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  • China's way of controlling Islam

    No Tarawih for China Muslims


    IslamOnline.net & News Agencies


    Local governments issued orders to stop Uighur Muslims from performing their rituals during Ramadan on claims of preventing violence. (Google)

    BEIJING — Muslims in China's far northwest region of Xinjiang are banned from performing Tarawih prayers, special nightly prayers performed during the holy fasting month of Ramadan, with men prevented from growing beards and women from covering their faces, in the latest restrictions on China's Muslim minority.

    "We must timely warn and stop religious believers from organizing and planning large scale prayer groups and prevent any large crowd incidents that could harm social stability," said a notice on the Xinhe county website cited by Agence France-Presse (AFP) on Friday, September 5.

    Orders were issued by local governments this week to stop Uighur Muslims from performing their rituals during the fasting month on claims of preventing violence.

    The orders prohibit government officials, Communist Party members, teachers and students from observing the dawn-to-dusk fasting month.

    "Any person caught forcing another to observe Ramadan would be punished," said a notice posted on Xinjiang's Zhaosu county website.

    In some areas, Muslim men are banned from growing beards and women prevented from covering their faces with veils.

    "For those that maintain beards and for the women who wear veils, we should take all effective measures to have them shave their beards and take off their veils," the Shaya government said, without elaborating on how this would be done.

    The county government also stepped up patrols around mosques in the region.

    "The handing out of religious propaganda in public places by any work unit or individual is banned," the Shaya government said.

    "We must strictly prohibit the playing of any audio-visual tapes, loud speaker announcements and religious drum rituals that could disrupt the Ramadan festival."

    Muslims worldwide began this week observing the holy fasting month of Ramadan, the ninth month of the Islamic lunar calendar.

    During Ramadan, adult Muslims, save the sick and those traveling, abstain during daylight hours from food, drink, smoking and sex between dawn and sunset.

    Muslims dedicate their time during the holy month to become closer to Allah through prayer, self-restraint and good deeds.

    Draconian

    The draconian Chinese religious restrictions on Uighur Muslims drew flak amid warnings of fuelling tension in the Muslim-populated region.

    "We have heard of these types of measures on beards and veils, that Uighur party members and citizens who join the government are expected to distance themselves from overt cultural and religious expressions," said Phelim Kyne, a Hong Kong-based researcher for Human Rights Watch.

    "But by putting them in black and white on government websites, they are showing that they have become much more concerned with the situation and are deepening the crackdown."

    Dilxat Raxit, spokesman for the World Uighur Congress, warned that the restrictions would only increase tensions among Xinjiang's Muslim population.

    "To publicly restrict Uighurs from observing the Ramadan fast is a serious act trampling on the religious faithful," the German-based Raxit said in a statement.

    "At the same time this is only going to intensify the conflict (in Xinjiang)."

    Uighur Muslims, a Turkish-speaking minority of eight million in northwest Xinjiang region, have long chafed under Chinese control.

    Xinjiang has been autonomous since 1955, but continues to be the subject of security crackdowns.

    Beijing views the region as an invaluable asset because of its crucial strategic location near Central Asia and its large oil and gas reserves.

    http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...News/NWELayout

    Possibly they are the only nation that has extremism under control through extremism!

    Can anyone fault the Chinese for this?
    Last edited by Ray; 22 Oct 08,, 10:42.


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

  • #2
    Sir, doesn't France and Turkey (both western allies) have laws that prohibit wearing religious articles of faith?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Ray View Post
      Can anyone fault the Chinese for this?
      Sir even though I am not qualified to comment on all that's in there, I for sure wont fault the Chinese for these measures, rather I'd Welcome all of it

      Comment


      • #4
        During Ramadan, adult Muslims, save the sick and those traveling, abstain during daylight hours from food, drink, smoking and sex between dawn and sunset.

        Just curious, but is it Ok for the sick to smoke and have sex during Ramadan? :))

        A quickie look at the worlds dumbest forum shows they are not entertaining this topic much, specially in these hard times, where friends are scarce. ;)

        Anyways we've got dumbass democracy, liberalism and PC into our societies much before we read some doctrines properly. So why blame China for this?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by dilawar View Post
          During Ramadan, adult Muslims, save the sick and those traveling, abstain during daylight hours from food, drink, smoking and sex between dawn and sunset.

