View Full Version : Taliban giving up the fight?

09 Mar 05,, 15:14
Taliban Giving Up In Afghanistan?

By Captain Ed on War on Terror

The Taliban, who once embodied the ideal of Islamofascism in their brutal tyranny over the Afghan people, have all but stopped their terrorist war against the Hamid Karzai democracy. In fact, thanks to a high-ranking and popular defector from the previous regime, the Taliban remnants have surrendered in order to join an amnesty program that promises to end the civil war and secure the Afghani democracy:

One of the Taliban's most senior and charismatic commanders has become a key negotiator as more and more members of the Islamic militia in Afghanistan give up the fight against the Americans.

The commander, Abdul Salam, earned the nickname Mullah Rockety because he was so accurate with rocket propelled grenades against Russian troops. ...

After the Taliban's three-year struggle against a superior US force, there is growing optimism among the Americans and Afghan government that the end is close.

More than 1,000 people have died in violence in the past 18 months, but attacks have tailed off since the guerrillas failed to make good their vow to disrupt the presidential election in October, which saw a huge turnout and was won by Mr Karzai.

Zalmay Khalilzad, the US ambassador to Afghanistan, said yesterday that a group of Taliban militia including senior officials will soon join the Afghan government's peace initiative.

"They are in Kabul seeking peace and to boost the reconciliation process," he said, adding that he was hopeful that the Taliban surrender would take place before the parliamentary elections, expected in the summer.

Will anyone report that the war is over when the Taliban come out of the hills and join the free Afghan people? Doubtful. The American media have all fled the success of Afghanistan and only one or two reporters remain to document Karzai's bold and effective initiative to entice lower-level Taliban to come in from the cold. Only Mullah Omar and around 150 or so terrorist leaders have no eligibility for the amnesty program, and former officials held in high regard such as Salam have campaigned to draw the eligible into it.

Omar, for his part, scoffs at the notion that any of his followers would lose faith in his leadership and vision. Omar insists that the lull is due only to bad weather, and plans a major spring offensive against US and Karzai-loyal troops. In that sense, he is a figure reminiscent of Adolf Hitler in his last bunker days, giving orders for grand strategies to non-existent armies while his lackeys plan their escape.

The Afghans have taken well to democracy, another example of a region long shortchanged by the bigotry of the West, where people insisted that Afghans could not be trusted with self-determination. Bush proved that democracy transforms, and now even a good portion of the Taliban have seen it for themselves.

09 Mar 05,, 19:05

Don't trust any terror organisation.

I hate Lulls in battle.

They are dangerous.

The lull before the storm.

09 Mar 05,, 20:43
Just putting it out there for consumption sir.

Feel free to draw thine own conclusions. ;)

09 Mar 05,, 20:59
Well it is all about money.

The Taliban only took control of so much of Afghanistan because they were given money and were thus able to bribe people. Mazar-e-Sharif fell because they paid bribes. Kabul only fell because of bribes. I could go on and on. Very often when they faced a defensive line they were unable to make any headway and of course their tactics were not terribly modern. Taliban units were easy to counter attack as they poorly handled their supplies. So if they made a dash they often got forced back to square one minus a few hundred guys.

And lets not forget Pakistan is no longer sending over infantry units, Special Forces, pilots and advisors to help them. Even with all that help if they could not bribe they often had to make bloody head on assaults. Pakistanis had to act as FOs to allow Taliban guns to hit anything more presise then randomly hitting a city. Taliban airpower is gone. They have lost their tanks and infantry fighting vehicles.

Once they lost the "Jihad" war chest and faced an enemy with a far bigger war chest the writing was on the wall. And thats ignoring the average American rifleman is more often then not better then the best Taliban fighter in skills such as hitting a target. And then we have the USAF/USN/USMC airpower which is something the IEAAF could only have wet dreams about.

Already the Taliban was opposed by Iran, Russia, the CIS and India, and Pakistan can no longer offer much help without getting on our list...

Now they are acting mostly as bandits in the Pashtun areas and launching attacks but unless someone gets the balls (and losses their brains) to fund and arm them this will not turn into our Afghanistan...

09 Mar 05,, 21:12
This is from the Middle East Quarterly 2005

Tablighi Jamaat: Jihad's Stealthy Legions
by Alex Alexiev

Every fall, over a million almost identically dressed, bearded Muslim men from around the world descend on the small Pakistani town of Raiwind for a three-day celebration of faith. Similar gatherings take place annually outside of Dhaka, Bangladesh, and Bhopal, India. These pilgrims are no ordinary Muslims, though; they belong to a movement called Tablighi Jamaat ("Proselytizing Group"). They are trained missionaries who have dedicated much of their lives to spreading Islam across the globe. The largest group of religious proselytizers of any faith, they are part of the reason for the explosive growth of Islamic religious fervor and conversion.

