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FOE
01 May 08,, 13:05
Dalai clique unqualified for talking about human rights
(Xinhua)
Updated: 2008-05-01 14:52


BEIJING -- The People's Daily, the mouthpiece of the Communist Party of China (CPC), has published a signed article that said the Dalai Lama has no right to talk about human rights issues.

The article, entitled "The 'Tibet Issue' has nothing to do with human rights," was written by the paper's columnist He Zhenhua, who has recently published numerous articles criticizing the Dalai Lama and supporting patriotism among Chinese readers.

According to He, the old Tibet, under the rule of the Dalai clique, practiced the notorious political system of slavery, by dividing Tibetans into different classes. There was a small group of slave owners, who accounted for merely 5 percent of the total Tibetan population at that time, reigning over the rest of the Tibetans.

In old Tibet, slave owners subjected slaves to economic exploitation, political oppression and spiritual control, according to the article. It quoted a French scholar on the study of Tibet as saying that there was absolutely no human freedom for Tibetan slaves in the past, and "the 1 million Tibetan slaves have enjoyed authentic democracy, freedom and human rights since the Peaceful Liberation of Tibet (in 1951)."

It advised the Dalai clique to take care of its own human rights problems, referring to the living conditions of exiled Tibetans in India.

Most exiled Tibetans live in the slums of Dharmsala, the "capital" of the "Tibetan government-in-exile," in India, and they have to hand over "independence donations" to the "government-in-exile," the article said, without elaborating.

The exiled Tibetans, who are suffering from linguistic and emotional barriers, enjoy no human rights at all, it claimed.

The article cited the "Universal Declaration of Human Rights" to support its view, to deny the claims of the Dalai clique and assert that Tibetans have enjoyed their rights since the Peaceful Liberation of Tibet.

According to the article, the Tibet Autonomous Region has for years maintained an average of 12 percent annual growth, while the government has provided free medical services to rural people and free education and food to their children. Tibetan residents are now experiencing fast growth in private housing, it said.

In the early years of its exile, the Dalai clique disturbed the life of border residents in Tibet by force, the article said. In recent years, it tried to infiltrate or plot and stir up violence in Tibet, which has been detrimental to the lives and developing rights of Tibetans, the article said.

The article concluded by saying that the Dalai clique has tried to stimulate ethnic sentiments and win support from the West, so as to realize the "Independence of Tibet" and split China.



Freely speech!!!:))Though they did so many no-human-rights things,let they talk!

Bigfella
01 May 08,, 13:45
FOE, I would like to thank you for this and other threads you have started.

It is just possible that conversations with one or two of the more sophisticated pro-CCP propagandists on these boards might lead some of us to lose sight of the true nature of the regime in China. The crude propaganda that you are posting is a powerful reminder of just how vile the CCP regime is.

It is also a reminder that this is the 'truth' that the CCp surrounds its citizens with from birth. It is little wonder that any attempt to challenge these 'truths' is met with hysteria. This is your reality. Your government has invested untold bilions in ensuring that by the time you are old enough to think for yourself you don't know how to.

Thank you for reminding us just how warped the CCP view of the world is.

dave lukins
01 May 08,, 13:47
Signed by whom?

written by the paper's columnist Is he a non-member of the CCP? Is this an independent paper?


It quoted a French scholar on the study of Tibet

And his name is? and where can we read this Tome of Enlightenment, please send Link with your reply;)


The exiled Tibetans, who are suffering from linguistic and emotional barriers, enjoy no human rights at all

Any evidence of this barbarity and slave trade is to be read/found where?

FOE
01 May 08,, 14:58
FOE, I would like to thank you for this and other threads you have started.
QUOTE]

:)
[QUOTE]It is just possible that conversations with one or two of the more sophisticated pro-CCP propagandists on these boards might lead some of us to lose sight of the true nature of the regime in China. The crude propaganda that you are posting is a powerful reminder of just how vile the CCP regime is.

First,I'm not a propagandist of CPC and I do not want to lead some of you to lose sight of the true nature of the regime in China,oppositely,I want to give you the right sight of the nature in China.
Second ,It is crude but not a propaganda!!Because it not need and I'm not a propagandist ;)


It is also a reminder that this is the 'truth' that the CCp surrounds its citizens with from birth. It is little wonder that any attempt to challenge these 'truths' is met with hysteria.
Your words also a reminder that this is the 'truth' that your gov surrounds its citizens with from birth.!!!
It is little wonder that any attempt to challenge YOUR 'truths' is met with hysteria.


