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amit
11 Mar 05,, 01:27
DHARAMSALA, India (AFP) - Exiled Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama has renewed his commitment not to seek the independence of Tibet from China provided he be left in charge of Tibetan affairs.

Photo
AFP Photo



"As long as I am responsible for the affairs of Tibet we remain fully committed to ... not seeking independence for Tibet and (are) willing to remain within the People's Republic of China," the Dalai Lama said in an address marking the 46th anniversary of the Tibetan uprising against Chinese rule.

The Dalai Lama fled into exile in India in 1959 after the uprising and established his government-in-exile in the northern Indian hill town of Dharamsala.

While he says he is seeking autonomy for Tibet within China, Beijing frequently accuses him of separatism and demands he definitively give up aspirations for independence and recognise Taiwan as part of China before a settlement can be reached.

His supporters have long accused Beijing of trying to wipe out Tibet's Buddhist-based culture through political and religious repression. Direct ties between the Dalai Lama and Beijing collapsed in 1993 and were renewed only in 2002.

In his address Thursday, the Dalai Lama expressed satisfaction at the renewed contacts with the Chinese leadership through his envoys and said he believed the third round of meetings last September showed gradual improvement in the interactions.

"We remain hopeful that eventually we will be able to develop the necessary trust and resolve this long-standing issue to our mutual benefit," he added.

"My involvement in the affairs of Tibet is not for the purpose of claiming certain personal rights or political position for myself nor attempting to stake claim for the Tibetan administration in exile."

The lack of human rights, religious freedom and self-rule in Tibet, however, had left Tibetans dissatisfied, he said, adding that Chinese leaders hold the real authority in the so-called 'Tibet Autonomous Region'.

"China's image is tarnished by her human rights records, undemocratic actions, the lack of the rule of law and unequal implementation of autonomy rights regarding minorities, including the Tibetans," the Dalai Lama said in his address.

He believed the world is changing for the better and opting for peace, non-violence, democracy, justice and environmental protection, he said, pointing to the worldwide support to victims of the December 26 tsunami as an example.

Against this backdrop, he added, China should adopt a "reasonable policy".

From: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1534&ncid=1534&e=12&u=/afp/20050310/wl_sthasia_afp/indiatibetchinadalai_050310073623


My opinon: it's sad that he has given up. I'm speechless.

Rahul
11 Mar 05,, 01:30
India and Nehru were pathetic and sold out Tibet back in the 50s. And now, the Tibetans haven't a friend in the world. My prediction is that they will eventually become like the Native Americans. 100 years from now, there wont' be any Tibetans or any Tibet. Lhasa will be just another Chinese city.

amit
11 Mar 05,, 01:55
So, the Tibet group is going to die. I thought India made a stupid decision when it recognized Tibet as apart of China in exchange for Sikkim. India should have also brought up Arunachal Pradesh.

Rahul
11 Mar 05,, 02:37
I'm just talking in general. Though I agree any Chinese claims to Arunachal pradesh would be flimsy at best as they IMO don't even have a right to be in Tibet.

Samudra
11 Mar 05,, 03:11
Sad to see Tibet disappearing into the pages of history.

Tibet , shall prove by example to this world that morality and righteousness , will in no way help any country survive.

Might and money will save you.Its better if you have friends who will look the other way when ethnic cleansing happens.

Ray
11 Mar 05,, 03:49
I don't think it is sad.

If Dalai Lama does not go to Tibet, the religion will die.

If he goes to Tibet, the religion will flourish.

The Tibetan will return to their homeland and they will once again be the larger group and will be able to establish their way of life. which has changed a lot ever since the Chinese have come and even settled there.

They will also carry the influence of the country they have lived in exile (not only India). Hence, there will be a better understanding amongst Tibetan of the world affairs and they would be in a position to influence.

However, the Colonel, who is better versed on this being the Webmaster of a Forum that studies China in detail, could throw some light.

Officer of Engineers
11 Mar 05,, 04:42
Ironically, it is American culture that is the demise of the Tibettan culture. It must be remembered that Tibet was a feudal society with the monks being the landowners and the majority of the people litterally serfs.

The Communists ain't any better but they did allow Tibet to be modernized and people could start earning money for themselves. Tibettans are being exposed to foriegn ideas such as being rich instead of devotion to religion. That more than anything spells the demise of the Dali Lama. No way are people willing to be poor again just so that the Dali Lama can have his Rolexes.