          Just curious, but is it Ok for the sick to smoke and have sex during Ramadan? :))

          A quickie look at the worlds dumbest forum shows they are not entertaining this topic much, specially in these hard times, where friends are scarce. ;)

          Anyways we've got dumbass democracy, liberalism and PC into our societies much before we read some doctrines properly. So why blame China for this?
          Now which forum would be the world's dumbest forum?

          And China is oppressive towards it's citizens across the boards.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Mobbme View Post
            Sir, doesn't France and Turkey (both western allies) have laws that prohibit wearing religious articles of faith?
            I don't think Turkey enforces the no-headscarves laws anymore. I've heard a few stories of secular Turkish college students calling headscarved female students in their classes "Iranians" behind their backs.
            "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

            Comment


            • #7
              Lunatock, i implied a forum where people debate 'Ghazwa E Hindustan' and Nuking India at one go or exhorting mass murder of Indian citizens or presently debating between Good Taliban and Bad Taliban or taking on India, US and Israel at the same time in all earnestness.. The debate is all in the open and at it's dumbest best.

              And China is oppressive towards it's citizens across the boards.

              Yes China is oppressive to religious freedoms. But since the topic was about Chinese controlling Islam it is important to stress China does'nt have it's hands tied down like us in PC. The Indian state for example subsidized Hajj Pilgrimages to the tune of 400 crore (~100m USD) every year including a special Hajj Terminal at Delhi Airport. Meanwhile the PC brigade gives us flak for spending 300 odd Crore Rs over 5 years on an unmanned mission to the moon.

              Meanwhile Imam Bukhari of the Jama Masjid (India's top Muslim cleric) makes treasonous statements against the Indian state time and again, attends the funeral of slain terrorists, and i'm supposed to believe that PC is helping us? China obviously is not burdened by these niceties. While normal Indians cannot buy property in Kashmir and thus maintain Muslim majority in the valley, the Chinese will have no compunction in filling Han people in Tibet or Xingjiang and changing the demographics of these place in time. And why should we blame China? It also realizes Islam has used demographics for expansionism. So they too will play their card, without the PC and stuff.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dilawar View Post
                While normal Indians cannot buy property in Kashmir and thus maintain Muslim majority in the valley, the Chinese will have no compunction in filling Han people in Tibet or Xingjiang and changing the demographics of these place in time. And why should we blame China? It also realizes Islam has used demographics for expansionism. So they too will play their card, without the PC and stuff.
                Bang on target! Islamists acts of terror is not really the primary problem as is generally assumed. Perhaps it is more of an effect than a cause.

                The real problem is demographics vis-a-vis ideology. Moslems tend to converge into their own large enclaves and at the same time luxuriate in host society's politically correct environment.

                Over a period of time, inspired by a virulent ideology, more dangerous problems than bombings shake host societies to the core. This is when their entire populations eventually are either converted under sword or wiped out.

                Objectives like seccesionism, Sharia Law, Jizia thru affirmative action, disdain for and destruction of host culture etc. are the first steps towards establishment of Dar-al-islam which becomes the raison d'etre for the elites(mullahs and moslem intelligencia) of these populations.

                If China can handle these problems, so can others(in a different manner). Squeeze them out of their encalves thru economics and/or repopulate them with host population.
                Last edited by saambaarblast; 25 Oct 08,, 03:21.

                Comment


                • #9
                  China does not allow Moslems under 18 to be taught their scriptures. This is mentioned in the media as also in the pro China book, Smoke and Mirrors, by Aiyer. That ensures that at least the indoctrination is not from birth.

                  However, Aiyer also mentions that there is a great intensity amongst the Hui to be greater adherents of Islam. She also mentions, that unlike other Islamic countries, there are women Imams, who though cannot lead the men in prayers are basically leaders amongst the women.

                  The Mosque and Imam are licenced. One just can't start praying and become an Imam. The Party is supreme. The sermons have to be cleared by the Party hacks!

                  Proselyting is NOT allowed!


                  "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                  I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                  HAKUNA MATATA

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Personally I'm a believer in freedom from state interference so I can indeed fault China for this
                    In the realm of spirit, seek clarity; in the material world, seek utility.