Your government has invested untold bilions in ensuring that by the time you are old enough to think for yourself you don't know how to.

:)Of course,you can not believe this.But it's true!In China,there are many many things which you cannot believe ,but you didn't want to trust me.Is this also surrounds of your country to you?


Thank you for reminding us just how warped the CCP view of the world is.

Thank you for reminding us just how warped YOUR COUNTRY AND YOUR MEDIA view of the world is.

Maybe you are right,maybe I .:)Just wait and in the futrue we will know!

Ray
01 May 08,, 15:02
Foe,

You must also post the link.

So, the Tibetans with Dalai Lama in Dharamshala are without liberties?

That is surprsiing since a whole lot of foreign dignitaries visit that area and they have not complained nor have the ever active human rights organisations, both Indian and foreign.

Could it be that this is a Capitalist plot to defame the glorious struggle of the Peasants and Workers?

FOE
01 May 08,, 15:09
Dalai clique unqualified for talking about human rights (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-05/01/content_6656400.htm)

FOE
01 May 08,, 15:46
Signed by whom?
Is he a non-member of the CCP? Is this an independent paper?



And his name is? and where can we read this Tome of Enlightenment, please send Link with your reply;)



Any evidence of this barbarity and slave trade is to be read/found where?

If you have any questions, comments, suggestions or news tips to tell Chinadaily.com.cn,

Write to:

China Daily Website
Add: 6/F B3, Thunis Development Mansion, No.11 Huixin Dongjie, Chaoyang District, Beijing 100029, PRC
Tel: +86(10) 84883300
Fax: +86(10) 84883600
Newspaper Tel: +86(10) 64995000


Good Luck!Dave!

FullTank
01 May 08,, 16:30
Definitely more qualified than the CCP.

astralis
01 May 08,, 18:45
fulltank,

sorry, i'm no CCP apologist but i doubt that. even disregarding this article, let me know when the dalai's boys raise several hundred million people out of abject poverty.

Ironduke
01 May 08,, 19:03
If you have any questions, comments, suggestions or news tips to tell Chinadaily.com.cn
That newspaper is wholly owned by the Communist Part of China.

FOE
01 May 08,, 19:13
I know you do not trust CPC just like I do not trust CNN.
Do you know CNN is wholly owned by capitalists?

Ray
01 May 08,, 19:20
fulltank,

sorry, i'm no CCP apologist but i doubt that. even disregarding this article, let me know when the dalai's boys raise several hundred million people out of abject poverty.

Good point.The CCP marched into Tibet in 1950. When did they raise the several hundred million people out of abject poverty?

Why did the Communists first address the Hans plight and then, after considerable time, address the minorities.

In 1950, it was still colonial times and breaking. How much of Asia was out of abject poverty?

Must look at the times then and not apply today's context to judge history!!

Apples and Oranges!!

Officer of Engineers
01 May 08,, 19:24
Why did the Communists first address the Hans plight and then, after considerable time, address the minorities.A matter of practicality, Sir. When Deng 1st opened up China, he set up zones where Western Firms could easily set up shops. Those happens to be major Chinese centers such as Hong Kong and Shanghai. The infrastructures of power, sewer, and a work force were already there. Nothing of the sort existed in the nether regions of China ... except maybe for Lop Nor but I doubt any Western firm would want to do business there, at least not those who are not fronts for the CIA.

Ray
01 May 08,, 19:24
I know you do not trust CPC just like I do not trust CNN.
Do you know CNN is wholly owned by capitalists?

Do you know that China is owned by wannabe Capitalists, who have but recently exchanged their Mao suit for designer wear of the Capitalist West?

In other words, sold their soul and their ideology to the hated West?

Now give me some nice poetic homilies and pious platitude to obfuscate the disgrace and shame that the Chinese Communist, who have risen to where they are only because of Mao, has heaped on Mao and his policies by selling themselves to the hated West!!

Waiting for the CCP party line to hide the most disgraceful act.

Ray
01 May 08,, 19:28
A matter of practicality, Sir. When Deng 1st opened up China, he set up zones where Western Firms could easily set up shops. Those happens to be major Chinese centers such as Hong Kong and Shanghai. The infrastructures of power, sewer, and a work force were already there. Nothing of the sort existed in the nether regions of China ... except maybe for Lop Nor but I doubt any Western firm would want to do business there, at least not those who are not fronts for the CIA.