You will find pop music in Lhasa now far more than Tibettan monk chants.

lemontree
11 Mar 05,, 05:36
Tibet has a better future by being part of China. Independently they shall never have the resources to be a modern nation.

tsering
11 Mar 05,, 20:24
As long as I am responsible for the affairs of Tibet we
.


thats is the problem isnt it?as long as his holiness is alive and well things will not get out of hand otherwise i can guarantee hell.all tibetan youngeters in india are called fools when they call for armed struggle only cuz his holiness says so.imagine who will be left with any REAL authority in exile and mainland tibetan community ?panchen lama is too young and his sect is divided and all the great ones have passed away.so i suggest to my chinese cousins to give us honourable status in china like kashmir has in india so that future will not be so bitter as it is now between us.
;)

lemontree sir,

progress is not sole pregorative in life.freedom is .i would rather live poor than be a rich vassal for commies.freedom is not neccessary for me just freedom to practice our religion,culture and halt to lowlander immigration which is taking place in massive scale .

tsering
11 Mar 05,, 20:39
As long as I am responsible for the affairs of Tibet we
.


thats is the problem isnt it?as long as his holiness is alive and well things will not get out of hand otherwise i can guarantee hell.all tibetan youngeters in india are called fools when they call for armed struggle only cuz his holiness says so.imagine who will be left with any REAL authority in exile and mainland tibetan community ?panchen lama is too young and his sect is divided and all the great ones have passed away.so i suggest to my chinese cousins to give us honourable status in china like kashmir has in india so that future will not be so bitter as it is now between us.
;)

lemontree sir,

progress is not sole pregorative in life.freedom is .i would rather live poor than be a rich vassal for commies.freedom is not neccessary for me just freedom to practice our religion,culture and halt to lowlander immigration which is taking place in massive scale .


colonel sir,

this is a sad hoillywodd creation that we tibetans were all monks and what not in the old days.we were just as businesslike as chinese and traded extensively with nepal,india proper ,kashmir,ladakh and china.my own family though living in kham plains did go to india for pilgrimage and business...

we would have modernized at our own pace like bhutan is doing .and about tibet ns being serfs it is simply commie propoganda. tibet can be broadly divided into provinces of kham,amdo,bhe and of these monks had real control of only one.that is Bhe capital being lhasa.his holiness ruled from potala palace and had almost no say in the matter of kham(we had our own princeling/noble) and amdo(same).and so it is hard to believe in majority being serfes.

clergy(power drunk) had huge land grants and sure some workers lived a horrid hard life but i am absolutely sure that huge majority lived in relative harmony.why do you think monks are so popular in tibetan community?surely not for making us serf :confused: s..?


ps:my apology for this fast reply.have no time spellcheck and grammer.:(2busy doing uni project.. :mad:

Ray
11 Mar 05,, 20:56
I forgot about Tsering.

He is a Khamba (some call it Khampa) of Tibet. They are those who helped His Holiness to cross over. They are fierce lot.

Now, I presume Tsering is a modern Tibetan in exile and I am sure he is the jean clad boy eating a Macdonalds hamburger, seeing a movie at the Mutiplexes and things like that.

Therefore, it would be prudent to give him a patient ear as also the Colonel and then we will know where the situation lies.

tsering
12 Mar 05,, 17:41
I forgot about Tsering.

He is a Khamba (some call it Khampa) of Tibet. They are those who helped His Holiness to cross over. They are fierce lot.

Now, I presume Tsering is a modern Tibetan in exile and I am sure he is the jean clad boy eating a Macdonalds hamburger, seeing a movie at the Mutiplexes and things like that.

Therefore, it would be prudent to give him a patient ear as also the Colonel and then we will know where the situation lies.

actually my uncles participated on that adventure.they were hard times and my mom still gets shivers when she tanks on tv.i tell her that china couldnt have used in tibet but she is adament that she was chased by some. :confused:

Officer of Engineers
13 Mar 05,, 06:49
colonel sir,

this is a sad hoillywodd creation that we tibetans were all monks and what not in the old days.we were just as businesslike as chinese and traded extensively with nepal,india proper ,kashmir,ladakh and china.my own family though living in kham plains did go to india for pilgrimage and business...

we would have modernized at our own pace like bhutan is doing .and about tibet ns being serfs it is simply commie propoganda. tibet can be broadly divided into provinces of kham,amdo,bhe and of these monks had real control of only one.that is Bhe capital being lhasa.his holiness ruled from potala palace and had almost no say in the matter of kham(we had our own princeling/noble) and amdo(same).and so it is hard to believe in majority being serfes.

