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  • China-India comparisons

    i m new poster here and i posted dozens of posts to do with china.to my surprise is they drew a lot of indian posters harsh criticism and hot arguement,not even one word mentioned india in those of my posts about china.i m really confused about this situation.so i puzzled,should we really need to compare china with india?perhaps we chinese people know very little about india and i might try to find some facts and figures of this neighbor to see what make them feel this proud and arrogant lavish criticism to china.

  • #2
    Criticism and opinions, they have a saying about that, everyones got one....

    And what is Proud, arrogant and lavish criticism?

    Its very interesting, Chinese posters here take criticism to heart, and often feel insulted by it. let me criticize India, the whole nation is a mess with corruption,

    Indians have deposited more money in swiss banks (1.2 or 1.4 trillion dollars) then we have in India,

    the whole nation can be called a Muslim fundamentalist, a Hindu fundamentalist, a Sikh fundamentalist, a Christian fundamentalist etc. etc. nation at the same time,

    roads have more potholes than moon,

    our kids are suffering from malnutrition even when the government allots food for them each year (imagine that people steal from poor hungry kids),

    we have a problem with regionalism to go with the problem with different religions,

    Some people have the time to worry about why the I phone took so long to release in india, and then when it finally did just say that they got theirs from a foriegn trip to singapore (cause buying a local one is so passe).

    My friends work in the construction field and often have simple labour shortage (not even skilled labour), while right next doors beggars are lined up at the local traffic light, and unemployment grows,

    and when they get the labour they cheat them out of their money by giving wages lower than what the government has declared as bare minimum to earn profit.

    we have so many languages that when i go to south india, for the sake of my life i have to use sign language with my hands.

    People are so hung up on politics that they dont allow one of the most reputed firms in india (TATA) to open up a plant, and incidentally these areas are filled with people earning 10 rs. per day who can secure jobs in and around a new industrial area, not even mentioning that TATA is one of the few Indian firms that treats its employees well.

    phew, i will be back to complete the list later. Hope that helped.
    Last edited by kuku; 10 Sep 08,, 15:20.

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    • #3
      yes we do the same,when we chinese people get togther criticizing the government would be the most favorite chinese pastime,you can hear that everywhere.we would do it even stronger than you did.but when you get a bunch of foreigners jumped on your back and starting speak evil of you country you would instinctively become defensive and try to figure out where those guys are coming from.
      Last edited by haidian; 10 Sep 08,, 15:27.

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      • #4
        oh please don't be so hung up with nationalism, we are all humans, you criticize us, we criticize you, may be some good will come out of this...

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        • #5
          today's chinese government system is like a big mixture of many things,captialist market system,remnant of socialism,chinese traditional confucius ideology,old feudalist influence.....,how to put all those stuff together to serve this nation the best is a very challenging job.and what this government doing is trying to balance all those factors ,and they know the only way to hold their mandate is to develop the economy and deliver people the wealth.that's their top priority and they know it too well and work their ass off to work on that.once this is gone,they would be doomed,everybody knows that.now none of chinese leaders ever fought war before ,and all of them used to be intellectuals,scholars rather than generals,they dont have powerful political and military clout,can be easily removed.they are way different from past warharden chinese communist leaders.

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          • #6
            That is a good thing i suppose intellectuals and scholars leading a nation, wish i could say the same about our political leaders (most of them come in the crooks, liars, and thieves category) .

            So the leaders are wary of the Military, and the people at the same time.

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            • #7
              We can compare India and China,
              because both got independence or came out of civil war roughly at same time.
              We both are developing nation and share similar problems like poverty, population etc.
              Both started with two different ideology one followed democracy and another adopted communism.
              Both are competing against each other economically, militarily etc.

              But it looks like whenever anyone criticizes CCP and its policies, Chinese posters take it to the heart and feel that is criticizing chinese people.

              You can criticize India, our politicians are corrupt, our population suffers from malnutrition, poverty etc etc etc.
              But coming up with topics like upper caste killing lower caste is not acceptable.

