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  • Strategic bombing

    How effective do you think the Strategic bombing offensive was?

  • #2
    Originally posted by ANZAC View Post
    How effective do you think the Strategic bombing offensive was?
    1- It forced Germany to disperse as much of its manufacturing as possible thus inducing delays and slow downs while increasing the transportation load.

    2- It sucked high velocity 88mm guns and millions of rounds away from the front lines.

    3- it forced the Luftwaffe to retreat from the fronts. Without that retreat and crippling of the Luftwaffe's fighter strength-D day is a no go.

    4- it was a visible and audible reminder to Europe that the Nazi's had not won.

    5- it drove radar and radar counter measures technology and electronic navigation and formation night flying.

    6- indirectly the German quest for a response via the V1 and V2 would give us cruise missiles and the moon shot.

    7- B-24's and other bombers used in the maritime role were devastating on the U-boats.

    8- Once allies fighters had the range, their marauding attacks crippled the German rail grid.

    9- Postwar the threat of nuclear armed strategic bombers kept the USSR honest.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by zraver View Post
      1- It forced Germany to disperse as much of its manufacturing as possible thus inducing delays and slow downs while increasing the transportation load.

      2- It sucked high velocity 88mm guns and millions of rounds away from the front lines.

      3- it forced the Luftwaffe to retreat from the fronts. Without that retreat and crippling of the Luftwaffe's fighter strength-D day is a no go.

      4- it was a visible and audible reminder to Europe that the Nazi's had not won.

      5- it drove radar and radar counter measures technology and electronic navigation and formation night flying.

      6- indirectly the German quest for a response via the V1 and V2 would give us cruise missiles and the moon shot.

      7- B-24's and other bombers used in the maritime role were devastating on the U-boats.

      8- Once allies fighters had the range, their marauding attacks crippled the German rail grid.

      9- Postwar the threat of nuclear armed strategic bombers kept the USSR honest.

      I agree with almost all of those, except #3. Even if the Allies didn't wear down the Luftwaffe with bombing, they could more than likely still establish air superiority over Normandy. The landings would have been far more difficult, but I think they still would have happened.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Johnny W View Post
        I agree with almost all of those, except #3. Even if the Allies didn't wear down the Luftwaffe with bombing, they could more than likely still establish air superiority over Normandy. The landings would have been far more difficult, but I think they still would have happened.
        The RAF and USAAF both tried fighter sweeps, as did the Luftwaffe. Only to find they were ignored by the other side. Bombers however force the fighters to take off and get into the fight.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by zraver View Post
          The RAF and USAAF both tried fighter sweeps, as did the Luftwaffe. Only to find they were ignored by the other side. Bombers however force the fighters to take off and get into the fight.

          I don't disagree. My point was that the allies would have went ahead with Normandy even if the Luftwaffe had not been completely worn down by years of bombing. The Allies would have put hundreds of fighters over the Normandy beachhead in an attempt to establish local air superiority. It would have made the invasion more difficult and more bloody, but I think in the end they would have succeeded anyway.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by zraver View Post
            1- It forced Germany to disperse as much of its manufacturing as possible thus inducing delays and slow downs while increasing the transportation load.

            2- It sucked high velocity 88mm guns and millions of rounds away from the front lines.

            3- it forced the Luftwaffe to retreat from the fronts. Without that retreat and crippling of the Luftwaffe's fighter strength-D day is a no go.

            4- it was a visible and audible reminder to Europe that the Nazi's had not won.

            5- it drove radar and radar counter measures technology and electronic navigation and formation night flying.

            6- indirectly the German quest for a response via the V1 and V2 would give us cruise missiles and the moon shot.

            7- B-24's and other bombers used in the maritime role were devastating on the U-boats.

            8- Once allies fighters had the range, their marauding attacks crippled the German rail grid.

            9- Postwar the threat of nuclear armed strategic bombers kept the USSR honest.
            10. rather then focus on critical chokepoints it was directed over entire industrial sector, reducing it's capability (few examples of success in hitting chokepoints were raid on ball-bearing factories, however when targets were switched Gemrany was able to "bounce back")

            11. rather then focus on preventing flow of coal to factories it was directed at factories themsselves

            12. it was effective but not efficient

            Comment


            • #7
              You need to factor in that bombing raids weren't just against the major cities and industrial centres but also against bridges, trains & lines, tunnels, canals etc. and were extremely disruptive to transport.
              In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

              Leibniz

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Parihaka View Post
                You need to factor in that bombing raids weren't just against the major cities and industrial centres but also against bridges, trains & lines, tunnels, canals etc. and were extremely disruptive to transport.
                how much of that was actual strategic bombing rather then battlefield interdiction designed to isolate Normandy and limit German capability to reinforce there?

