US offers latest F-16s, P3C Orion variants to India.

[ASG]

What do you have to say about this now!

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/n...hp?newsid=1239


If the somehow(although unlikely, because India already has a much better fighter in SU-30MKI), the deal goes through, it would be a major diplomatic victory for India. So much for Pakistan buying the F-16s..

[tu160mblackjack]

What do you have to say about this now!

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/n...hp?newsid=1239


If the somehow(although unlikely, because India already has a much better fighter in SU-30MKI), the deal goes through, it would be a major diplomatic victory for India. So much for Pakistan buying the F-16s..

If this is true, that would be awesome. I dont know how important the C-130 and
F-16s are om the Indian AFs todo list, but I am sure they would like those P-3s. THey are supposed to be the best recon, anti-sub aircraft flying. request more info to verify the claims.

[ASG]

If this is true, that would be awesome. I dont know how important the C-130 and
F-16s are om the Indian AFs todo list, but I am sure they would like those P-3s. THey are supposed to be the best recon, anti-sub aircraft flying. request more info to verify the claims.

I dont think afer Indo-Israel deal for Phalcon, even P-3s would be much of a lure for IAF.
Aero India 2005 is on. Even Lockheed-Martin is setting up shop there. Who knows what next??

[Jay]

I dont think afer Indo-Israel deal for Phalcon, even P-3s would be much of a lure for IAF.

Phalcon is very different from P3. Dont confuse them together.

India wants P3C's so badly, that if they get the opportunity they'll buy them right away.

[jgetti]

What do you have to say about this now!

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/n...hp?newsid=1239


If the somehow(although unlikely, because India already has a much better fighter in SU-30MKI), the deal goes through, it would be a major diplomatic victory for India. So much for Pakistan buying the F-16s..

The fact that India already has a much better fighter in the SU-30MKI is irrelevant. It wouldn't be used as their primary air superiority fighter if they bought it.

[ajaybhutani]

F16s are to fill up the numbers and the primary attraction behind it will be the ToT ofor stuff like AESA avionics ECMS etc that will be of great use in LCA MCA MKI upgrades(/next batches) and maybe even in PAK-FA. Well if india gets the F16s pakistan will also get it but the difference will be in terms of numbers and also the technologies as indins wpould be buying much mroe and thus bargaining to get much better technologies . Further another problem uncle sam faces with pakistan is that one of the F16s will be going in the chineese hands. Though with indians i think they can sign up treaties for protection rights to technologies as indians have similar aggrements with ryussians and israelis and are standing up to it too.
The whole fun would be AESA . For the radar would be copies for its bigger brother MKI and used in LCA .This will add a lot of punch to out AF.

[ajaybhutani]

Orions are excellent planes and have a much different role than the phalcon. Further we will get a better version than pakistan.
BTW anyone has any idea about the SAM network deals by india are we getting Arrow/american PAC/S300/S400. Apparently the russians are not ready to integrate the SAMs with the green pine or anythin israeli.

[Jay]

F16s are to fill up the numbers and the primary attraction behind it will be the ToT ofor stuff like AESA avionics ECMS etc that will be of great use in LCA MCA MKI upgrades(/next batches) and maybe even in PAK-FA.

MKI...is Indo-Russian, PAK-FA is also Indo-Russian. You defn cannot use the American AESA in any of these fighters. Thats plain stupid! US will not offer ToT to India, its as simple as that.

Well if india gets the F16s pakistan will also get it but the difference will be in terms of numbers and also the technologies as indins wpould be buying much mroe and thus bargaining to get much better technologies .

No fcucking way, India will buy F-16's. Thats a maint nightmare for TAF/HAL combo. That wud totally prove that our decision makers are indeed plain stupid.

The whole fun would be AESA . For the radar would be copies for its bigger brother MKI and used in LCA .This will add a lot of punch to out AF.

You got to be brain dead to say that a copy of F-16 radar can be modified/enhanced to fit in a MKI.

[lulldapull]

I dont think India will be interested in the F-16! Russians will sweeten any of their MKI or Mig-29M deals surter, or France will jump in with the dash-5 way before any F-16 deals will ever get a chance to materialize.

I'm a have to concur with jay over here. India already has the numbers for its mainstay 'Bisons' that are coming off the lines, and will number no fewer than 150, according to new estimates.

I can't imagine where the hell F-16's will fit in the IAF's equation unless the LCA is scrapped!

Besides who is to say that India will get U.S. AESA tech??? Where is that being discussed. Show us proof?

Besides what is the use currently when the Bars is operational on 55 MKI airframes.....IAF currently enjoys a massive advantage over the pathetic asss PAF, or even the PLAAF...although the PLAAF has more of the older gen. SK's and less capable MKK's!

[ajaybhutani]

MKI...is Indo-Russian, PAK-FA is also Indo-Russian. You defn cannot use the American AESA in any of these fighters. Thats plain stupid! US will not offer ToT to India, its as simple as that.

Well MKI is used in india and using An aesa technology from US for radars in mki wud not be different from using it for radars in LCA.
Secondly i u happen to read a lot of discussions that have been there in this board recently in threads like LCA vs F16 etc its obvious that indians wont buy until the americans offer ToT for all uncluding AESA.

No fcucking way, India will buy F-16's. Thats a maint nightmare for TAF/HAL combo. That wud totally prove that our decision makers are indeed plain stupid.

Well if americans offer AESA ToT along with ToT for others then we wud buy and it would be then a very good deal . Or else we surely are safer buying from russia or france.

You got to be brain dead to say that a copy of F-16 radar can be modified/enhanced to fit in a MKI.