Despite its size, worldwide presence, and tremendous importance, Tablighi Jamaat remains largely unknown outside the Muslim community, even to many scholars of Islam. This is no coincidence. Tablighi Jamaat officials work to remain outside of both media and governmental notice. Tablighi Jamaat neither has formal organizational structure nor does it publish details about the scope of its activities, its membership, or its finances. By eschewing open discussion of politics and portraying itself only as a pietistic movement, Tablighi Jamaat works to project a non-threatening image. Because of the movement's secrecy, scholars often have no choice but to rely on explanations from Tablighi Jamaat acolytes.

As a result, academics tend to describe the group as an apolitical devotional movement stressing individual faith, introspection, and spiritual development. The austere and egalitarian lifestyle of Tablighi missionaries and their principled stands against social ills leads many outside observers to assume that the group has a positive influence on society. Graham Fuller, a former CIA official and expert on Islam, for example, characterized Tablighi Jamaat as a "peaceful and apolitical preaching-to-the-people movement."[1] Barbara Metcalf, a University of California scholar of South Asian Islam, called Tablighi Jamaat "an apolitical, quietist movement of internal grassroots missionary renewal" and compares its activities to the efforts to reshape individual lives by Alcoholics Anonymous.[2] Olivier Roy, a prominent authority on Islam at Paris's prestigious Centre National de la Recherche Scientifique, described Tablighi Jamaat as "completely apolitical and law abiding."[3] Governments normally intolerant of independent movements often make an exception for Tablighi Jamaat. The Bangladeshi prime minister and top political leadership, many of whom are Islamists, regularly attend their rallies, and Pakistani military officers, many of whom are sympathetic to militant Islam, even allow Tablighi missionaries to preach in the barracks.

Yet, the Pakistani experience strips the patina from Tablighi Jamaat's façade. Pakistani prime minister Nawaz Sharif (1990-93; 1997-99), whose father was a prominent Tablighi member and financier, helped Tablighi members take prominent positions.[4] For example, in 1998, Muhammad Rafique Tarar took the ceremonial presidency while, in 1990, Javed Nasir assumed the powerful director-generalship of the Inter-Services Intelligence, Pakistan's chief intelligence agency. When Benazir Bhutto, less sympathetic to Islamist causes, returned to the premiership in 1993, Tablighis conspired to overthrow her government. In 1995, the Pakistani army thwarted a coup attempt by several dozen high-ranking military officers and civilians, all of whom were members of the Tablighi Jamaat and some of whom also held membership in Harakat ul-Mujahideen, a U.S. State Department-defined terrorist organization.[5] Some of the confusion over Tablighi Jamaat's apolitical characterization derives from the fact that the movement does not consider individual states to be legitimate. They may not become actively involved in internal politics or disputes over local issues, but, from a philosophical and transnational perspective, the Tablighi Jamaat's millenarian philosophy is very political indeed. According to the French Tablighi expert Marc Gaborieau, its ultimate objective is nothing short of a "planned conquest of the world" in the spirit of jihad.[6]

Origins and Ideology

The prominent Deobandi cleric and scholar Maulana Muhammad Ilyas Kandhalawi (1885-1944) launched Tablighi Jamaat in 1927 in Mewat, India, not far from Delhi. From its inception, the extremist attitudes that characterize Deobandism permeated Tablighi philosophy. Ilyas's followers were intolerant of other Muslims and especially Shi‘ites, let alone adherents of other faiths. Indeed, part of Ilyas's impetus for founding Tablighi Jamaat was to counter the inroads being made by Hindu missionaries. They rejected modernity as antithetical to Islam, excluded women, and preached that Islam must subsume all other religions.[7] The creed grew in importance after Pakistani military dictator Zia ul-Haq encouraged Deobandis to Islamize Pakistan.

The Tablighi Jamaat canon is bare-boned. Apart from the Qu'ran, the only literature Tablighis are required to read are the Tablighi Nisab, seven essays penned by a companion of Ilyas in the 1920s. Tablighi Jamaat is not a monolith: one subsection believes they should pursue jihad through conscience (jihad bin nafs) while a more radical wing advocates jihad through the sword (jihad bin saif).[8] But, in practice, all Tablighis preach a creed that is hardly distinguishable from the radical Wahhabi-Salafi jihadist ideology that so many terrorists share.