Colonel,

I would beg to disagree.

It was Han first and Han always.

All this love for the minority is just to ensure Han supremacy and nothing more!

I am being very practical and without emotion!

The nether areas were not opened up to the West not because of any other reason, but because the loyalty of the minority was questionable and still not converted and opening them up to the West would have ensured they are lost forever.

The Khampa rebels is believed to be a US ploy!

Officer of Engineers
01 May 08,, 19:38
Colonel,

I would beg to disagree.

It was Han first and Han always.Sir, that would contradict the deployment of the Xinjiang Production and Construction Corps whose sole purpose was to bring infrastructure to the region.

Ray
01 May 08,, 19:39
When was it established?

The Chinese government formed the XPCC from soldiers from the (Communist) First Field Army, former Guomindang soldiers and the Ili National Army (the military forces of the East Turkestan Republic). The XPCC itself was founded in October 1954, comprising 175,000 military personnel based in Xinjiang, led by Tao Zhiyue as its first commander-in-chief.

And Xinjiang has oil.

Even the Devil would develop it!!

And why was Tibet and Inner Mongolia left out?

FOE
01 May 08,, 19:40
Do you know that China is owned by wannabe Capitalists, who have but recently exchanged their Mao suit for designer wear of the Capitalist West?

.

I don't think so!China is owned by someone?Maybe western media say so!


In other words, sold their soul and their ideology to the hated West?


i don't know who are "they"?

Common chinese people don't hate West;CPC don't hate West too!
Why do you hate CPC so deeply?


Now give me some nice poetic homilies and pious platitude to obfuscate the disgrace and shame that the Chinese Communist, who have risen to where they are only because of Mao, has heaped on Mao and his policies by selling themselves to the hated West!!

Waiting for the CCP party line to hide the most disgraceful act
Mao is preterite now!
We all need harmonious!:))

Ray
01 May 08,, 19:46
[QUOTE=FOE;491438]I don't think so!China is owned by someone?Maybe western media say so!

The western media is not saying so.

I a, saying so.

If someone cannot speak his mind because of fear, then someone is surely owning one!!



i don't know who are "they"?

The harmonious flim flam!!


Common chinese people don't hate West;CPC don't hate West too!
Why do you hate CPC so deeply?

Common people don't hate people.

They hate repression.



Mao is preterite now!
We all need harmonious!:))

To Indian Communists, the only true Communists left in this world, Mao is God. That is Indian loyalty for you!!

The Indian Commies have not sold their soul for money as the Chinese have done and put Mao's ideology in the dustbin of history!!

That is Chinese opportunism! Of course, justified by bogus homilies.

Officer of Engineers
01 May 08,, 19:50
And Xinjiang has oil.Sir,

Precisely. There's money doing it.
And why was Tibet and Inner Mongolia left out?Mainly, Sir, that there's no money doing that.

Ray
01 May 08,, 20:03
So, the love that the CCP members here are displaying for their poor serf brethren is misplaced and bogus.

It is time that all must understand that these areas were annexed in imperialist conquests, then there were periods of pull and pushes, sovereignty, suzerainty, independence etc and then when none were looking Communist China walked in and declared it was theirs!!

And if someone feels it is not so, come and get it!

No requirement of all these silly homilies and pious platitudes and how the Chinese love the world etc etc. These honey laced nonsense charged with falsehood gets the goat!!

Officer of Engineers
01 May 08,, 20:09
So, the love that the CCP members here are displaying for their poor serf brethren is misplaced and bogus.Sir,

Indeed. Have you noticed that they are talking to us about Tibetans instead of talking to Tibetans? We're not the ones who have to be convinced how good Tibetan lives are with the CCP. It is the Tibetans who must be convinced that their future lies with China.

Ray
01 May 08,, 20:13
Colonel,

True.

But I doff my hat to the Chinese Communist for the their loyalty to the CCP!

It maybe out of fear or it maybe genuine.

Yet, it has to be admired!!

Tibetans or Uighurs future is not to be decided by them. The will have to accept the future as decided by Hu and the CCP!!

FOE
01 May 08,, 20:20
[QUOTE]

The western media is not saying so.

I a, saying so.

If someone cannot speak his mind because of fear, then someone is surely owning one!!

.

I'm so sorry to hear that!
Ray,your knowdlege is too old!Freely speech is not a problem in china now!
No fear to say !Now maybe the problem is many young want to find sth. to say to show they are cool!

The harmonious flim flam!!