Well, that is the point, isn't it? The Tibettants are modernized whether you like it or not and where the hell do feudal Tibettan monk wannabe landowners fit in that modernization? No where!

tsering
13 Mar 05,, 17:38
Well, that is the point, isn't it? The Tibettants are modernized whether you like it or not and where the hell do feudal Tibettan monk wannabe landowners fit in that modernization? No where!

sir,

i am afraid i dont get your point.in case you are pointing out that we were a bunch of medievals than you are correct. we were peaceful and no threat to anyone and yes we were content with our lot.we didnt need Mad Mao to progress.i have talked to lots of oldtimers and even when they speak of hardships in the homelans they do it with love.

and monks NEVER had the power to enforce anthing outside of his sect geluk.dalai lama was TITULAR head , kham and amdo went their own happy way.we were not serfs under evil monks like communists potray.even today monks are respected in our community not feared or hated. :rolleyes:

lemontree
14 Mar 05,, 04:59
lemontree sir,

progress is not sole pregorative in life.freedom is .i would rather live poor than be a rich vassal for commies.freedom is not neccessary for me just freedom to practice our religion,culture and halt to lowlander immigration which is taking place in massive scale .

I agree with you tsering. But the PRC is a strong opponent and will not allow Tibet out off its grasp. Tibet has to grow, and the fire has to simmer so that you are not taken for granted by the CCP. The CCP will continue to change the demographs of Tibet by bringing in Han and other ethnic chinese people into Tibet. It is for you and your people to address that issue. Violent means will never succeed against the CCP, you have to use the less dramatic but effective tools of Mahatma Gandhi ( and the media).

amit
15 Mar 05,, 00:49
I can see why India would want Tibet's independence. If Tibet were to gain independence, I can see that it will be like India and Bhutan's relation. India will have control over Tibet to a certain extent. A free Tibet would help India because it would create a large buffer zone and India will lose it's entire border with China except for Arunachal Pradesh.

Also, if a war between China and Taiwan were to come. Still, war is unlikely. But suppose. A victorious Tawian would likely order China to give up Tibet. Not sure about Hong Kong, though. They are just a little area of skyscrapers, and no farmland. I don't think an independent Hong Kong will work.

Rahul
15 Mar 05,, 03:16
A victorious Tawian would likely order China to give up Tibet.
Chances are it won't because AFAIK, the "Republic of China" (Taiwan) considers Tibet part of China as does the PRC. Hong Kong won't be let go either. I just don't see any reason for it too. For the Tibetans, if such a thing were to happen, it'd fall on them to seize their own independence as nobody will do it for them (especially not India, which still hasn't shaken off its usual "defender of the 3rd world" and "hindi-chinni-bhai-bhai" idealistic nonsense vis a vis China). However, such a scenario I'd hope doesn't happen as we'll certainly be drawn into it as we have an obligation to defend Taiwan.

keshto patel
15 Mar 05,, 07:28
But suppose. A victorious Tawian would likely order China to give up Tibet. Not sure about Hong Kong, though. They are just a little area of skyscrapers, and no farmland. I don't think an independent Hong Kong will work.


Do you know the ratio of military balance between the two? what are the odds?

Do you dream in colour or black n white?

As for formusa (taiwan) a cat does not bark and as for amit a dog does not mew.


When you say God would end up in six months, million questions would pop up, and nobody but you would have a onus to satisfy those.

Have a good time of yr life.
No harm intended.

After thought: on a forum its impossible to build castles in the air.
Take it to the bank.

amit
16 Mar 05,, 00:53
Keshto. I said "suppose". I NEVER said that it would happen. I take what you said as an insult. Also, just because an army is large doesn't mean it will win. Look at Vietnam. The communist army was tiny, but they still defeated the USA.

ajaybhutani
16 Mar 05,, 01:14
well china wont get much from attacking taiwan for taiwaneese wishes are clearly shown by their elected leaders and any aggression on them will either lead to defeat of china or china eventually forced to leave by taiwaneese people. Its high time china realises that taiwan isnt theirs.

Alastair
19 Mar 05,, 11:56
My prediction is that they will eventually become like the Native Americans. 100 years from now, there wont' be any Tibetans or any Tibet. Lhasa will be just another Chinese city.