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              • #8
                I must say its very hard to find a Chinese poster criticizing their nation online.

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                • #9
                  that could be true,i think it is becaue the eastern asian culture.we think very important of national pride and country's image.but not only china is like that,eastern asian countries are all like that.you would rarely see japanese and koreans criticizing their government,their sense of national pride is even strong than chinese.

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                  • #10
                    we dont criticize india,cause we've learned from childhood not to interfere with other peoples affairs.they choose they way they like,as long as they are happy,it has nothing to do with us.anyhow it is their life,you can not live for them,that's more like the chinese way of thinking.

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                    • #11
                      yes we do the same,when we chinese people get togther criticizing the government would be the most favorite chinese pastime,you can hear that everywhere
                      Maybe within China. One does not know and so we have to take your word.

                      On the internet, it is a matter which should make you proud that you are all together in praise, louder than the missionaries in the colonial days in praise of the Lord and when asked question, you obfuscate.

                      That is why China remains an enigma!


                      "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                      I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                      HAKUNA MATATA

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        5000 years of misrepresented history?: East Asia tells China to 'put its house in order'
                        « H E » News and Politics :: Sino-Japanese :: Human rights and personal freedoms :: Sino-N/SKorea :: News and Perspectives :: email
                        posted Friday, 11 March 2005

                        March has not been a good month for the image of Chinese history. both Japan and Korea lhave aunched scalding attacks on the accuracy of China’s history books and museums, calling on the Chinese government to cease state sponsored distortions of their respective histories, and to adjust its stance to match internationally accepted norms of accuracy and content for the portrayal and teaching of events in history.

                        Korea

                        The Korean Ministry of Education and Human Resources Development has announced that it is to take action against China after it repeatedly breached agreements between the two countries under which Beijing was to stop including sections of pre modern Korean history inside as its own, and to stop incorrectly portraying pre modern Korean territory and peoples as being Chinese.

                        The Korean complaint against China centers around Beijing’s long standing integration of the history of the kingdom of Koguryo, a precursor to modern Korea, into China’s own, an integrations which was described by Koreans as being a "Systematic adulteration of historical facts".

                        Flying in the face of internationally accepted historic norms, China commonly calls the kingdom an integral part of China, referring to its rulers as an ‘ethnic regional government’ that was subservient to the greater Chinese capital and to the Emperor, and its territory as being an historic component of greater China.

                        South Korean scholars have even taken the rare step of seeking cooperative exchanges with North Korea in order to gather together records to use to counter Chinese distortions of Koguryo’s history.

                        Representations by the South Korean government have been made with the support of the Koguryo Research Foundation, a group specializing in the history of Koguryo.

                        The Dispute

                        Though Korea’s dispute with China, over Koguryo, has been long running, the issue came to the political forefront in April 2004, when a website belonging to the Chinese Foreign Ministry integrated Koguryo’s history with China’s own history, and unceremoniously ‘removed’ the kingdom’s sovereignty. When the Korea government called on Beijing to amend the website, Chinese officials deleted all of the sites records regarding Koguryo, and removed all material regarding the Korean peninsular prior to its liberation from Japan instead of publicly displaying records sowing Koguryo existamce outside of greater China.

                        In August 2004, Beijing made a 5 article declaration in which it pledged to cease distortions of pre modern Korean history. China however breached this pledge in September of that year, when it published an international journal article which again integrated Koguryo’s history into China’s, and ‘removed’ the kingdom’s sovereignty.

                        The journal was made available in both English and Chinese, and was published in 180 countries.

                        Koguryo

                        Koguryo was a precursor kingdom to modern Korea and existed between the years 37 B.C. to 668 A.D, it covered a sizable portion of Northern Korea as well as stretching hundreds of miles into what is now north east China.

                        Heilongjiang, Jilin, and Liaoning provinces, all currently components of greater China, were once part of the Koguryo Empire.