Common people don't hate people.

They hate repression.





yes, i hate reprssion,too.but as a man not in china,how can you say there is repression in china" to a man who is in china now???

FOE
01 May 08,, 20:24
Tibetans or Uighurs future is not to be decided by them. The will have to accept the future as decided by Hu and the CCP!!

It's funny!
of course they decide!

Ray
01 May 08,, 20:25
[QUOTE=FOE;491485][QUOTE=Ray;491445]

I'm so sorry to hear that!
Ray,your knowdlege is too old!Freely speech is not a problem in china now!
No fear to say !Now maybe the problem is many young want to find sth. to say to show they are cool!

My knowledge is not old, old boy.

I read a lot and I research too.

The Chinese blogger and activist Hu Jia has been arrested. The charge is “subverting state authority,” though in China, as in many countries that repress expression, the actual charges might as well be “consorting with leprechauns.”

He must have got really cool!!


yes, i hate reprssion,too.but as a man not in china,how can you say there is repression in china" to a man who is in china now???

Maybe if you start a blog for this blogger to be freed, I would agree that things are different.

Do let us have the link to see the progress and to which re-eduction camp you are sent!!

Ray
01 May 08,, 20:26
It's funny!
of course they decide!

Who decides?

The CCP and Hu?

You are right!

Ray
01 May 08,, 20:30
Foe,

Let me give you one advice, if I may.

MY experience on this forum has indicated that there are people who are highly educated, knowledgeable and with expertise that is immense.

So, before you post something, keep that in mind.

This is not a juvenile social interacting forum where anything one says goes!!

The Mods are tolerant since they all require a laugh!!

FOE
01 May 08,, 20:57
Who decides?

The CCP and Hu?

You are right!

You should know my meaning.
Of course the tibetians.

FOE
01 May 08,, 21:01
Foe,

Let me give you one advice, if I may.

MY experience on this forum has indicated that there are people who are highly educated, knowledgeable and with expertise that is immense.

So, before you post something, keep that in mind.

This is not a juvenile social interacting forum where anything one says goes!!

The Mods are tolerant since they all require a laugh!!

Thanks for your advice!:)
Maybe I should speak less!!!But do you think this forum need more voice of difference?

Officer of Engineers
01 May 08,, 21:02
Thanks for your advice!:)
Maybe I should speak less!!!But do you think this forum need more voice of difference?Educated voices. At least go and educate yourself 1st.

Ray
01 May 08,, 21:06
Indeed, this forum requires thousand flowers to bloom!

But they must be logical and supported.

You can't expect a daisy to bloom in the North Ole can you?

FOE
01 May 08,, 21:09
Educated voices. At least go and educate yourself 1st.

I agree I should educate myself!Thanks!
There is a problem"why are there so many chinese people want to tell the westers what's condition in our chinese mind?"

FOE
01 May 08,, 21:10
Indeed, this forum requires thousand flowers to bloom!

But they must be logical and supported.

You can't expect a daisy to bloom in the North Ole can you?

I will!

Ray
01 May 08,, 21:14
I agree I should educate myself!Thanks!
There is a problem"why are there so many chinese people want to tell the westers what's condition in our chinese mind?"No problem really.

If we are wrong we are wrong.

You have to prove that we are wrong with logic and not with homilies of the CCP.

Please understand, our minds have been allowed to grow without the ''guidance'' of our govts. Hence, we can think.

Our logic and analysis remains beyond dictation.

If indeed you can prove we are wrong, I shall be the first one to admit it so!!

However, homilies and pious platitudes do not impress me!

Officer of Engineers
01 May 08,, 21:14
You have some parts of it right. The Tibetans are living better lives than ever. It was the CCP who brought in the prosperity. Doesn't mean that no one else could not have done it but the CCP was the one who done and should deserve credit for that.

HOWEVER, the very fact that you've got such a lethal riot indicates that not all is good. There are some very serious problems and thus far, not one of you new posters have addressed any of those issues. Why did the Tibetans rioted? It's very easy to blame the Dali Lama but why would they support the DL?

Have you asked those questions yet?

Ray
01 May 08,, 21:15
TIBET ! - Better World Links (http://www.betterworldlinks.org/index.php?cat=1793)

FOE
01 May 08,, 21:28
I need a sleep!Bye!Next time continue!

Ray
02 May 08,, 20:29
The Moderators seems to have given you Permanent Sleep on this forum.

Sweet Dreams!