Part of the reason why the Tablighi Jamaat leadership can maintain such strict secrecy is its dynastic flavor. All Tablighi Jamaat leaders since Ilyas have been related to him by either blood or marriage. Upon Ilyas' 1944 death, his son, Maulana Muhammad Yusuf (1917-65), assumed leadership of the movement, dramatically expanding its reach and influence. Following the partition of India, Tablighi Jamaat spread rapidly in the new Muslim nation of Pakistan. Yusuf and his successor, Inamul Hassan (1965-95), transformed Tablighi Jamaat into a truly transnational movement with a renewed emphasis targeting conversion of non-Muslims, a mission the movement continues to the present day.

While few details are known about the group's structure, at the top sits the emir who, according to some observers, presides over a shura (council), which plays an advisory role. Further down are individual country organizations. By the late 1960s, Tablighi Jamaat had not only established itself in Western Europe and North America but even claimed adherents in countries like Japan, which has no significant Muslim population.

The movement's rapid penetration into non-Muslim regions began in the 1970s and coincides with the establishment of a synergistic relationship between Saudi Wahhabis and South Asian Deobandis. While Wahhabis are dismissive of other Islamic schools, they single out Tablighi Jamaat for praise, even if they disagree with some of its practices, such as willingness to pray in mosques housing graves. The late Sheikh ‘Abd al ‘Aziz ibn Baz, perhaps the most influential Wahhabi cleric in the late twentieth century, recognized the Tablighis good work and encouraged his Wahhabi brethren to go on missions with them so that they can "guide and advise them."[9] A practical result of this cooperation has been large-scale Saudi financing of Tablighi Jamaat. While Tablighi Jamaat in theory requires its missionaries to cover their own expenses during their trips, in practice, Saudi money subsidizes transportation costs for thousands of poor missionaries. While Tablighi Jamaat's financial activities are shrouded in secrecy, there is no doubt that some of the vast sums spent by Saudi organizations such as the World Muslim League on proselytism benefit Tablighi Jamaat. As early as 1978, the World Muslim League subsidized the building of the Tablighi mosque in Dewsbury, England, which has since become the headquarters of Tablighi Jamaat in all of Europe.[10] Wahhabi sources have paid Tablighi missionaries in Africa salaries higher than the European Union pays teachers in Zanzibar.[11] In both Western Europe and the United States, Tablighis operate interchangeably out of Deobandi and Wahhabi controlled mosques and Islamic centers.\

Wolf in Sheep's Clothing

The West's misreading of Tablighi Jamaat actions and motives has serious implications for the war on terrorism. Tablighi Jamaat has always adopted an extreme interpretation of Sunni Islam, but in the past two decades, it has radicalized to the point where it is now a driving force of Islamic extremism and a major recruiting agency for terrorist causes worldwide. For a majority of young Muslim extremists, joining Tablighi Jamaat is the first step on the road to extremism. Perhaps 80 percent of the Islamist extremists in France come from Tablighi ranks, prompting French intelligence officers to call Tablighi Jamaat the "antechamber of fundamentalism."[12] U.S. counterterrorism officials are increasingly adopting the same attitude. "We have a significant presence of Tablighi Jamaat in the United States," the deputy chief of the FBI's international terrorism section said in 2003, "and we have found that Al-Qaeda used them for recruiting now and in the past."[13]

Recruitment methods for young jihadists are almost identical. After joining Tablighi Jamaat groups at a local mosque or Islamic center and doing a few local dawa (proselytism) missions, Tablighi officials invite star recruits to the Tablighi center in Raiwind, Pakistan, for four months of additional missionary training. Representatives of terrorist organizations approach the students at the Raiwind center and invite them to undertake military training.[14] Most agree to do so.

Tablighi Jamaat has long been directly involved in the sponsorship of terrorist groups. Pakistani and Indian observers believe, for instance, that Tablighi Jamaat was instrumental in founding Harakat ul-Mujahideen. Founded at Raiwind in 1980, almost all of the Harakat ul-Mujahideen's original members were Tablighis. Famous for the December 1998 hijacking of an Air India passenger jet and the May 8, 2002 murder of a busload of French engineers in Karachi, Harakat members make no secret of their ties. "The two organizations together make up a truly international network of genuine jihadi Muslims," one senior Harakat ul-Mujahideen official said.[15] More than 6,000 Tablighis have trained in Harakat ul-Mujahideen camps. Many fought in Afghanistan in the 1980s and readily joined Al-Qaeda after the Taliban defeated Afghanistan's anti-Soviet mujahideen.[16]

