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View Full Version : Operation Jubilee - The Raid on Dieppe



TopHatter
16 Sep 03,, 02:10
The Colonel and I were discussing the Dieppe raid on the Politics board and I thought I'd provide some background on it here on the History Board. This is also a reply to any doubters of Canada's contribtions during WW II. I'm going to shamelessly borrow from other sources for this post on the Dieppe raid. Each quotation will include a link to the original site afterwards

[In 1942] Allied forces launched their first offensive actions. One of these involved mounting a major raid on the French port of Dieppe in order to not only foster German fears of an attack on the Western front thereby forcing them to divert resources from other areas of operations, but also to provide allied forces with an opportunity to test new techniques and equipment while gaining experience on amphibious assault operations. Initially planned for July 1942, the raid did not take place until August 19, 1942. Involving more than 6,000 troops, most of which were Canadians, eight Allied destroyers and 74 air squadrons, the raid called for attacks at five different locations along a 16-kilometres front. The first four attacks would take place just before dawn and would be followed by the main attack on Dieppe. The raid ended during the early afternoon of that day. It resulted in more than 3,000 casualties, including almost 2,000 prisoners of war. Only 2,210 Canadians returned to England, out of the 4,963 who initially took part in the operation. While not a success, the operation did nevertheless set the stage for the eventual success of Operation Overlord, by forcing improvements to be made in tactics, techniques and fire support. http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/world_war_2.htm

Conflicting assessments of the value of the raid continue to be presented. Some claim that it was a useless slaughter; others maintain that it was necessary to the successful invasion of the continent two years later on D-Day. The Dieppe Raid was closely studied by those responsible for planning future operations against the enemy-held coast of France. Out of it came improvements in technique, fire support and tactics which reduced D-Day casualties to an unexpected minimum. The men who perished at Dieppe were instrumental in saving countless lives on the 6th of June, 1944. http://users.pandora.be/dave.depickere/Text/dieppe.html

To sum up, I think it can be successfully argued that the success at Normandy was paid for in Canadian blood at Dieppe.

Officer of Engineers
16 Sep 03,, 04:49
There was no doubt that Dieppe had a very big effect on Juno, Sword, and Gold but I don't know about Utah and Omaha.

The fact is that the Americans had landing experiences of their own.

Not that I want to downplay Canadian prestige but it's a question that I've been bothered with for some time now.

Chapter 2: Evolution of Modern Amphibious Warfare, 1920-1941 (http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/I/USMC-I-I-2.html)

Ref: HyperWar: History of USMC Operations in WWII: Vol I (http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/I/)

bigross86
16 Sep 03,, 06:50
The Americans had prior experoence from a couple succesful and not so sucesful landings in Italy

Officer of Engineers
16 Sep 03,, 07:19
They also had landings in Algiers but Dieppe preceeded all those.

Bill
16 Sep 03,, 07:56
The Americans were landing all over the Pacific by the time of D Day, so we had LOTS of amphibious experience by then.

Even still, the Dieppe raids no doubt helped the Allies learn and re-learn a lot of valuable lessons.

I saw a show on the history channel about that once, it seems to have been a mightily fucked up operation.

TopHatter
16 Sep 03,, 14:14
I could be all wrong about this, but obviously all of the American amphibious lessons learned in the PTO were by the Marines. Would the Army ask for those lessons or was there too much interservice rivalry for that? Hell, for all I know, they greedily devoured the Marine's experiences and put it to good use.

Officer of Engineers
17 Sep 03,, 03:22
The commonality of landing craft designs (initialled dictated by the Marines) would suggest some cross over if only forced by equipment limitations.

Bill
17 Sep 03,, 09:41
"I could be all wrong about this, but obviously all of the American amphibious lessons learned in the PTO were by the Marines. Would the Army ask for those lessons or was there too much interservice rivalry for that? Hell, for all I know, they greedily devoured the Marine's experiences and put it to good use."

