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View Full Version : UCAV The future in Air Warfare??



MIKEMUN
31 Jan 05,, 01:06
Ok guys,I need to do some research on this so bear with me..Since AA missiles have become sophisticated a lot of countires have started developing the idea of using UCAV,Unmanned Combat Air Vehicles...What are their advantages and,if any,disadvantages..And how would they fare in a theater of war??

Thanks...

dave angel
31 Jan 05,, 07:16
there are cheap(er) and no one cares if they get shot down, the range/endurance on them is pretty impressive and dodgy countries seem to get less upset when 'drone' flies through their airspace 'accidently' than when an F-15 does.

Terran empire
31 Jan 05,, 09:53
there are cheap(er) and no one cares if they get shot down, the range/endurance on them is pretty impressive and dodgy countries seem to get less upset when 'drone' flies through their airspace 'accidently' than when an F-15 does.
UCAVs as they are to day are ok for Extremely light pre-planned bombing missions they can be told to fly from point A to point D and drop bombs on B and C. but to date I am not too sure about the on the fly mission alteration capabilities or if it can even be used for Air to Air Patrol duties.

intelgurl
31 Jan 05,, 22:28
UCAVs as they are to day are ok for Extremely light pre-planned bombing missions they can be told to fly from point A to point D and drop bombs on B and C. but to date I am not too sure about the on the fly mission alteration capabilities or if it can even be used for Air to Air Patrol duties.

"To date" there are no UCAV's deployed for either bombing duties or air-to-air duty. The only exception to that is the Hellfire armed Predator which barely qualifies for a "bombing mission".

There is however a whole slew of UCAV's in development that address the bombing mission but the only UCAV's addressing the A2A mission are in the research phase only. Most notable of the UCAV bombers are the X-45, X-46 & X-47 projects.

Near term future UCAV bombers possess quite a bit of autonomy (lessons learned from the Global Hawk, a largely autonomous vehicle) but they also have a mission altering remote command structure in place.

MIKEMUN
01 Feb 05,, 00:00
I found this site...

http://www.maclean-nj.com/opinions/stories/4.htm

Dima
01 Feb 05,, 04:56
yea, Intelgurl is registered on this forum, awesome

yo guys, don't mess with her, she'll take you all on and then some, like the smartest person i ever met

MIKEMUN
01 Feb 05,, 16:45
This is what I have found so far

Unmanned Combat Air Vehicle

Current UCAV concepts call for an aircraftwhich would be able to operate autonomously. It will be programmed with route and target details and conduct mission without help from human controllers on the ground. For various reasons however,current designs incorporate a "man in the loop,"meaning that a ground controlle must authorize weapons release.

Current UCAV concepts include:

J-UCAS A jointDARPA/USAF/USN which includes the Boeing X-45 and the Northrop-Grumann X-47

Hunter killer Project,5 designs

Dassault Neuron,France

SHARC,Saab Filur,Sweden

Eitan,Israel..

The USAF is expected to start fielding UCAV by 2010, Israel is planning a long range UCAV,France wants to field its own by 2009..

Link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCAV

Se7eN
04 Feb 05,, 22:44
Most pilots would tell you that there will always be a need for a human being making reactionary decisions in the cockpit. But you can look at that several different ways.

The F-117 is not a jock's aircraft, for instance. It is mostly kept airborne via computer controlled systems.

Additionally, you can almost consider the person flying the UCAV back at it's command station a human being making reactionary decisions -- but how would he fare in a dogfight against a MiG 29? We know the outcome of that.

Whether or not artificial intelligence evolves to a point where that RC pilot isn't doing as much work, has yet to be seen. I do know that typical PC technology, such as what we're all posting from now, can't handle the calculations required to perform complex AI actions. That will change, someday.

For now, they will serve specific roles. Maybe they can't do them as well as an aircraft piloted by a real pilot in the cockpit, but they sure do make it safer and cheaper.

Remember the A-10. I saw the decommision ceremony on Eglin AFB. They killed that plane. It came back. There's always a use for something, because times change. Conditions change. It's not always the same, and it never will be. Adaptation makes our forces competitive and on top. We saw plenty of role-playing in WW2. Abrams tanks being outfitted with metal scraps from the beaches of Normandy allowed them to penetrate the hedges.

Innovation is key, but one thing will never replace another permanently.

