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Shek
18 Feb 09,, 15:09
A good look at LeBron and Kobe. There's more at the hyperlink, and I'll post some graphs next week to visualize their career performances to date.


http://dberri.wordpress.com/2009/02/15/king-james-and-kobe/

King James and Kobe
February 15, 2009 43 Comments

Bill Simmons - the latest issue of ESPN the Magazine - examines the evidence that he is a Kobe-hater. Simmons provides various definitions of a “Kobe-hater” and explains why none apply to him personally. Although his list of definitions is quite good, I think he missed the one definition that summarizes the term. To the legions who are unabashed Kobe-lovers, a “Kobe-hater” is anyone who does not acknowledge that Kobe is the greatest player in the game today, the greatest to have ever played the game, and the greatest who will ever play the game on this planet, in this universe, and in any undiscovered dimensions where basketball can be played.

Anyone who has ever violated this view of Kobe - as I have done in the past - quickly feels the wrath of the Kobe-lovers. In fact, despite the protests of Simmons, I am sure the argument he makes in his column denying his status as a “Kobe-hater” has elicited such a response.

Simmons on Kobe, LeBron, and the Knicks

In the column Simmons examines the games played recently by Kobe and LeBron James against the Knicks.

Here are some numbers from the two games:

Kobe Bryant: 61 points, 0 rebounds, 3 assists

LeBron James: 52 points, 9 rebounds, 11 assists,

Simmons looked at these numbers and had the following reaction:

Kobe’s 61-point game represented the best and worst of basketball to me. His shotmaking was transcendent: a steady onslaught of jumpers, spin moves and fallaways made in his typically icy style, as efficient an outburst as you’ll ever see. On the other hand, his teammates stood around and watched him like movie extras. In 37 minutes, Kobe took 31 shots and another 20 free throws. He finished with three assists and no boards. He may as well have been playing by himself on one of those Pop-A-Shot machines.

….Really, it was the defining Kobe game. He elicited every reaction possible from lovers, haters and everyone in between. When LeBron arrived in New York two days later and notched his amazing 52/9/11, he didn’t break Kobe’s new record but definitely cheapened it. LeBron’s 52 came in the flow of the offense. When the Knicks doubled him, he found the open man. When they singled him, he scored. He dominated every facet of the game. It was a complete performance, basketball at its finest, everything we ever wanted from King James. And it happened 48 hours after Kobe’s big game … in the same building. Crazy.

I’ve been comparing those two games ever since. Never has basketball seemed more simple to me: I would rather watch a 52/9/11 than a 61/0/3. I would. It’s really that simple. It’s a matter of preference. So don’t call me a Kobe hater, call me a basketball lover.

And if Kobe ever put up a 52/9/11, yes, I would love him, too.

Mobbme
18 Feb 09,, 16:57
The main thing was that his team won. Lebron can dish out all the assists he wants or rebound, but that shouldn't be his job. His PG should be racking up the assists, so in a way he's hogging the play making. Rebounding? The centers should be getting all those, Ilgauskus or even Wallace.

But yeah, I love Lebron, but he's not at Kobe's level yet. I give Lebron a year or two, then he'll be the best. He still has to perfect his jump shot.

Shek
18 Feb 09,, 20:23
The main thing was that his team won. Lebron can dish out all the assists he wants or rebound, but that shouldn't be his job. His PG should be racking up the assists, so in a way he's hogging the play making. Rebounding? The centers should be getting all those, Ilgauskus or even Wallace.

But yeah, I love Lebron, but he's not at Kobe's level yet. I give Lebron a year or two, then he'll be the best. He still has to perfect his jump shot.

LeBron is past Kobe's level already, http://www.wagesofwins.com/KobeLeBronFeb09.html. As a forward, he should be pulling boards, and as a star player, he should be getting assists when defenders try to double up on him, meaning that someone else is open.

Mobbme
18 Feb 09,, 20:28
LeBron is past Kobe's level already, http://www.wagesofwins.com/KobeLeBronFeb09.html. As a forward, he should be pulling boards, and as a star player, he should be getting assists when defenders try to double up on him, meaning that someone else is open.

Kobe has 3 rings.

Ray Allen, Garnett, and Pierce all made sacrifices to win. Sometimes a star player has to do those things to make everyone around them better and to win. With Lebron having that many points and assists, he meant he had the ball that many more times, great for a star player, shows he also has faith in his teammates for passing it up.

Lebron led his team to the finals against the Spurs, and they easily shut him down. No team can shut down Kobe; thats what Lebron has to do. Until he masters his shot, I can't say he's on the same line as Kobe.

Shek
18 Feb 09,, 20:43
Kobe has 3 rings.

All of them earned with Shaq Fu down in the post and a strong supporting cast otherwise. When you have to guard against everybody, you can't double up against anybody or risk giving up easy points. When you only have one star player, then you can afford to double up. Superstars can only do so much; it takes an owner that's able and willing to open up the pocketbook as well.

Edit: In terms of this season, here's the rankings by wins produced. Kobe's not even the best player on his own team. LeBron's produced 12.7 wins while Kobe's produced 7.4 wins.

http://www.wagesofwins.com/AllPlayerMid0809.html

Rank, Player, Team
Games, Minutes, WP48, Wins Produced

#3 - LeBron James, Cleveland
41, 1,533, 0.398, 12.7

#13 - Pau Gasol, LA Lakers
40, 1,417, 0.254, 7.5

#14 - Kobe Bryant, LA Lakers
41, 1,498, 0.237, 7.4

Johnny W
19 Feb 09,, 04:39
IMO, Chris Paul is as good as the others. To bad he plays for the Hornets.

He doesn't score quite as much as Kobe or Lebron, because he focuses more on distributing the ball. But he still scores a lot, plus he leads the league in assist, steals, and triple doubles.

Shek
19 Feb 09,, 05:03
IMO, Chris Paul is as good as the others. To bad he plays for the Hornets.

He doesn't score quite as much as Kobe or Lebron, because he focuses more on distributing the ball. But he still scores a lot, plus he leads the league in assist, steals, and triple doubles.

He's currently the league leader this year in wins produced at almost 16. I'd have to look at and calculate his numbers from prior season to see how they stack up against his performance this season.

Shek
28 Feb 09,, 02:50
Here's a visual look at their two careers up through the end of last season.