Well Seems u are an expert at it . Even then u have no right to talk like that . Better mind ur language .
Its about the technology U get the technology to make one AESA Radar u can make another using the similar concepts . And one need not be a genius to understand that. Well if we cannot copy it and change it to our needs then the americans shudnt have the problem to give us the ToT. ITs that simple.

[Dima]

actually, you need to be really smart to remake another countries products, especially something as complex as AESA, also, any copied versions or modified versions in other countries are never up to par with the original, look at Chinese aircraft compared to Russian aircraft for example

[ajaybhutani]

actually, you need to be really smart to remake another countries products, especially something as complex as AESA, also, any copied versions or modified versions in other countries are never up to par with the original, look at Chinese aircraft compared to Russian aircraft for example

well i agree with u ont this if we talk about a simple sale without ToT.The chineese are taking time as they didnt get the technology to make engines /radars. While in india';s case russians gave us all that.BTW today the chineese are making good aircrafts in fact better than the russian ones (the chineese J11's(su30 nomenclature ) are better in manufacturing quality than the russian ones they were supplied with.)



Well it will take time but its surely better and faster than developing on your own. It surely can cut the development cost adn development time for AESA for our fighters and develop[ments will also look like the samples we get . Tahts about when we just get a sample not when we get a ToT. Bec with ToT we are manufacturing it at a local site with all the parts. So we know evthin and its functions and thus easier to copy . the difference is just like being given a crash course in it. Thats why many nations always insist on ToT and the ones selling prefer not to give one for it means an easy copy or as they call it Transfer of Technology.

To sum up we have 3 possibilities
1. a AESA specifications and then make it. Thats like developing from scratch without any knowledge.
2. A AESA sample and we need to copy something what the chineese have been doing with stuff all over.
3. A AESA ToT that will be like the ToT for MKI and thus will be the cheapest in cost as well as time for development.

[Jay]

you dont need to be an expert to say that a F-16 AESA radar cannot be modified to MKI standards. The whole hardware is different, starting from the bus to the mission computer. So I gotta say that you shud be brain dead to integrate American AESA to a Russian aircraft.



And get off the wet dream thatU SA will provide ToT to India for AESA and F-16.

[ajaybhutani]

you dont need to be an expert to say that a F-16 AESA radar cannot be modified to MKI standards. The whole hardware is different, starting from the bus to the mission computer. So I gotta say that you shud be brain dead to integrate American AESA to a Russian aircraft.



And get off the wet dream thatU SA will provide ToT to India for AESA and F-16.

WEll my frnd.
Firsly theres always a possibilty of getting AESA. We will be a fool not to ask for it. After all we also need a reason to reject their offer. LOL..
Well if they are ready to give it its well and good for us. otherwise they can go to hell. After all they need to compete with countires who are ready to offer ToTs.

And about AESA radar being put on MKI.
Well we surely need to build a bigger brother of the F16's aesa . But as far as the mission computer and and bus are concerned. i can surely say u dont even know ABC of embedded systems. Well lets start from
A. The mission computer communicates with the components using a bus (which can also be exclaimed as a communication protocol between the two devices like a PCI bus we use in normal computers etc .
B. Porting a device from one bus to another is just like adding a chip in front of it that changes the information from one format to another . Believe in me its that
easy.
C. Its just like if we have the sw knowledge for the missile and the mission control of the aircraft we can post the missile on it . Like we ported the R77 on Mirage2000. Nothing more.

Now if we get a ToT then we will surely be supplied with a manual stating the communication protocol of the radar with the bus. it will be as easy as making converters from F16's mission bus's comm protocol to LCA's or MKI's communication protocol.
If wer jsut get a F16 fitted with AESa. then its tougher for then we will need to put in recorders in between to look at the communication of F16's mission bus with Radar and analyse the info to guess the comm protocol and then design the converter. Adn we are thru.

[Jay]

WEll my frnd. Firsly theres always a possibilty of getting AESA.

Let me know, when we get it. Till then its in your wet dreams.

Well we surely need to build a bigger brother of the F16's aesa .

phew...a no brainer.

i can surely say u dont even know ABC of embedded systems.

well, my friend who works in Samsung says that your assumption abot me is wrong. What are you...embedded systems guru?? Ever heard about "smart structures" ???

A. The mission computer communicates with the components using a bus (which can also be exclaimed as a communication protocol between the two devices like a PCI bus we use in normal computers etc .

That just shows that you dont know a squat about mil-bus. Read about US mil specs and Russian mil specs and whether they are compatible to each other or not.....in particular for processor intensive avionics.

B. Porting a device from one bus to another is just like adding a chip in front of it that changes the information from one format to another .

And who gives that chip to you? Monkey on the tree top??

C. Its just like if we have the sw knowledge for the missile and the mission control of the aircraft we can post the missile on it . Like we ported the R77 on Mirage2000. Nothing more.

well, to start with mating an American radar in a Russian plane aint that easy like porting a missile.

Now if we get a ToT then we will surely be supplied with a manual stating the communication protocol of the radar with the bus. it will be as easy as making converters from F16's mission bus's comm protocol to LCA's or MKI's communication protocol.

Now thats a little sensible. Converters alone will not do the job, coz your airplane will have a mix of Russian and American components. Do you know how hard it was for Russians to integrate western avionics with MKI??

If wer jsut get a F16 fitted with AESa. then its tougher for then we will need to put in recorders in between to look at the communication of F16's mission bus with Radar and analyse the info to guess the comm protocol and then design the converter. Adn we are thru.

One word...you are crazy. Read about encryption and mil bus for a start.