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Shek
12 Feb 09,, 05:44
The story of Shaq vs. Kobe is an interesting one for the LA Lakers. In the summer of 2004, after having three-peated and then being back-to-back runner ups, the reign of Shaq and Kobe in LA came to an end as the Lakers chose to re-sign Kobe and Shaq demanded to be traded.

http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jun/19/sports/sp-shaq19

Up to that point, Shaq was clearly the better player than Kobe. However, the Lakers were gambling that Shaq was on the verge of showing his age, while Kobe was still up and coming.

In the end, the Lakers were validated, although there was certainly some remorse over the deal as the Miami Heat (Shaq's new team) made the NBA Finals two seasons later and the Lakers had the first losing season in a decade following the Shaq trade. However, they made it back to the finals again last year and are looking strong again.

The following graphs tell the story through the data. Using Position Adjusted Win Score per minute (PAWSmin) statistics and then extrapolating these stats to Wins Produced per 48 minutes (WP48), I've illustrated seasonal performance for both players. You can read more about these stats here, http://dberri.wordpress.com/2007/02/25/introducing-pawsmin-%E2%80%93-and-a-defense-of-box-score-statistics/.

Herodotus
12 Feb 09,, 06:17
Actually the Heat did when the championship that year so in terms of championships won Shaq is ahead of Kobe. If the Lakers don't win a title this year or next when Kobe's contract is up, rightly or wrongly that's the only number that will matter: Shaq 1-Kobe 0.

Shek
12 Feb 09,, 06:44
Actually the Heat did when the championship that year so in terms of championships won Shaq is ahead of Kobe. If the Lakers don't win a title this year or next when Kobe's contract is up, rightly or wrongly that's the only number that will matter: Shaq 1-Kobe 0.

During that championship season, Shaq only produced 8.5 wins and had the production barely above that of an average center. He wasn't leading the Heat to the finals and championship, he was just a solid member. Wade and Mourning outpaced Shaq and were more critical to winning the championship. In the following year (2006-7), Shaq was the most overpaid player in the entire NBA.

gunnut
12 Feb 09,, 06:53
You do have waaaayyyyy too much time on your hands. :biggrin:

I agree with Lakers' decision. Age is irreversible. Lakers already had some of Shaq's best years in his career. It's time to get some years out of Kobe.

Contract normally only goes up. If it came down, then the drop in performance usually is greater.

Also, Shaq is a big guy. Usually big guys have more back problems. Back problems are very hard to get rid of. The older the player is, the more difficult it is to recover from injuries, especially back injuries.

Of course there's the ego problem. Both these players have humongous egos. It's only containable if the team wins. The problem will explode if the team suffers from any type of losing streak, or even less than dominant performance.

It's amazing how the Lakers had Magic and Kareem on the same team for 9 years and 4 championships.

Herodotus
12 Feb 09,, 07:01
It's amazing how the Lakers had Magic and Kareem on the same team for 9 years and 4 championships.

5 championships as I recall, in Magic's rookie season they won. Would have been 6 except for Larry Bird. In 10 seasons from 79-80 to 88-89 the Lakers were in 8 Finals.

gunnut
12 Feb 09,, 08:45
5 championships as I recall, in Magic's rookie season they won. Would have been 6 except for Larry Bird. In 10 seasons from 79-80 to 88-89 the Lakers were in 8 Finals.

You are correct.

80
82
85
87
88

Both Magic and Byron were injured right before the finals in 1989, resulting in a sweep by the Pistons. Lakers were on fire that year until the back court was injured. They swept into the finals, winning 11 in a row.

Shek
12 Feb 09,, 12:44
You do have waaaayyyyy too much time on your hands. :biggrin:

What are you talking about - this is research and work!

Mobbme
12 Feb 09,, 18:09
You can't go by stats alone. His presence alone changed everything. He single handedly shook the whole organization of Miami into a winning organization. The reason he didn't have to produce as much was because he had his faith in Wade. He left Miami alone, they still had all their other players including a healthy Mourning, and they couldn't even win 2 games in a row; thats how big of an impact he made.

You can argue that since his trade to Phoenix, they've been losing alot more than used to. But truth be told, Phoenix NEVER won in the playoffs, and playoffs is where it matters. The reason why Shaq is producing more now is only because he's lost faith in his teammates, and his teammates are not on the same page as him; they still cry bout d'antoni leaving them lmao

Shaq vs Kobe.

Kobe had alot of competition, including Vince Carter, McGrady, Iverson etc,. But he was still the best. Shaq dominated EVERYONE. Shaq was the lone center in the league ahead of every other center by far. Duncan/Garnett were not centers.

Both were respectfully the best at their positions.

Kobe was supposed to be better in the long run -because of his age, so if he wins a champsionship this year it'll all pay off.

gunnut
12 Feb 09,, 23:45
If Shaq could hit 75% of his free throws, I would say hands down, Shaq is better than Kobe.

But he can't...:biggrin:

Herodotus
12 Feb 09,, 23:56
Well Shek is probably right, he's got the numbers. Shaq's production did decrease a lot while Kobe won a couple of scoring titles. And this year the Lakers look pretty good while Shaq is well not so good in Phoenix.

Mobbme
13 Feb 09,, 02:03
Well Shek is probably right, he's got the numbers. Shaq's production did decrease a lot while Kobe won a couple of scoring titles. And this year the Lakers look pretty good while Shaq is well not so good in Phoenix.

Actually, he's playing really good ball in Phoenix this year. He's already scored over 30 points a few times. We'll have to see how he plays in the playoffs.

Shaq made Penny Hardaway look like god, the moment Shaq left Orlando we still wonder today "what happened to that hardaway guy?"

Shek is always right, but you can show me some love too :tongue:

Parihaka
13 Feb 09,, 02:13
I vote shag vs watching basketball. Oh wait...:redface:

Mobbme
13 Feb 09,, 02:34
I vote shag vs watching basketball. Oh wait...:redface:

roflzzzzz

Me too :))

Mobbme
28 Feb 09,, 20:23
I just watched Shaq treat the laughters (Raptors) like b$$ches; he used them like a rag doll lmaoooooo

This is why Shaq beats Kobe:


''I'm the only player,'' he said, ''who looks at each and every center and says to myself, 'That's barbecued chicken down there.'''

:)):)):))