I don't agree with you,Tibet has her own unique culture which is different from any other place in the world. on the surface,and yes,globalization and modernization are influencing everywhere. But for tibetans,who has several thousands years history of living in spiritual life,still obey what Sakyamuni had told them before,maintaining the simple live as always.

Alastair
19 Mar 05,, 12:19
Also, if a war between China and Taiwan were to come. Still, war is unlikely. But suppose. A victorious Tawian would likely order China to give up Tibet. Not sure about Hong Kong, though. They are just a little area of skyscrapers, and no farmland. I don't think an independent Hong Kong will work.

Hey guy! u are so funny :biggrin: If you are right,i would move into Taiwan as soon as possible cause mainland is no longer safe,or i should stay here waiting for the liberation by Taiwanese :)

well actually,no matter PRC or POC,they both declaim Tibet is the part of China.so that's impossible as you said:Taiwan would likely order China to give up Tibet.Even if the Mongolia,POC in Taiwan still declaims it belong to POC.but PRC in mainland gives it up.

amit
19 Mar 05,, 23:56
Alastair, I'm sorry to say that your government brainwashes you all. 10% of internet sites are banned. They banned google for a while until Google changed parts of the site for the Chinese. Also, most Tibet people do not know of the Dali Lama. So sad. :( Anyway, how about if China takes over the world. Everything is integral. This is how China justifies it's calim to Arunachal Pradesh in India: Since Arunachal Pradesh was once apart of Tibet, it thus, belongs to China. If you think about it, that can justify China taking over the world. LOL

Alastair
20 Mar 05,, 03:41
Alastair, I'm sorry to say that your government brainwashes you all. 10% of internet sites are banned. They banned google for a while until Google changed parts of the site for the Chinese.

Bascially i agree with you.CCP banned some websites such as Tian an men square event,Fa lun gong,Tibet indepantent,and which against CCP's ruling in China etc. BUT please do not consider that chinese ppl know nothing,on the contrary,they know all of these. Things are different from before in China.Brainwashes,this word is no longer accord with the situation here.

PS:Chinese internet users is about 100,000,000 ,the number is still growing.what the Google changed parts of the site is chinese,not english.So it seems to me that there is no barrier to surf.


Also, most Tibet people do not know of the Dali Lama. So sad. :(


you must watch the western media very often :biggrin: I can tell you the turth is absolutely not.my father has been to Tibet, he told me that many family has two pictures on the wall.one is Dalai lama,with another aga(i forget his english name). And yes in the past,Tibet was banned to talk about Dalai Lama.Now is changed.

PS: i m planing visit Tibet this summer :cool:


Anyway, how about if China takes over the world.

It is ridiculous for a chinese hearing these words.Chinese havn't any ambitions to rule the world,no matter in the past china had reach her peak in ancient time,or in the future. Invasion and colonialism hasn't got any position in chinese political theory.

ajaybhutani
20 Mar 05,, 16:02
I don't agree with you,Tibet has her own unique culture which is different from any other place in the world. on the surface,and yes,globalization and modernization are influencing everywhere. But for tibetans,who has several thousands years history of living in spiritual life,still obey what Sakyamuni had told them before,maintaining the simple live as always.
Praying a Dalai lama in the name of religion and giving him a right to own everything the nation has is surely not written in any religion. There are always some things right and some things wrong in a culture. Tibet surely has its part of the wrong stuff. I dont approve of an idea of putting cultural/religious leaders as your economic and political decision makers. The people dont select their leaders there . It was a problem at the time of the old tibetian culture and its the problem even today in the chineese rule. But surely i'll say the chineese one is better . At least it is still based on more equal and freer policies than the older tibetan form of govt.

Officer of Engineers
21 Mar 05,, 14:41
sir,

i am afraid i dont get your point.in case you are pointing out that we were a bunch of medievals than you are correct. we were peaceful and no threat to anyone and yes we were content with our lot.we didnt need Mad Mao to progress.i have talked to lots of oldtimers and even when they speak of hardships in the homelans they do it with love.

and monks NEVER had the power to enforce anthing outside of his sect geluk.dalai lama was TITULAR head , kham and amdo went their own happy way.we were not serfs under evil monks like communists potray.even today monks are respected in our community not feared or hated. :rolleyes:

You're missing the point. The kids in 21st Century Tibet today have no desire to return to 18th Century Tibet and the monks ain't offerring anything about 21st Century.