Actually, the US Army made many amphibious assaults in the PTO during WWII.

smilingassassin
13 Dec 03,, 03:01
My grandfather served at Deippe and was fortunate enough to make it back home, sadly I never got the story first hand from him as he died some years back. From what I understand he was fortunate enough to be on one of the landing craft that never made it to the beach and turned back once they realized the battle was a major snafu. IIRC he later served in the D-day operations as well as he already had some amphibious landing training under his belt.

EPA
03 Mar 05,, 00:03
That was the first time the AMerican Rangers saw action. The Dieepe raid had nothing to do with preperations for D-day. These are why they raided it.

1. To get Hitler to draw some troops off the Eastern front.

2. So they can test them and see how fast the could rise to the challenge.

3. To give Canadians and Americans some Landing experince.

But Monty was in charge of the D-day landings.

Bill
03 Mar 05,, 00:17
"That was the first time the AMerican Rangers saw action. The Dieepe raid had nothing to do with preperations for D-day. These are why they raided it.

1. To get Hitler to draw some troops off the Eastern front.

2. So they can test them and see how fast the could rise to the challenge.

3. To give Canadians and Americans some Landing experince.

But Monty was in charge of the D-day landings."

You contradict yourself mightily in the above text.

Officer of Engineers
03 Mar 05,, 01:27
That was the first time the AMerican Rangers saw action. The Dieepe raid had nothing to do with preperations for D-day. These are why they raided it.

1. To get Hitler to draw some troops off the Eastern front.

2. So they can test them and see how fast the could rise to the challenge.

3. To give Canadians and Americans some Landing experince.

But Monty was in charge of the D-day landings.
With google, there should be no excuse for your ignorance on everyone of your points

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=Dieppe+Raid&btnG=Search&meta=

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=D-Day&btnG=Search&meta=

lemontree
03 Mar 05,, 09:41
Dieppe Raid photo gallery.
http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/content/feature/dieppe02/photogall/

EPA
03 Mar 05,, 17:02
What are you showing me.

maverick
20 Apr 05,, 03:17
a deviation from the topic...
It is sad to see Canada, such a major power during the second WW relegate itself to the position of a secondary power. With jus 30-40 thousand active troops, a second hand navy and a one-type airplane airforce successive Canadian governments have squandered the strategic oppurtunities they gained in the World War. This view is echoed by not only me but almost all the surviving veterans. :mad:

Officer of Engineers
20 Apr 05,, 04:51
a deviation from the topic...
It is sad to see Canada, such a major power during the second WW relegate itself to the position of a secondary power. With jus 30-40 thousand active troops, a second hand navy and a one-type airplane airforce successive Canadian governments have squandered the strategic oppurtunities they gained in the World War. This view is echoed by not only me but almost all the surviving veterans. :mad:
Given our population, we could not have sustained the kind of build up and sacrafice we've made during WWII, especially during peacetime.

As for our current situation, there's no one to blame but ourselves. We've voted the bastards in.

ChrisF202
20 Apr 05,, 11:11
Hopefully things will change with the Canadian armed forces, it was once womthing to be proud of. Vote the liberals out.

Unrelated but how many Canadians were KIA at Deippe?

philipjd
20 Apr 05,, 19:08
That was the first time the AMerican Rangers saw action. The Dieepe raid had nothing to do with preperations for D-day. These are why they raided it.

1. To get Hitler to draw some troops off the Eastern front.

2. So they can test them and see how fast the could rise to the challenge.

3. To give Canadians and Americans some Landing experince.

But Monty was in charge of the D-day landings.

IIRC - Monty prepared the army plans for Dieppe.

regards
Phil

smilingassassin
21 Apr 05,, 09:13
I have to disagree on the "second hand navy" comment. Our navy is very good considering the funding it gets. Theres nothing wrong with the Halifax class frigates or the Kingston class MCDV's and the Iroquois are still providing great service. Finnally we are replacing the rickety Sea Kings which to our guys credit should be crashing at a far higher rate than they are given their age.

The sad thing is our govt. doesn't seem to be budgeting for replacements for the Iroquois class ships which, to me, nulify's their TRUMP refit. Why spend the money to refit older ships for AA capability's and not have replacements planned?