MIKEMUN
05 Feb 05,, 13:01
So are we to expect to see the pilot in the loop for a long long time??What about the advances in missile technology??Manned aircraft are limited by human performance,but unmanned aircraft aren't..Isn't the time when air to air missiles will become the scourge of all pilots just over the horizon??What new countermeasures could be installed to make sure that the planes,manned that is,and the pilots have a better survivability rate??Isn't there where UCAVs come in??They can be made to outperform some missiles..........maybe...

bull
05 Feb 05,, 13:48
So are we to expect to see the pilot in the loop for a long long time??What about the advances in missile technology??Manned aircraft are limited by human performance,but unmanned aircraft aren't..Isn't the time when air to air missiles will become the scourge of all pilots just over the horizon??What new countermeasures could be installed to make sure that the planes,manned that is,and the pilots have a better survivability rate??Isn't there where UCAVs come in??They can be made to outperform some missiles..........maybe...

I hate machines fughting war..not that i have no value for life

Se7eN
17 Feb 05,, 22:01
So are we to expect to see the pilot in the loop for a long long time??What about the advances in missile technology??Manned aircraft are limited by human performance,but unmanned aircraft aren't..Isn't the time when air to air missiles will become the scourge of all pilots just over the horizon??What new countermeasures could be installed to make sure that the planes,manned that is,and the pilots have a better survivability rate??Isn't there where UCAVs come in??They can be made to outperform some missiles..........maybe...

F-22's are designed to be able to splash several targets before they are even in visual range, much less the enemy knowing what hit them.

If the enemy ever gets to a point where they are in a similar position, might change things. But we always seem to be several steps ahead of everyone else.

Dima
18 Feb 05,, 01:27
the only downfall of the F-22 program is just the sheer cost for the program, $370 million per aircraft now, that's insane, sorry, but i'd go with the purchase of 12 Su-27's(plus a little more, because 12 Flankers only equates to $360 million), you'd run out of missiles before you could shoot all of those Flankers down lol

MIKEMUN
18 Feb 05,, 08:26
Boeing X-45As Reach 50th Flight with First Simulated Combat Mission

Boeing Co
Feb 15, 2005, 10:10

ST. LOUIS: Imagine having a stealthy military aircraft capable of flying over enemy territory, ready to strike and destroy surprise threats immediately without any risk to American pilots.

Two Boeing Joint Unmanned Combat Air Systems’ (J-UCAS) X-45A unmanned aircraft demonstrated that capability Feb. 4 when they flew a simulated combat mission during their 50th flight at NASA’s Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards Air Force Base, Calif.

“With nearly three years of X-45A test experience completed, our next challenge was to show that our unmanned systems can handle the pop-up threats that are common in warfare,” said Darryl Davis, Boeing J-UCAS X-45 vice president and program manager. “We’ve begun demonstrating that with this mission.”

“While we continue flights at Edwards, we’re also busy building the next generation of the X-45 family: the X-45C. Affordable and highly survivable, the X-45C will allow the warfighter to destroy enemy targets quickly.”

The two X-45As began the latest test, known as Peacekeeper, by departing from Edwards and climbing to altitudes of 24,500 and 25,500 ft respectively. Separated by approximately 25 miles and operating at Mach .65 (225 knots), the jets began their combat air patrol (CAP) mission to provide airborne alert over the exercise area. Tasked with suppression of enemy air defenses, the two vehicles were given two simulated pop-up ground threats to eliminate.

Once alerted to the first threat, the X-45As autonomously determined which vehicle held the optimum position, weapons and fuel load to properly attack the target. After making that decision, one of the X-45As changed course and the pilot-operator allowed it to attack the simulated ground-based radar. Following a successful strike, another simulated threat emerged and was subsequently destroyed by the second X-45A. The two X-45As completed their mission and safely returned to Edwards.

The X-45A demonstration was preceded by a lengthy software integration and test process. Peacekeeper software underwent more than 2800 hours of testing in a high fidelity System Integration Laboratory. Flights of a T-33 X-45A surrogate prior to use on the X-45 vehicle further confirmed the software.

The J-UCAS X-45 program is a Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency/U.S. Air Force/U.S. Navy/Boeing effort to demonstrate the technical feasibility, military utility and operational value of an unmanned air combat system for the Air Force and the Navy. Operational missions for the services may include persistent strike; penetrating electronic attack; suppression of enemy air defenses; and intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance.

A unit of The Boeing Company, Boeing Integrated Defense Systems is one of the world's largest space and defense businesses. Headquartered in St. Louis, Boeing Integrated Defense Systems is a $30.5 billion business. It provides network-centric system solutions to its global military, government, and commercial customers. It is a leading provider of intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance systems; the world’s largest military aircraft manufacturer; the world’s largest satellite manufacturer and a leading provider of space-based communications; the primary systems integrator for U.S. missile defense and Department of Homeland Security; NASA's largest contractor; and a global leader in launch services.




Some people are saying that the F-22 and F-35 might be the the last manned fighters that the US is fielding..While I doubt that,one can't deny that Uav's and UCAV's are gonna become an indispensable part of all armies of the world..