                        The existence of Koguryo directly contradicts China’s claim to have 5000 years of uninterrupted history, and runs contrary to official claims over China’s historic territorial integrity by showing that large tracts of modern China were once sovereign states over which Beijing held no claim.

                        Japan

                        As Korea made its representations to China, over distortions of pre modern Korean history, Machimura Nobutaka, the Japanese Foreign Minister, called on China to correct exaggerated, misleading and in some instances, falsified, displays in the museum that records the Chinese account of Japan’s atrocity laden occupation of China during the early twentieth century, and to begin using internationally recognized standards of language and accuracy during the teaching and displaying of Sino-Japanese wartime history.


                        "I have proposed an improvement on the state of China's history education,"

                        Machimura Nobutaka, foreign Minister, Japan




                        Foreign Minister Machimura’s comments come soon after Yamatani Eriko, a lawmaker with Japan’s Liberal Democratic Party, called on China to put right factually incorrect exhibits in the Museum of the Anti-Japanese war in Beijing, which is dedicated to the war between China and Japan, and follow recommendations that future financial aid, provided to China by Japan, should be made on the condition that the Chinese government takes measures to bring its presentation of Japan, and the Japanese people, into line with the realities of twenty-first century Japan.

                        Machimura’s comments come as Nationalists in China are being accused of stoking anti Japanese sentiment in order to gain support from middle class citizens who feel cheated, because they are unable to achieve the quality of life of their Japanese and American counterparts, and to distract the wider citizenship from issues of internal reforms, rural unrest, and increasing restrictions being place on freedom of speech, in China.

                        A Koizumi Trademark

                        While unstressed, and not made formally through direct diplomatic channels, Machimura’s comments mark a divergence from Japan’s usual political stance of preferring closed door discussions and public silence. This divergence from the traditional Japanese style of politics has been a signature of the Koizumi administration in recent years, much to the fury of Chinese officials, who are increasingly finding themselves faced with cold rebuttals and facts instead of traditional Japanese silence.

                        A prime example of this change in stance was when the Koizumi administration called a rare maritime alert after a Chinese submarine violated Japan’s territorial waters in early December of 2004, forcing Beijing to publicly admit the presence of their vessel. Beijing’s subsequent apology to Japan was seen as a grave humiliation and a loss of international face by many Chinese nationalists, who still believe that China’s size and cultural duration should make it a dominant influence to its smaller, younger neighbor.

                        Infuriated by increasingly frequent Japanese rebuttals, many Chinese nationalists, who are predominantly young unmarried males from China’s ruling Han ethnic group, and who are commonly members of China’s emerging middle classes, are openly calling for war between the two countries, though such a prospect is highly unlikely given China’s dependence on international trade and good will to maintain its current rate of economic growth, and the strength of Japanese self defence force, which ranks as one of the most advanced and well trained in the world, despite a being restricted by a mandate that forbids it from engaging in any form of military action unless Japan is directly attacked.

                        War Shame

                        Feelings of shame, over its sub human wartime record, run so deep in many sections of Japanese society that, even under the Koizumi administration, it is rare for a Japanese politician to speak on any issue relating to the Japanese occupation of China, and rarer still for a Japanese minister to call on China to properly represent Japan in its history books or newspapers.

                        Japan’s culturally reaction, to bear incidents of shame silently and not to publicly discuss shameful incidents in its history, has often been misinterpreted by the west, and criminally misrepresented by China, as being an act of denial or ignorance. In reality, silence on an issue, in Japan, is often a sign that it is sensitive and painful for the country or for the individuals involved. The same is true for issues that divide feelings within the nation or a family, with contentious issues regularly remaining unspoken of, in order to preserve the appearance of unity.

                        It is only recently that ministers have been able to publicly make calls on China to adapt its stance.

                        Other Issues

                        In addition to making representations to Beijing, Korean officials also announced a plan of action to reassure Koreans over the accuracy of Japanese middle school text books, which are due to be authenticated in coming months, and to work through any differences of opinion with Japanese education officials before they become an diplomatic issue.