                    Leibniz

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      because of its crucial strategic location near Central Asia and its large oil and gas reserves.
                      hey is that just a "coincidence" or it is just me?

                      why all these rich areas are troubled zones?
                      Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        i feel very sad to seeing almost all these posts..it seems that we do not have any progress about distinguishing terrorism and Islam...

                        it is very easy to have a common enemy and to blame, isnt it?

                        so sad to see this attitude in this board...

                        Originally posted by Mobbme View Post
                        Sir, doesn't France and Turkey (both western allies) have laws that prohibit wearing religious articles of faith?
                        in Turkey headscarfs are banned only in public institutions because Turkey is a secular country and nothing to do with any religions in any public institution.

                        but people is free to wear headscarves in all other areas.

                        Originally posted by dilawar View Post
                        During Ramadan, adult Muslims, save the sick and those traveling, abstain during daylight hours from food, drink, smoking and sex between dawn and sunset.

                        Just curious, but is it Ok for the sick to smoke and have sex during Ramadan? :))

                        A quickie look at the worlds dumbest forum shows they are not entertaining this topic much, specially in these hard times, where friends are scarce. ;)

                        Anyways we've got dumbass democracy, liberalism and PC into our societies much before we read some doctrines properly. So why blame China for this?
                        no it is not OK to smoke and having sex during daylight hours even for the sick ones.

                        and it is not forbidden to have sex during Ramadan but just after the sunset.

                        Originally posted by Ray View Post
                        China does not allow Moslems under 18 to be taught their scriptures. This is mentioned in the media as also in the pro China book, Smoke and Mirrors, by Aiyer. That ensures that at least the indoctrination is not from birth.

                        However, Aiyer also mentions that there is a great intensity amongst the Hui to be greater adherents of Islam. She also mentions, that unlike other Islamic countries, there are women Imams, who though cannot lead the men in prayers are basically leaders amongst the women.

                        The Mosque and Imam are licenced. One just can't start praying and become an Imam. The Party is supreme. The sermons have to be cleared by the Party hacks!

                        Proselyting is NOT allowed!
                        Sir,

                        do you really believe that restriction will work for "public harmony" ?

                        or performing Tarawih means Proselyting???


                        Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                        I don't think Turkey enforces the no-headscarves laws anymore. I've heard a few stories of secular Turkish college students calling headscarved female students in their classes "Iranians" behind their backs.
                        "no-headscarves law" is still active.

                        but the current govt. which is already proved by the high court as being the focal point for the anti-secularist activities does not care to enforce it.

                        let me show you the photo for an exemple.

                        in Kuran is not ordering this kind of abomination nor those garment covering a woman from head to foot...

                        do you see the photo? this girl is not wearing headscarf for her belief but as a part of an anti-secularist move.

                        Islam does not deserve this at all.
                        Attached Files
                        Last edited by Big K; 24 Oct 08,, 22:44.
                        Love all, trust a few, do wrong to none; be able for thine enemy rather in power than use; and keep thy friend under thine own life's key; be checked for silence, but never taxed for speech.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Big K View Post
                          hey is that just a "coincidence" or it is just me?

                          why all these rich areas are troubled zones?
                          Because others want to get richer! :))


                          "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                          I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                          HAKUNA MATATA

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            do you really believe that restriction will work for "public harmony" ?
                            It is working as far as China is concerned.

                            I think it is only a short term gain.

                            In the long run, it can backfire.

                            China allows Buddhism to be preached unfettered. It held the World Buddhist Conference, though the Dalai Lama was not invited.

                            However, for each religion, the Party officials oversee everything and the clergy and the places of worship has to have a licence.


                            "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                            I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                            HAKUNA MATATA

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ray View Post
                              It is working as far as China is concerned.

                              I think it is only a short term gain.

                              In the long run, it can backfire.

                              China allows Buddhism to be preached unfettered. It held the World Buddhist Conference, though the Dalai Lama was not invited.

                              However, for each religion, the Party officials oversee everything and the clergy and the places of worship has to have a licence.
                              The political supervision is there only to prevent politicization of religion. Who cares about worshipping of Buddha?

                              Comment

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