Another violent Tablighi Jamaat spin-off is the Harakat ul-Jihad-i Islami.[17] Founded in the aftermath of the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, this group has been active not only in the disputed Indian provinces of Jammu and Kashmir but also in the state of Gujarat, where Tablighi Jamaat extremists have taken over perhaps 80 percent of the mosques previously run by the moderate Barelvi Muslims.[18] The Tablighi movement is also very active in northern Africa where it became one of the four groups that founded the Islamic Salvation Front in Algeria. Moroccan authorities are currently prosecuting sixty members of the Moroccan Tablighi offshoot Dawa wa Tabligh in connection with the May 16, 2003 terrorist attack on a Casablanca synagogue.[19] Dutch police are investigating links between the Moroccan cells and the November 2, 2004 murder of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh.[20]

There are many other cases of individual Tablighis committing acts of terrorism. French Tablighi members, for example, have helped organize and execute attacks not only in Paris but also at the Hotel Asni in Marrakech in 1994.[21] Kazakh authorities expelled a number of Tablighi missionaries because they had been organizing networks advancing "extremist propaganda and recruitment."[22] Indian investigators suspect influential Tablighi leader, Maulana Umarji, and a group of his followers in the February 27, 2002 fire bombing of a train carrying Hindu nationalists in Gujarat, India. The incident sparked a wave of pogroms victimizing both Muslims and Hindus.[23] More recently, Moroccan authorities sentenced Yusef Fikri, a Tablighi member and leader of the Moroccan terrorist organization At-Takfir wal-Hijrah, to death for his role in masterminding the May 2003 Casablanca terrorist bombings that claimed more than forty lives.[24]

Tablighi Jamaat has also facilitated other terrorists' missions. The group has provided logistical support and helped procure travel documents. Many take advantage of Tablighi Jamaat's benign reputation. Moroccan authorities say that leaflets circulated by the terrorist group Al-Salafiyah al-Jihadiyah urged their members to join Islamic organizations that operate openly, such as Tablighi Jamaat, in order "to hide their identity on the one hand and influence these groups and their policies on the other."[25] In a similar vein, a Pakistani jihadi website commented that Tablighi Jamaat organizational structures can be easily adopted to jihad activities.[26] The Philippine government has accused Tablighi Jamaat, which has an 11,000-member presence in the country, of serving both as a conduit of Saudi money to the Islamic terrorists in the south and as a cover for Pakistani jihad volunteers.[27]

There is also evidence that Tablighi Jamaat directly recruits for terrorist organizations. As early as the 1980s, the movement sponsored military training for 900 recruits annually in Pakistan and Algeria while, in 1999, Uzbek authorities accused Tablighi Jamaat of sending 400 Uzbeks to terrorist training camps.[28] The West is not immune. British counterterrorism authorities estimate that at least 2,000 British nationals had gone to Pakistan for jihad training by 1998, and the French secret services report that between 80 and 100 French nationals fought for Al-Qaeda.[29]

A Trojan Horse for Terror in America?

Within the United States, the cases of American Taliban John Lindh, the "Lackawanna Six," and the Oregon cell that conspired to bomb a synagogue and sought to link up with Al-Qaeda,[30] all involve Tablighi missionaries.[31] Other indicted terrorists, such as "shoe bomber" Richard Reid, "dirty bomber" Jose Padilla, and Lyman Harris, who sought to bomb the Brooklyn Bridge, were all members of Tablighi Jamaat at one time or another.[32] According to Robert Blitzer, head of the FBI's first Islamic counterterrorism unit, between 1,000 and 2,000 Americans left to join the jihad in the 1990s alone.[33] Pakistani intelligence sources report that 400 American Tablighi recruits received training in Pakistani or Afghan terrorist camps since 1989.[34]

The Tablighi Jamaat has made inroads among two very different segments of the American Muslim population. Because many American Muslims are immigrants, and a large subsection of these are from South Asia, Deobandi influences have been able to penetrate deeply. Many Tablighi Jamaat missionaries speak Urdu as a first language and so can communicate easily with American Muslims of South Asian origin. The Tablighi headquarters in the United States for the past decade appears to be in the Al-Falah mosque in Queens, New York. Its missionaries—predominantly from South Asia—regularly visit Sunni mosques and Islamic centers across the country.[35] The willingness of Saudi-controlled front organizations and charities, such as the World Muslim League, the World Assembly of Muslim Youth (WAMY), the Haramain Foundation, the International Islamic Relief Organization (IIRO) and others, to spend large amounts of money to co-opt the religious establishment has helped catalyze recruitment. As a result Wahhabi and Deobandi influence dominate American Islam.[36]