                        In direct contradiction to Chinese representations against Japanese text books, which have frequently taken the form of demands made through the media rather than through diplomatic and educational routes, Korean education officials are to hold a joint session with Japanese teachers and education officials to discuss any concerns over the teaching of Korean-Japanese issues. The meeting is scheduled for the period 18 March to 21 March.

                        In conjunction with the joint education session, officials have assembled a forum of 30 scholars and historians from both countries to write about the issue of Japanese-Korean history. The forums writings are to be cooperatively published in Japanese and Korean magazines and newspapers in tandem to cooperative work on text books.

                        Despite a frequent resurgences of the issue of text books, less than 0.5 percent of Japanese school children, most of middle school age, have ever been taught using the disputed text books and, in the most recent incident, between Japan and China, a historically bias book written by a ‘lunatic fringe minority’ was considered so befuddled that it was literally ‘laughed out of print’ by Japan’s powerful teachers union and never saw national distribution.

                        On top of existing cooperative measures, Korean education officials also said that they intend to set up a bilateral committee that draws on expert from both Japan and Korea that will monitor text books for rogue elements attempting to interfere with the accuracy of school teaching, so as to help prevent further issues arising, and to further peaceful relations between Japan and Korea.

                        Though taken seriously in Korea and China, disputed books are more widely considered to be laughable, and to have little influence on historic views. They are commonly only printed in short runs for private schools rather than Japanese state schools, or are factually correct and printed in greater numbers, but are lacking in specific details, veering towards the western style of education, where the observation of events through causes, consequences, and timelines are emphasized over the memorization of specific incidents. Many of this type of disputed text book would be considered wholly acceptable by western standards.

                        Most textbook complaints stem from China, which uses a heavily date, event, instance form of learning.

                        To a Chinese educator, the removal of the names and specifics of individual atrocities, in favour of broader view which explains atrocities as a whole, and the reasons behind atrocities, could easily appear to be an attempt to distort history or to justify Japan’s brutal and atrocity laden march across Asia.

                        Though still new to many parts of Asia, the cause, consequence, and timeline method of teaching is common outside of Asian, and is widely used to teach about other controversial topics including the rise of the Nazi in Germany, the Holocaust, and the US civil right movement of the mid twentieth century.
                        5000 years of misrepresented history?: East Asia tells China to 'put its house in order' [angrychineseblogger.blog-city.com]
                        This is how a blog states.

                        It is alleged to be a Chinese blogger and sure it does address the issues!


                        "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                        I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                        HAKUNA MATATA

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                        • #13
                          I wonder which country has better looking women...

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mobbme View Post
                            I wonder which country has better looking women...
                            The Chinese European mix of Singapore are very pretty and with a very gentle disposition!

                            Be they boys or girls and I am not alluding to sex!

                            I was very impressed with this class of people since they were not only very polite, but very helpful.

                            It is like the Anglo Indian community. Excellent people! Very sincere and very caring!

                            The Chinese, Indians or Europeans of Singapore were their usual self! ;)


                            "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                            I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                            HAKUNA MATATA

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by haidian View Post
                              we don't criticize India,cause we've learned from childhood not to interfere with other peoples affairs.they choose they way they like,as long as they are happy,it has nothing to do with us.anyhow it is their life,you can not live for them,that's more like the Chinese way of thinking.
                              Well i wish i could say that there is an Indian way of thinking, however there really is none.

                              India as a word = a lot of people who agree on very little.

                              Hell when back in 62 China attacked India we had people who hung welcome china Signs in Delhi :) (or its just a urban rumor but a daily dose of communist bashing is a must).

                              Even now many in India look up to China as a strong nation with a strong economy, even a superpower.

                              can you believe it we have self proclaimed Maoists in India (i am still confused as to why they chose to award themselves this title)

                              So i will not take any guarantee on behalf of my countrymen, unfortunately as long as you serf the net, you will encounter plenty of them doing what they like, may be even criticizing China.

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