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The Folly of Immigration...

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  • The Folly of Immigration...

    Immigration is historically rare. The fact that there were virtually no border controls until the 20th century illustrates this, there was no need to control borders because so few people ever wanted to cross them. Virtually no society anywhere in the world throughout history has ever wanted to attract immigration.

    The historical rarity of immigration allowed humanity to evolve different languages, cultures, customs and family names unique to each society. Human immobility is such that intensely localised regional accents emerge, with, for example, villages in Ireland just a few miles apart having distinguishable speech patterns. None of this would have happened in a world of mass immigration.

    The multicultural ethnicly diverse society our politicians tell us we live in today is an utter myth peddeled by politically correct left wing troglogytes who put immigrants before the indigenous population. Different races do not and never have mixed easilly, mass migration/immigration has always produced ghettos and in saying this I'm not being racist (although I'm sure some will disagree) there are ex pat communities in many countries which are virtual enclaves because they do not wish to "mix" with the locals, yet the (British) government tell us we should rejoice and embrace mass immigration. It may be good for big business and shareholders but in the long term it can only be a bad thing for the country and those who have paid "in" for the past fifty or sixty years who are increasingly told to get to the back of the queue, behind immigrants.

  • #2
    Say what?

    The mass migrations of the Huns, Turks, and Mongols mean anything?

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
      Say what?

      The mass migrations of the Huns, Turks, and Mongols mean anything?
      Yes, war.

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      • #4
        The Byzantiums got through ok until the Ottomans.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
          Say what?

          The mass migrations of the Huns, Turks, and Mongols mean anything?
          What about the mass migrations of Angles, Saxons and Jutes to England where this "old chappy" is from. LOL

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
            The Byzantiums got through ok until the Ottomans.
            How far back shall we go? suffice to say that border control is a product of the 20th century, do you disagree?

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            • #7
              Er isn't it is said that US is a country of immigrants?
              Last edited by devgupt; 10 Aug 08,, 20:45.
              Keyboard is mightier than gun

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              • #8
                The multicultural ethnicly diverse society our politicians tell us we live in today is an utter myth peddeled by politically correct left wing troglogytes who put immigrants before the indigenous population
                The monocutlural societies free of ethnic diversity that anti-immigration groups tell us we are wrecking with immigration are an utter myth peddalled by willfully ignorant (largely right wing) trogoldytes who just don't want to have to deal with anyone a bit different from them.

                The notion of the nation with a single identity, single language & single culture is the product of C19th nationalism & was created using the expanding power of the centralized nation state.

                As for immigration, it has gone on since humanity was able to move. All that has changed now is that people can move farther faster & for less money.

                Another change is that, unlike the English, French, Spanish (to take some obvious examples) and others, modern migrants no longer wipe out whole societies in their quest for land. Indeed, within a few generations the vast majority of migrants are absorbed the culture to which they have migrated, retaining only a few elements of their original culture.

                If, however, one is obsessed by some mythical idea of national cultural purity, even this is probably too much. Imagine the nation that gave us jellied eel & black pudding preferring a vindaloo. I believe I hear the 4 horsemen approaching.
                sigpic

                Win nervously lose tragically - Reds C C

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Bigfella View Post
                  The monocutlural societies free of ethnic diversity that anti-immigration groups tell us we are wrecking with immigration are an utter myth peddalled by willfully ignorant (largely right wing) trogoldytes who just don't want to have to deal with anyone a bit different from them.

                  The notion of the nation with a single identity, single language & single culture is the product of C19th nationalism & was created using the expanding power of the centralized nation state.

                  As for immigration, it has gone on since humanity was able to move. All that has changed now is that people can move farther faster & for less money.

                  Another change is that, unlike the English, French, Spanish (to take some obvious examples) and others, modern migrants no longer wipe out whole societies in their quest for land. Indeed, within a few generations the vast majority of migrants are absorbed the culture to which they have migrated, retaining only a few elements of their original culture.

