigation bridges. Minimal alterations were made, probably on an ad hoc basis to provide some shelter from the elements.

    However the first captain of the New Jersey, Captain Carl Holden was not happy with the arrangement, as it meant bridge personnel were fully exposed to the weather.

    So, he put a bug in the ear of COMINCH Ernest King, who authorized construction of an enclosed, rounded, bridge in October 1943.

    Missouri and Wisconsin had their bridges enclosed during construction using the squared-off designed we're used to seeing on them (more room in this design than New Jersey's rounded bridge).

    New Jersey
    received her squared-off bridge in June 1945 and Iowa was of course also rebuilt with the same squared-off enclosed bridge. New Jersey would end up being the only Iowa to sport the rounded-off bridge.

    The first picture is Iowa's original bridge and the second picture is New Jersey's unique rounded bridge.
    Attached Files
    “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

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    • #3
      Oh how cool, I never knew about New Jersey's round bridge! Amazing how many modifications these ships have had over the years.

      Thanks for the reply!
      "If a man does his best, what else is there?"
      -General George Patton Jr.

      Comment


      • #4
        USS New Jersey was the first to have an enclosed bridge (the rounded glass enclosed structure) after her refit (during WWII) its was found that the rounded structure did not satisfy so then she was fitted with what we call the trapazoid bridge and her sisters were given the same refit very soon afterwards.;)

        *By the way TH good shot of the Captains bridge on the 08 level uncovered on Iowa. (Easy to tell its her since her conning tower is one level higher then the other sisters).
        Last edited by Dreadnought; 13 Mar 09,, 13:23.
        Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

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        • #5
          Looks kinda crowded.

          So I know that the main helm is in the citadel, did they add a second one in the new bridge area or is it just the one?
          "If a man does his best, what else is there?"
          -General George Patton Jr.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Michigan_Guy View Post
            Looks kinda crowded.

            So I know that the main helm is in the citadel, did they add a second one in the new bridge area or is it just the one?
            Secondary conn is up on the 08 level behind 3/4" thick STS. In the upper picture you can see it very well on the Iowa. ONLY the Iowa had the bullwark stiffeners on the OUTSIDE.
            Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
              USS New Jersey was the first to have an enclosed bridge (the rounded glass enclosed structure) after her refit (during WWII) its was found that the rounded structure did not satisfy so then she was fitted with what we call the trapazoid bridge and her sisters were given the same refit very soon afterwards.;)

              *By the way TH good shot of the Captains bridge on the 08 level uncovered on Iowa. (Easy to tell its her since her conning tower is one level higher then the other sisters).
              Ah-ha!

              Always found it interesting how even in a class of ships there would be differences large and small as experience or necessity prompted alterations.
              “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by RustyBattleship View Post
                Secondary conn is up on the 08 level behind 3/4" thick STS. In the upper picture you can see it very well on the Iowa. ONLY the Iowa had the bullwark stiffeners on the OUTSIDE.
                Ahhh I see it! Ok so under normal, non combat situations, do they steer the ship from the secondary or primary conn?
                "If a man does his best, what else is there?"
                -General George Patton Jr.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Michigan_Guy View Post
                  Ahhh I see it! Ok so under normal, non combat situations, do they steer the ship from the secondary or primary conn?
                  From the secondary. They can see much, much better from up there.

                  In the photo, it shows the conning console in the open (like the bridge). But not long afterwards the upper conns on all four were enclosed in an "armored" deckhouse about the size of an outhouse but with big circular port lights.

                  The primary conn is inside the enormously thick conning tower (17" of Class B armor) looking out through peepholes. Vision highly restricted there and the helmsman had to depend solely on the orders of the bridge officer (usually the ship's Captain) on the outside.

                  That's why the Missouri ran aground. The ship's Captain ordered the helmsman (a SECOND time) to steer to stbd. The Helmsman was a Portsmouth pilot and knew about the sand bars there. After the second order was growled at him, he dutifully put the Battleship on a sand bar and snagged it on a big rock that caused the sandbar build up to begin with.
                  Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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                  • #10
                    Yup, that's why I was asking I kinda figured it would be hard to pilot the ship from inside that with just those slits to look through.

                    So that's how the Mo got on the sand bar, I never knew!
                    "If a man does his best, what else is there?"
                    -General George Patton Jr.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Michigan_Guy View Post
                      So that's how the Mo got on the sand bar, I never knew!
                      A few years ago on a satellite channel there was an episode about Battleships and they interviewed the helmsman (well into his Golden years by then). He said he tried to explain to the Captain that as his past experience as a Portsmout Pilot, he knew there were sand bars out there.

                      He then said the Captain pressed his face against the slit and angrily said, "When I say steer to starboard, I mean we will steer to starboard."

                      Of course, they tried to put the blame on the helmsman (being only an enlisted man) but I don't think that Captain ever made Admiral.
                      Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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                      • #12
                        Steering stations aboard the Iowa class:

                        1) Primary Conn or the conning tower station on the Navigation bridge.
                        2) The 08 level or Captians bridge on the mast. (The highest of the 4 with the best view of the ship fore and aft).
                        3) Forward steering (actually looking aft or at the stern) Broadway station or third deck below under the armored citidel and close by the gyro compass room.
                        4) Steerage gear room for manual steering by hands on if necessary.

                        *The first three can only activate after going through the "trick wheel" process for indexing the linkage to the helm itself. There are I believe 3-4 steps involved for indexing the helm and obtaining control of the helm. Until those steps are completed the accuracy of the helm cannot be completed and therfore steering according to degree will be nowhere near be accurate either. It takes approximately 10-17lbs of pressure to turn the helm itself not sure how much it takes for turning the rudders manually though.
                        Last edited by Dreadnought; 16 Mar 09,, 13:22.
                        Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          OK'
                          A couple of things here about the bridge and conning station configurations.