This trend is apparent in the activities of Tanzeem-e Islami. Founded by long-term Tablighi member and passionate Taliban supporter, Israr Ahmed, Tanzeem-e Islami flooded American Muslim organizations with communications accusing Israel of complicity in the 9/11 terror attacks.[37] A frequent featured speaker at Islamic conferences and events in the United States, Ahmed engages in incendiary rhetoric urging his audiences to prepare for "the final showdown between the Muslim world and the non-Muslim world, which has been captured by the Jews."[38] Unfortunately, his conspiracy theories have begun to take hold among growing segments of the American Muslim community. For example, Siraj Wahhaj, among the best known African-American Muslim converts and the first Muslim cleric to lead prayers in the U.S. Congress, is also on record accusing the FBI and the CIA of being the "real terrorists." He has expressed his support for the convicted mastermind of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, and advocating the demise of American democracy.[39]

Tablighi Jamaat has appealed to African American Muslims for other reasons. Founded by Elijah Mohammed in the early 1930s, the Nation of Islam was essentially a charismatic African American separatist organization which had little to do with normative Islam. Many Nation of Islam members found attractive both the Tablighi Jamaat's anti-state separatist message and its description of American society as racist, decadent, and oppressive. Seeing such fertile ground, Tablighi and Wahhabi missionaries targeted the African American community with great success. One Tablighi sympathizer explained,

The umma [Muslim community] must remember that winning over the black Muslims is not only a religious obligation but also a selfish necessity. The votes of the black Muslims can give the immigrant Muslims the political clout they need at every stage to protect their vital interests. Likewise, outside Muslim states like Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, and Pakistan need to mobilize their effort, money, and missionary skills to expand and consolidate the black Muslim community in the USA, not only for religious reasons, but also as a farsighted investment in the black Muslims' immense potential as a credible lobby for Muslim causes, such as Palestine, Bosnia, or Kashmir—offsetting, at least partially, the venal influence of the powerful India-Israel lobby.[40]

Not only foreign Tablighis but also the movement's sympathizers within the United States enunciate this goal. The president of the Islamic Research Foundation in Louisville, Kentucky, a strong advocate of Tablighi missionary work, for instance, insists that "if all the Afro-American brothers and sisters become Muslims, we can change the political landscape of America" and "make U.S. foreign policy pro-Islamic and Muslim friendly."[41] As a result of Tablighi and Wahhabi proselytizing, African Americans comprise between 30 and 40 percent of the American Muslim community, and perhaps 85 percent of all American Muslim converts. Much of this success is due to a successful proselytizing drive in the penitentiary system. Prison officials say that by the mid-1990s, between 10 and 20 percent of the nation's 1.5 million inmates identified themselves as Muslims. Some 30,000 African Americans convert to Islam in prison every year.[42]

The American political system tolerates all views so long as they adhere to the rule of law. Unfortunately, Tablighi Jamaat missionaries may be encouraging African American recruits to break the law. Harkat ul-Mujahideen has boasted of training dozens of African American jihadists in its military camps. There is evidence that African American jihadists have died in both Afghanistan and Kashmir.[43]

Tablighi Jamaat: The Future of American Islam?

Tablighi Jamaat has made unprecedented strides in recent decades. It increasingly relies on local missionaries rather than South Asian Tablighis to recruit in Western countries and often sets up groups which apparently model themselves after Tablighi Jamaat but do not acknowledge links to it.[44]

In the United States, such a role is apparently played by the Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA). Founded in 1968 as an offshoot of the fiercely Islamist Muslim Student Association,[45] ICNA is the only major American Muslim organization that has paid open homage to Tablighi founder Ilyas. The monthly ICNA publication, The Message, has praised Ilyas as one of the four greatest Islamic leaders of the last 100 years.[46] While the relationship between ICNA and Tablighi Jamaat is not clear, the two organizations share a number of similarities. They both embrace the extreme Deobandi and Wahhabi interpretations of Islam. ICNA demonstrates disdain for Western democratic values and opposes virtually all counterterrorism legislation, such as the Patriot Act, while providing moral and financial support to all Muslims implicated in terrorist activities. An editorial in the ICNA organ, The Message International, in September 1989 bemoaned the "uncounted number of Muslims lost to Western values" which was a "major cause for concern."[47] In 2003 and 2004, ICNA has collected money to assist detainees suspected of terrorist activities, participated in pro-terrorist rallies, and mounted campaigns on behalf of indicted Hamas functionary Sami al-Arian.[48] Like Tablighi Jamaat, ICNA initially drew its membership disproportionately from South Asians. As with Tablighi Jamaat, ICNA demands total dedication to missionary work from its members. Because many ICNA members spend at least thirty hours per week on their mission,[49] their ability to independently support themselves is unclear. Many cannot hold full-time jobs. ICNA's recruitment efforts have borne fruit, though. All ICNA members are organized in small study groups of no more than eight people, called NeighborNets. As in a cult, these cells provide support and reinforcement for new recruits, who may have sought to fill a void in their lives. Its yearly convocations, patterned on the annual Tablighi Jamaat meetings in South Asia, now attract some 15,000 people.[50]


