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TTL
31 Dec 08,, 11:17
I remember reading about talks of a possible Turkish-Persian Federation during the regimes of Ataturk and Riza Shah Pehlevi. I think such a move could be very benefıcial for both sides. Resulting entity will be the most powerful one in middle east and will have considerable say in regional politics. While political systems and religious beliefs of the two are different they both have close cultures and similar economic progress. Ending of current regime of Iran is of course a prerequest for such a union but I believe Iran will be secular and democratic eventually (oppresive regimes cannot go on forever).
While this union seems unralistic I believe it is not impossible, afterall in US and Canada several different cultures live side by side and if they can do it we also should be able to do it. Whats your opinion on this?

neyzen
31 Dec 08,, 12:19
Such a federation is not possible in near future. At least Turkey and Iran can not determine it by their self.

Ironduke
31 Dec 08,, 12:36
Whats your opinion on this?
A pipe dream.

1980s
31 Dec 08,, 14:21
I remember reading about talks of a possible Turkish-Persian Federation during the regimes of Ataturk and Riza Shah Pehlevi. I think such a move could be very benefıcial for both sides. Resulting entity will be the most powerful one in middle east and will have considerable say in regional politics. While political systems and religious beliefs of the two are different they both have close cultures and similar economic progress. Ending of current regime of Iran is of course a prerequest for such a union but I believe Iran will be secular and democratic eventually (oppresive regimes cannot go on forever).
While this union seems unralistic I believe it is not impossible, afterall in US and Canada several different cultures live side by side and if they can do it we also should be able to do it. Whats your opinion on this?

Its a view supported by some pan-Turks who erroneously view Iran as a Turkic-dominated stated and claim much of Persian culture and Persian historical figures to be Turk (such as Rumi). Realistically Iran and Turkey cannot federate because each country has a strong identity that is independent from each other, altho there are commonalities and overlaps between Turkey and Iran. But overall, Iranians are not going to take leadership from Istanbul and Turks wont take leadership from Tehran. Turkey and Iran dont need to join into a federation to bring the two countries closer together on international issues and perhaps their own domestic affairs too. There is a lot of potential for Turkey-Iran relations to find common ground on.

Its not necessary that Turkey and Iran merge together, but Turkey and Iran definitely have enough in common that the current relations between them fall far short of reaching their potential and where they should be at.

TTL
03 Jan 09,, 18:31
I think you are right that merger is impossible in forseeable future (and even not advisable maybe). But maybe something like a union (similar to EU) can be achieved. This will also help two nations keep their national identities while cooperating on economic political & military levels.

DRichards1968
04 Jan 09,, 01:12
I remember reading about talks of a possible Turkish-Persian Federation during the regimes of Ataturk and Riza Shah Pehlevi. I think such a move could be very benefıcial for both sides. Resulting entity will be the most powerful one in middle east and will have considerable say in regional politics. While political systems and religious beliefs of the two are different they both have close cultures and similar economic progress. Ending of current regime of Iran is of course a prerequest for such a union but I believe Iran will be secular and democratic eventually (oppresive regimes cannot go on forever).
While this union seems unralistic I believe it is not impossible, afterall in US and Canada several different cultures live side by side and if they can do it we also should be able to do it. Whats your opinion on this?

Hmmm. I always though that Persians and Turks were deadly rivals. I know that Turkish nationalists dream of a greater Turkey that includes Turkmenistan and Azerbajan, but a union with Iran would be very difficult. The differences between the two nations are not insignificant, for example, religion: you have fundamentalist, Shi'te Iran on one side, and a secular, Sunni Turkey on the other. I'm not sure how you can reconcile the two.

DRichards1968
04 Jan 09,, 01:18
Its a view supported by some pan-Turks who erroneously view Iran as a Turkic-dominated stated and claim much of Persian culture and Persian historical figures to be Turk (such as Rumi). Realistically Iran and Turkey cannot federate because each country has a strong identity that is independent from each other, altho there are commonalities and overlaps between Turkey and Iran. But overall, Iranians are not going to take leadership from Istanbul and Turks wont take leadership from Tehran. Turkey and Iran dont need to join into a federation to bring the two countries closer together on international issues and perhaps their own domestic affairs too. There is a lot of potential for Turkey-Iran relations to find common ground on.

Its not necessary that Turkey and Iran merge together, but Turkey and Iran definitely have enough in common that the current relations between them fall far short of reaching their potential and where they should be at.