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Johnny W View Post
                  I don't disagree. My point was that the allies would have went ahead with Normandy even if the Luftwaffe had not been completely worn down by years of bombing. The Allies would have put hundreds of fighters over the Normandy beachhead in an attempt to establish local air superiority. It would have made the invasion more difficult and more bloody, but I think in the end they would have succeeded anyway.
                  Got ya.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The diversion and destruction of the Luftwaffe in the west at 1943 has profound implications on the Eastern Front. IIRC by 1943 fighter cover of Wehrmacht ground forces virtually disappeared and so, German troops were at the mercy of Red Army aviation and had no dependable aerial reconaissance. This would not have happened without Strategic Bombing.
                    All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
                    -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

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                    • #11
                      There was also the war on oil. The disruption of German oil production is arguably one of the most significant contribution of the western allies war as it took out Germany's ability to sustain mobile operations all over the board on land and in the air.
                      All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
                      -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        1944 maybe?

                        Originally posted by Triple C View Post
                        The diversion and destruction of the Luftwaffe in the west at 1943 has profound implications on the Eastern Front. IIRC by 1943 fighter cover of Wehrmacht ground forces virtually disappeared and so, German troops were at the mercy of Red Army aviation and had no dependable aerial reconaissance. This would not have happened without Strategic Bombing.
                        The Eighth United States Army Air Force despatches 376 Boeing B17 Flying Fortress strategic bombers to two targets in southern Germany - the ball bearing factories at Schweinfurt (230 aircraft) and the Messerschmitt factory at Regensburg (146 aircraft). No long-range fighter escort could be provided and as a consequence casualties amongst the attackers are heavy - sixty aircraft fail to return.
                        14 October 1943
                        Following their raid of 17 August 1943, the United States Eighth Army Air Force launch a second attack on the important ball-bearing production factories located at Schweinfurt in southern Germany. A total of 291 heavy bombers are despatched without long-range fighter escort and sixty are lost. Faced with such heavy losses, the USAAF suspends daylight heavy bomber operations against German targets.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Bugs,

                          Luftwaffe lost more fighters in the west almost every month after March 1943; of the German 536 fighters shot down during the Kursk Offensive in July, 335 were lost in the west. Luftwaffe casaulties in fighting with unescorted RAF/USAAF bombers was hardly trivial. There is also the word diversion. Strategic bombing pulled the Luftewaffe from the line in the east to protect heartland Germany regardless of actual losses inflicted.
                          Last edited by Triple C; 09 Jan 09,, 04:43.
                          All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
                          -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            617 Squadron, RAF, "The Dambusters" was a single squadron formed during the Second World War to carry out a single special and dangerous task. That operation "Chastise" has since become a legend in the annals of military history and it possess all the traditionally admired military attributes of originality, surprise and heroism coupled with a very dramatic outcome. Operation Chastise has in many ways overshadowed the later exploits of the men who formed the squadron.
                            Over the last few years some people have questioned the actions of Bomber Command and the actions taken to destroy the industrial and domestic centres of Germany during the Second World War. I myself, have taken a sideline to this question. I do not condone or sanction what Bomber Command did in its attempt to destroy the industry of Germany. I believe that the most dangerous thing on this planet is man, as soon as people start to attack each other, the animal instinct takes over. Each will try to outwit or kill one another singly or in bulk should the chance arise. To this end any aspect of war is bad.
                            People can pass comment on certain aspects of all wars but I do not believe it is right to criticise someone or something that they were not involved in or with. Modern information technology has made vast amounts of statistical and anecdotal evidence available to the historian but what sometimes gets lost in this mass of information is the immediacy and emotion caused by the raw fear of warfare. Normal reactions to events judged sitting in the arm chair by the fire side are not the same as those as when ones life and existence is tangibly at risk.
                            This website is a tribute to the personnel of and people associated 617 Squadron, "The Dambusters" primarily during the war years. It also serves as a tribute to all those of Bomber Command from whom the members of 617 Squadron were drawn, who served, fought, suffered or died during the Second World War.

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                            • #15
                              The Strategic bombing offensive seems to still get a bad rap at times for failing to break the morale, or the production rates of the Germans until near the of the war and sometimes is thought as not cost effective and a waste of materials and manpower.

                              But from the time the long range fighters destroyed the Luftwaffe fighter arm in the months leading up to Overlord, and the offensive concentrated on oil and the transportation network, Germany would have been doomed even if the ground forces weren't over running the Reich.

                              Germany was always living on a knives edge when it came to oil production, any serious reduction would have them in trouble, and Ploesti was almost 80% of Germany's crude output, and by the time the Red army over ran it, it was down by 80% because of bombing raids. Synthetic oil was also down by almost 80%.

                              In early 1944, strategic targets were attacked [rail heads, rail lines, bridges etc.] The destruction of these targets effectively paralysed Germany.


                              The destruction of oil production, oil refineries and tank farms plus the transportation network, was decisive, but as this occurred sufficiently late in the war and that Germany was due to be defeated it's often overlooked.

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