The estimated 15,000 Tablighi missionaries reportedly active in the United States present a serious national security problem.[51] At best, they and their proxy groups form a powerful proselytizing movement that preaches extremism and disdain for religious tolerance, democracy, and separation of church and state. At worst, they represent an Islamist fifth column that aids and abets terrorism. Contrary to their benign treatment by scholars and academics, Tablighi Jamaat has more to do with political sedition than with religion.

U.S. officials should focus on reality rather than rhetoric. Pakistani and Saudi support for Tablighi Jamaat is incompatible with their claims to be key allies in the war on terror. While law enforcement focuses attention on Osama bin Laden, the war on terrorism cannot be won unless al-Qaeda terrorists are understood to be the products of Islamist ideology preached by groups like Tablighi Jamaat. If the West chooses to turn a blind eye to the problem, Tablighi involvement in future terrorist activities at home and abroad is not a matter of conjecture; it is a certainty.

Alex Alexiev is vice president for research at the Center for Security Policy in Washington, D.C.

[1] Graham Fuller, "The Future of Political Islam," Foreign Affairs, Mar.-Apr., 2002, p. 49.
[2] Barbara Metcalf, "Traditionalist Islamic Activism: Deoband, Tablighis and Talibs," Social Service Research Council, Nov. 1, 2004.
[3] Le Monde Diplomatique (Paris), May 15, 2002.
[4] B. Raman, "Nawaz in a Whirlpool," South Asia Analysis Group, Oct. 10, 1999.
[5] The News (Lahore), Feb. 13, 1995.
[6] Marc Gaborieau, "Transnational Islamic Movements: Tablighi Jamaat in Politics," ISIM Newsletter (International Institute for the Study of Islam in the Modern World), July 1999, p. 21.
[7] Dietrich Reetz, "Keeping Busy on the Path of Allah: The Self-Organization (intizam) of Tablighi Jamaat," in Daniela Bredi, ed., Islam in Contemporary South Asia (Rome: Oriente Moderno, 2004), pp. 295-305.
[8] B. Raman, "Dagestan: Focus on Pakistan's Tablighi Jamaat," South Asia Analysis Group, Sept. 15, 1999.
[9] "Fatwa of Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azeez ibn Baaz regarding the Jamaa'ah at-Tableegh," fatwa-online.com, Safar 11, 1414 (July 31, 1993).
[10] Financial Times, Apr. 12, 1982.
[11] Associated Press, Feb. 22, 2004.
[12] Le Monde (Paris), Jan. 25, 2002.
[13] The New York Times, July 14, 2003.
[14] U.S. News and World Report, June 10, 2002.
[15] Raman, "Dagestan: Focus on Pakistan's Tablighi Jamaat."
[16] Ibid.
[17] The News, Feb. 13, 1995, cited in ibid.
[18] Frontline, Public Broadcasting Service, Mar. 16-29, 2003.
[19] Financial Times, Aug. 6, 2003.
[20] The New York Times, Nov. 25, 2004.
[21] Le Monde, Sept. 26, 2001.
[22] Kazakhstan Today News Service, June 13, 2003.
[23] India Today (New Delhi), Feb. 24, 2003.
[24] BBC News, July 12, 2003.
[25] Asharq al-Awsat (London), May 25, 2003.
[26] Mufti Khubaib Sahib, "Advantageous Structure for the Jihaad Organisations," 2600 News, Nov. 16, 2004.
[27] Manila Times, Oct. 12, 2001.
[28] Surya Gangadharan, "Exploring Jihad: The Case of Algeria," Strategic Affairs (New Delhi), Feb. 1, 2001.
[29] Ori Golan, "On the Day the Black Flag of Islam will be Flying over Downing Street," The Jerusalem Post, June 26, 2003; Le Parisien, Dec. 26, 2001.
[30] The Oregonian (Portland), Oct. 11, 2002.
[31] The New York Times, July 14, 2003.
[32] Jessica Stern, "The Protean Enemy," Foreign Affairs, July/Aug. 2003.
[33] U.S. News and World Report, June 10, 2002.
[34] Ibid.
[35] The New York Times, July 14, 2003.
[36] Daniel Pipes, Militant Islam Reaches America (New York: W.W. Norton & Co., 2003),
[37] The Independent, Oct. 1, 2001.
[38] Sept. 11, 1995 ISNA convention, cited in Raman, "Dagestan: Focus on Pakistan's Tablighi Jamaat."
[39] The Wall Street Journal, Oct. 24, 2003.
[40] Dawn (Karachi), Jan. 12, 1996.
[41] Ibrahim B. Syed, "Juneteenth," Islamic Research Foundation International, Inc., Louisville, Ky., n.d.
[42] Religion News Service, Jan. 23, 1996.
[43] U.S. News and World Report, June 10, 2002.
[44] Ibid.
[45] Jonathan Dowd-Gailey, "Islamism's Campus Club: The Muslim Students Association," Middle East Quarterly, Spring 2004, pp. 63-72.
[46] "Great Leaders of Last 100 Years," The Message International Online (Jamaica, N.Y.), Dec. 22, 2004.
[47] The Message International, Sept. 1989, p. 6.
[48] The Washington Post, May 29, 2003.
[49] "About ICNA," Islamic Circle of North America, Dec. 22, 2004.
[50] Ibid.
[51] Aminah Mohammad-Arif, "Ilyas et Mawdudi au Pays des Yankees: La Tablighi Jamaat et la Jamaat Islami aux Etats-Unis," Archive des Sciences Sociales des Religions, Jan.-Mar. 2002.