                  If, however, one is obsessed by some mythical idea of national cultural purity, even this is probably too much. Imagine the nation that gave us jellied eel & black pudding preferring a vindaloo. I believe I hear the 4 horsemen approaching.
                  LOL, good post Bigfella. You are of course wrong, it was none the less an entertaining post...

                  "The notion of the nation with a single identity, single language & single culture is the product of C19th nationalism & was created using the expanding power of the centralized nation state".

                  There is no such notion.

                  "As for immigration, it has gone on since humanity was able to move. All that has changed now is that people can move farther faster & for less money".

                  You are wrong, never before in history has any government invited so many immigrants to invade it's shores at the expense of the indiginous population.

                  Do you really think immigrants have absorbed into the culture to which they have moved? I've lived in a few countries and in every single one of those countries I've seen immigrant ghettos/enclaves call them what you will, where immigrants refuse to integrate, they will only live with their own kind and politically correct governments are increasingly bending over at the expense of the indiginous population who are getting ever more hacked off with the situation.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Rickshaw View Post
                    You are wrong, never before in history has any government invited so many immigrants to invade it's shores at the expense of the indiginous population.
                    The Jews in Eygpt. The Spaniards in the Roman Empire. The Germanic tribes in the Roman Empire. The Jinns in the Mongol Empire. The Huns in the Byzantium Empire ... you want me to go on?

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                    • #11
                      the early Prussia was almost completly based on immigration. There was a time when every third mal under 30 in Berlin was French.

                      In the 18th century Russia called for immigrants from all over europe. Here is the manifest from Catherine the great:

                      Manifesto of Catherine the Great

                      just a short quote:

                      We permit all foreigners to come into Our Empire, in order to settle in all the gouvernements, just as each one may desire.
                      (she even went so far and offered help & money for all those willing to come but could not afford it on their own!)

                      At the dawn of the 20th century about 2 million Germans alone lived in the Russian Empire, that number does not even include those who came from different countries!

                      though one has to admit that the numbers of immigrants is higher today then in the past...which is only logic as there has never such a high population and such a high global growth rate like in last 150 years!

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                      • #12
                        And I do remember the great land grabs of North America where we were giving away land to whomever wants to come to our shores.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Rickshaw View Post
                          You are wrong, never before in history has any government invited so many immigrants to invade it's shores at the expense of the indiginous population.

                          Do you really think immigrants have absorbed into the culture to which they have moved?

                          Mass migration of Zoroastrians from Persia into India, not once, but several times at different points in history, proves that statement wrong. Infact, just look at India's demographics, we have more Zoroastrians in India then Iran; and then there are the Bahai's, the Jews, and other such minority communities which have migrated into India. And they have all brought their own culture, tradition and languages to India which have just become a part of Indian identity. So I don't think it is right to say that have they "absorbed into the culture", but rather ask, has the culture absorbed them. The Lotus temple in Delhi is one such example, it is regarded as one of India's landmarks, yet its origins lie in a Persian religion; yet that religion and its symbols have been incorporated into Indian culture.
                          Cow is the only animal that not only inhales oxygen, but also exhales it.
                          -Rekha Arya, Former Minister of Animal Husbandry

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                          • #14
                            Ah and your example of "distinguishable speech patterns". You have those (in a smaller amount) also all over the USA which in lingustic terms is pretty young. And further, while you can find differences in languages just miles apart, you can also find similtaries from Iceland to the edge of India! Ever heart of the Indo-european language family? You can trace almost all of thise languages back to a "commen ancestor". How should that be possible if not due massive movement of populations and peoples since the dawn of time?

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                            • #15
                              Why my people used to live in Mongolia before traveling through Tibet to settle in a nice little place in India with lots of grass and greenery, and kept on traveling deep into Tibet every season for trade through the niti mana pass right up to 1960s.

                              resulting in a very unique dialect which was different from many other tribes in the same area and a mixture of all three (old tribal one, local one and Tibetan).

                              immigration is as natural to humans as taking that shyt early in the morning, and it played an important part in our evolution to what we are.

                              And if you are the kind that dont believe in evolution either.
                              Last edited by kuku; 11 Aug 08,, 02:38.

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