                          The 08 level conning station on both Iowa and New Jersey is a small rectangular structure built onto the face of the forward main battery director tower.
                          Originally this station had a door in its Stbd side leading out to the small open bridge that only went around the front of the tower structure, during their shakedown period this was found to be inadequate and the platform was enlarged and extended aft to meet the deck aft of the fairing. This is why there is a small corridor going right through the captains sea cabin up there to a small door leading to the stack platform. At the same time new doors were added on both side of the tower and the original door was blanked off. There is still a weld scar in the deck and the bulkhead showing the original installation.

                          Originally the Iowa was not to have even a walkway around the front of the armored conning tower as the North Carolina class had, but this was unacceptable and the South Dakota class had this provision added and then the Iowa's had this added to the design and then modified prior to the superstructure being built to what we see on both the Iowa and New Jersey in 1943.
                          The Iowa was scheduled to get the enclosed round bridge structure that the New Jersey got during her post shakedown availability but this was deferred as the Iowa was on her mission to transport President Roosevelt to the Tehran Conference and was not available for a yard period as she was already scheduled for coming operations in the Central Pacific.

                          When the New Jersey sailed to the Pacific her new bridge was evaluated and found to not be adequate for all of the functions going on in her bridge. There was also a call for more space on the top deck of the bridge structure ( 05 lvl) for additional sky lookout positions and spotting.
                          The new bridge was designed and incorporated into the construction of the Missouri and Wisconsin prior to their progress reaching the 4th superstructure deck. The Iowa and New Jersey got this new bridge during their first major yard period. Iowa at Hunters Point and then New Jersey in Bremerton. It should be noted that the Iowa only went to the west coast because her stern tube bearing for her port inboard shaft failed and actually dropped the propellor several inches making the shaft unusable. This damage could not be properly repaired in Ulithi as other damaged ships needed the floating drydock & facilities.

                          OK, this went longer then I planned.
                          I almost forgot....
                          The Missouri and Wisconsin had a larger and more usable 08 level conning position that was a semi circular structure about twice as big as the original design which improved visability and did not have the overcrowding of the position.
                          Last edited by DreadnaughtHelper; 18 Mar 09,, 05:02.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DreadnaughtHelper View Post
                            OK'
                            A couple of things here about the bridge and conning station configurations.

                            The 08 level conning station on both Iowa and New Jersey is a small rectangular structure built onto the face of the forward main battery director tower.
                            Originally this station had a door in its Stbd side leading out to the small open bridge that only went around the front of the tower structure, during their shakedown period this was found to be inadequate and the platform was enlarged and extended aft to meet the deck aft of the fairing. This is why there is a small corridor going right through the captains sea cabin up there to a small door leading to the stack platform. At the same time new doors were added on both side of the tower and the original door was blanked off. There is still a weld scar in the deck and the bulkhead showing the original installation.

                            Originally the Iowa was not to have even a walkway around the front of the armored conning tower as the North Carolina class had, but this was unacceptable and the South Dakota class had this provision added and then the Iowa's had this added to the design and then modified prior to the superstructure being built to what we see on both the Iowa and New Jersey in 1943.
                            The Iowa was scheduled to get the enclosed round bridge structure that the New Jersey got during her post shakedown availability but this was deferred as the Iowa was on her mission to transport President Roosevelt to the Tehran Conference and was not available for a yard period as she was already scheduled for coming operations in the Central Pacific.

                            When the New Jersey sailed to the Pacific her new bridge was evaluated and found to not be adequate for all of the functions going on in her bridge. There was also a call for more space on the top deck of the bridge structure ( 05 lvl) for additional sky lookout positions and spotting.
                            The new bridge was designed and incorporated into the construction of the Missouri and Wisconsin prior to their progress reaching the 4th superstructure deck. The Iowa and New Jersey got this new bridge during their first major yard period. Iowa at Hunters Point and then New Jersey in Bremerton. It should be noted that the Iowa only went to the west coast because her stern tube bearing for her port inboard shaft failed and actually dropped the propellor several inches making the shaft unusable. This damage could not be properly repaired in Ulithi as other damaged ships needed the floating drydock & facilities.

                            OK, this went longer then I planned.
                            I almost forgot....
                            The Missouri and Wisconsin had a larger and more usable 08 level conning position that was a semi circular structure about twice as big as the original design which improved visability and did not have the overcrowding of the position.

                            Sir, Unless my eyes fool me the Captains "At Sea" cabin (behind the Nav bridge) only has one room in it and it leads directly to the head (basically a closet style head). He only gets a pullout couch and the head in his cabin. There are no other corridors in that cabin. Perhaps maybe outside, around the corner and to the left behind the charthouse entrance. I have been in said cabin numerous times and have never noticed another entrance or egress and have been up the mast a few times via the slim ladder behind the charthouse.
                            Last edited by Dreadnought; 18 Mar 09,, 13:47.
                            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                              Sir, Unless my eyes fool me the Captains "At Sea" cabin (behind the Nav bridge) only has one room in it and it leads directly to the head (basically a closet style head). He only gets a pullout couch and the head in his cabin. There are no other corridors in that cabin. Perhaps maybe outside, around the corner and to the left behind the charthouse entrance. I have been in said cabin numerous times and have never noticed another entrance or egress and have been up the mast a few times via the slim ladder behind the charthouse.
                              If you are talking New Jersey, we removed that small door and used the area to pass the antenna cables, coaxials and wave guides through.

                              I think. But I do know we removed the door and NJ's availability (before we found out she was bound for Lebanon) we had already developed a set of plans to armor plate that entire section.
                              Able to leap tall tales in a single groan.

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