09 Mar 05,, 21:16
Pretty good analysis Troung.

09 Mar 05,, 21:21
Actually, Karzai sadly controls Kabul alone.

Remainder is with the warlords who will sway where the money comes from and the loyalty will remain till the cash flow remains.

09 Mar 05,, 21:44
Well, America has lots of money.

09 Mar 05,, 21:53
"Pretty good analysis Troung."


"Actually, Karzai sadly controls Kabul alone."

Well that is a given. He was not really a member of the UF/NA like Khan, Dostum, Fahim and Massoud and lacks their base of support or troops to call on. He did spend time in a Massoud jail after all ;) . Dostum can fall back to Mazar-e-Sharif and call on his Uzbek forces and Fahim can fall back on the Tajiks while Karzia really can't do the same. And lets not forget these warlords have friends in other nations like Russia, Iran, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Turkey and even India.

But as long as Karzia balances things with our help it should not get out of hand. But of course the warlords don't show him much respect like Khan and keeping tax reveunes to spend in his provinces and Dostum pillaging a provincal capital last year. Of course the major warlords know our power and love our money so they will stay in line. We have had shootouts with minor warlords (ex Taliban) in Pasthun areas. The big timers would not have much to gain by fighting us and thus weakening their own forces and thus risk losing power in their areas.

Najibullah's "divide and rule" in the late 1980s pretty much ruined the nation. It is divided and impossible to rule under one government. Ethnic issues made it so we had to put a Pashtun in charge rather then say a Uzbek or Tajik warlord even if those guys had their own forces.

So we dug up Karzia...

"Remainder is with the warlords who will sway where the money comes from and the loyalty will remain till the cash flow remains."

Well those guys fought the Taliban for several years and totally dislike them. Plus we have far more money then the Taliban or their backers in Pakistan, the UAE and Saudi Arabia. And no way would those three nations dare to start paying off the Taliban to fight us again.

Also the warlords take our money and things are fine they take the Taliban's money and we bomb them. Not a big choice. Now there are smaller Pashtun warlords in the south we have also bought off during and since the war and we can't really trust them. But at best they could play bandit for a little bit and ask for more money to stop.

But nobody can or would dare throw out money like us in big amounts to get these guys to actively shoot at us. It took a lot of money to get the Taliban to where they were, AQ alone spent 30 million a year and Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and the UAE far more. And we are not the UF/NA either and have far more firepower and cannot be bought off to let them by to attack other forces.

Me I see more "bandit" actions and "low level" attacks but the Taliban would not be able to recover as long as we have the money and power. Now what happens when we leave is another thing...

10 Mar 05,, 02:02
Read my post on Tablighi and you will realise they are with you - your friendly neighbourhood terrorists in the making.