Indeed. There is also one more thing - all the Iranians I've met told me that 'pure' Iranians are 'Aryans', while the Turks are of Asian origin, with some Mongol admixture. This Aryan thing is certainly a myth, as Iran has been invaded countless times and is far from being a pure race, but it has a certain romanticism attached to it, and it's an idea that appeals to the masses. I've read that back in the late 1930s Hitler had a good rapport with the Shah of Iran, and that the British and Soviets were concerned that Iran might join the Axis - that was one of the main reasons they occupied that country.

Hitman817
04 Jan 09,, 05:01
Hmmm. I always though that Persians and Turks were deadly rivals. I know that Turkish nationalists dream of a greater Turkey that includes Turkmenistan and Azerbajan, but a union with Iran would be very difficult. The differences between the two nations are not insignificant, for example, religion: you have fundamentalist, Shi'te Iran on one side, and a secular, Sunni Turkey on the other. I'm not sure how you can reconcile the two.
Its true, we are historical rivals, but I think the time for millitary expansion is over and both countries are saturated and there is common ground for economic and millitary cooperation, but a union is unlikely, not without one of them changing their way of life. I don't see that happening.

Hitman817
04 Jan 09,, 05:09
Indeed. There is also one more thing - all the Iranians I've met told me that 'pure' Iranians are 'Aryans', while the Turks are of Asian origin, with some Mongol admixture. This Aryan thing is certainly a myth, as Iran has been invaded countless times and is far from being a pure race, but it has a certain romanticism attached to it, and it's an idea that appeals to the masses. I've read that back in the late 1930s Hitler had a good rapport with the Shah of Iran, and that the British and Soviets were concerned that Iran might join the Axis - that was one of the main reasons they occupied that country.

Its true we are Turanians and they are "Arians" that's why they call themselves Iran those days.:))

I don't know why, but they are quite full of them selves about this whole "Arian"-thing.:rolleyes:

Ironduke
05 Jan 09,, 12:40
Its true, we are historical rivals, but I think the time for millitary expansion is over and both countries are saturated and there is common ground for economic and millitary cooperation, but a union is unlikely, not without one of them changing their way of life. I don't see that happening.
Do you actually think Turkey is going to turn its back on being part of the "Big Boys" club? Given its strategic proximity to a region that has become increasingly important over the last several decades, Turkey can continue to posit itself as a bridge between the West and the Middle East. I don't see Turkey as being in a situation where it is necessarily forced to join one or the other, it can in a sense enjoy the best of both worlds. It is in a unique position to exploit the advantages of having a foot in both worlds.

Ironduke
05 Jan 09,, 12:41
Its true we are Turanians and they are "Arians" that's why they call themselves Iran those days.:))

I don't know why, but they are quite full of them selves about this whole "Arian"-thing.:rolleyes:
It's best not to get too hung up on these obsessions with ancient origin, I see this often in young Turks -- there's the here and now and that's what's important.

Hitman817
05 Jan 09,, 15:46
Do you actually think Turkey is going to turn its back on being part of the "Big Boys" club?
As I stated, "not without one of them changing their way of life" and the likelyhood of Turkey changing into something like Iran is very slim but not impossible. It's more likely that Iran will change in the foreseeable future.


Given its strategic proximity to a region that has become increasingly important over the last several decades, Turkey can continue to posit itself as a bridge between the West and the Middle East. I don't see Turkey as being in a situation where it is necessarily forced to join one or the other, it can in a sense enjoy the best of both worlds.
It is in a unique position to exploit the advantages of having a foot in both worlds.

That's actually pretty much how I see it, too, since joining the EU is not an option anymore.

Hitman817
05 Jan 09,, 15:52
It's best not to get too hung up on these obsessions with ancient origin, I see this often in young Turks -- there's the here and now and that's what's important.
Do you have contact to Turks in the States?

nk07
07 Feb 09,, 16:32
A pipe dream.

Thats the answer for such a federation dream..

xerxes
07 Feb 09,, 18:42
I've read that back in the late 1930s Hitler had a good rapport with the Shah of Iran, and that the British and Soviets were concerned that Iran might join the Axis - that was one of the main reasons they occupied that country.


The Brits and Soviet concerns was mainly due to the need to open a reliable supply life line into the Union through Iran. Hence, the occupation.

and I am pretty sure, Iran "joining" the Axis would have really meant nothing on the grand scope of things.

crazy_bandit
20 May 09,, 13:45
No such thing wil ever happen. Ottoman and Safavid empires also thought of this idea back in 1500s during the time of Selim I. It can't happen because history shows us that rivalry has been the rule of the region for centuries instead of cooperation. (Rome vs Parthia, Byzantines vs Sassanids, Ottoamans vs Safavids) No such unification in sense that both countries will merge to create a single state such as Austria-Hungary is realistic. Onyl the one unity can exist and that is the Caliphate.