10 Mar 05,, 06:51
Read my post on Tablighi and you will realise they are with you - your friendly neighbourhood terrorists in the making.
Unfortunately, these 'neighbourhood terrorists' cannot be bought by money like the Afghanis.

22 Mar 05,, 13:57
Hiding In Plain Sight
Tim McGirk - Why Pakistan still isn't aggressively pursuing the ex-Taliban leaders living inside the country.
Mullah Mujahed, a veteran Taliban commander who has taken four bullets in his career as an Islamic warrior, is in a surprisingly good mood for a guy sharing a Kabul jail cell with a hungry rat. A burly figure with black locks and a black beard, Mujahed prays in a corner, oblivious to the progress of the rat as it tunnels under a gray blanket toward a bag of dates. Rising from prayer, the devout Taliban says through the bars of the cell, "When I was on jihad, the holy Prophet Muhammad talked to me in my dreams." Mujahed's Afghan and American interrogators are interested in other voices he heard during his time fighting U.S. forces, especially those voices that came from Pakistan. Mujahed was captured four months ago in the mountains of Afghanistan's Uruzgan province after an epic chase involving eight helicopters and dozens of troops. Afterward, Afghan intelligence found stored in his satellite telephone the numbers of several top Taliban military commanders, all hiding in Pakistan. His warden says Mujahed was caught with 60 remote-controlled bombs that he allegedly confessed to picking up in Pakistan after attending a Taliban war council in the southern city of Quetta.
In the Afghan theater of the war on terrorism, Pakistan — despite its close alliance with George W. Bush's Administration — is playing something of a double game. On the one hand, Islamabad has aggressively pursued al-Qaeda operatives since 9/11. It has arrested more than 600 suspects and handed most of them over to the U.S. Also, Pakistan has sent thousands of troops into the tribal areas to drive out al-Qaeda fighters hiding in the mountains along its Afghan border.

But President Pervez Musharraf's government has done little to capture the many Taliban commanders who have fled into hiding in the country, according to Afghan officials and Taliban fighters and sympathizers in the frontier Pakistani cities of Quetta and Peshawar. Those exiles include Mohammed Omar, the one-eyed mullah who formerly led the Taliban. Pakistan's reluctance, according to a senior Kabul official, stems from its "nostalgia" for when Afghanistan was firmly within its orbit of influence. Letting the Taliban remain free gives Pakistan a card to play if or when the U.S. decides to vacate Afghanistan. "If money and support were to stop from the Pakistani side, the Taliban would be finished," says Mullah "Rocketi," a former Taliban commander who earned his nickname for his accuracy in shooting Soviet tanks and who spent time at the U.S. prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Islamabad's reluctance to crack down has allowed Afghan fundamentalists to use Pakistan as a refuge from which to recruit fresh militants and launch cross-border ambushes against U.S. and Afghan troops. Some ex — Taliban fighters even allege that several colonels in Pakistan's security agency, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI), are funding former Taliban proteges through madrasahs, or religious schools, and mosques in border villages. "The ISI knows where the Taliban live," Mujahed says. "They could arrest us all in a day. But they don't bother us." His claims could be dismissed as an attempt to win favor with his Afghan jailers. Afghans often blame Pakistan for nearly every ill — a legacy of Islamabad's pre-9/11 support for the Taliban regime. But the prisoner's allegations are consistent with reports by Afghan and Western intelligence officials who contend that more than a dozen times in the past two years, they have alerted Pakistani authorities to the locations of specific Taliban hideouts, only to find that the extremists had slipped away before the raids started. (In response, Pakistani officials say the tip-offs were too sketchy.) "Right now," says a senior Afghan official, "we have solid evidence that Mullah Omar is hiding near Quetta." Two weeks ago, the elusive Taliban commander of the faithful issued his first message since July, renewing his call to fight Americans.

Other Taliban bosses are living openly in Pakistani cities, according to Afghan intelligence officials and several jailed jihadis. A captured seminary dropout, for example, claims he was recruited to carry bombs into Afghanistan by a senior Taliban living in Peshawar's s****y Hyatabad district. And an Afghan who works with the U.S. in Kandahar, Afghanistan, says the former Taliban Defense Minister, Mullah Obaidullah Akhund, openly celebrated his marriage to a teenage bride in Quetta several months ago. "We know the entire al-Qaeda and Taliban leadership is on the other side, and we can't do a damn thing about it," a U.S. commander complained to his officers on a recent tour of a firebase on the Afghan side of the border. He called in a mortar round that exploded only a few hundred yards short of a Pakistani border post — a warning that U.S. patience was being pushed to the limits.

Complete article from TIME (http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,785360,00.html) .