FullTank
03 May 08,, 06:44
fulltank,
sorry, i'm no CCP apologist but i doubt that. even disregarding this article, let me know when the dalai's boys raise several hundred million people out of abject poverty.

As soon as they first kill a few million that include chinese and tibetians. They need to first bring the bar to the same level.

Let me know if you'll find it easier to be a PRC apologist(if not a CCP apologist) if Han chinese were to be ruled by someone else...especially if they force on the hans, free japanese education.

Blatant race favoritism is difficult to hide. The Yellow mans burden is true after all.

Officer of Engineers
03 May 08,, 07:15
Blatant race favoritism is difficult to hide. The Yellow mans burden is true after all.I find that extremely offensive considering both Astralis and I stood against the very idea of the CCP. Astralis is an American who works in the Foreign Service.

You will not use those terms again.

Ray
03 May 08,, 09:22
Colonel,

Don't get angry.

I too love India and I too display the same beyond rationale!!

To a disinterested observer, it shows! When the logic appear weak in their eyes and they may be totally wrong!!

You all laugh at me when I say Perceptions! Indeed, it is Perceptions at play and not the intent!!

hx37
04 May 08,, 00:04
There are some very serious problems and thus far, not one of you new posters have addressed any of those issues. Why did the Tibetans rioted? It's very easy to blame the Dali Lama but why would they support the DL?

Wasn't it started because some monks were beat up while they were protesting inside their temples? Although, I have to say that without interviews with the arrested rioters you really can't get a good idea of their reasons. The original protesters may be mainly comprised of deeply devout Tibetans, but later, it could have been people who just saw an opportunity to burn and loot. It's hard to tell without further evidence.

As for supporting DL, if a Tibetan isn't happy with the current gov't, then he doesn't have a lot of choices. I personally find the DL fairly ineffective, he's spent half a century campaigning for Tibetan Independence, then autonomy, and I seriously don't see any significant progress that can be attributed to his actions.

dave lukins
04 May 08,, 00:21
Colonel,

Don't get angry.

I too love India and I too display the same beyond rationale!!

To a disinterested observer, it shows! When the logic appear weak in their eyes and they may be totally wrong!!

You all laugh at me when I say Perceptions! Indeed, it is Perceptions at play and not the intent!!

Angry!! the Brigadier never gets angry.:eek:Perhaps we will at last hear his Battle Cry.."Bolo Hindustan Ki Jai":))

Cactus
04 May 08,, 00:46
Angry!! the Brigadier never gets angry.:eek:Perhaps we will at last hear his Battle Cry.."Bolo Hindustan Ki Jai":))

Lukins saab, "Hindustan" is now passe, it is "Bharat Maa" these days. ;)

Ray
04 May 08,, 06:00
Cactus.

Lord Lukins is 007.

He knows many languages and he has my Regimental Battle Cry right - we do say "Bolo Hindustan ki Jai" as our Battle Cry!!

Of course, Hindustan is passe in other fields.

Officer of Engineers
04 May 08,, 06:36
Colonel,

Don't get angry.Sir,

I am extremely angry with that perception and with the poster. For an idiot who have never stood up against communism who dared to criticize us who did is extremely insulting.

Truth be told, the Tibetans were worth squat all in the scheme of things. I am not willing to bleed for them when they're not willing to bleed for themselves. And frankly, the price we pay for ignoring them was well worth it. The PLA tied up 45 Soviet divisions and helped prevented WWIII. If Fulltank cannot appreciate that, then, he should be the 1st to step in front of of a firing line.

I did not ban him BUT I am NOT willing to allow him to insult me.

Blademaster
04 May 08,, 14:48
Sir,

Truth be told, the Tibetans were worth squat all in the scheme of things. I am not willing to bleed for them when they're not willing to bleed for themselves.

That's where you are wrong.

Check this out.

:: bharat-rakshak.com - The Consortium of Indian Military and Defence Websites :: (http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-FORCES/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=87&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=26)

Tibetans have fought and bled and died for India after their homeland was taken.

Officer of Engineers
04 May 08,, 14:57
That's where you are wrong.No, I'm not, Hitesh. Otherwise, they would be killing and being killed by the Chinese ... with or without India's help and blessings.

Blademaster
04 May 08,, 15:11
Well, frankly, some people in India do not share your perceptions and some of them will challenge you. To India, they have proven themselves and more than paid their dues.

Officer of Engineers
04 May 08,, 15:57
I don't doubt it and I don't doubt that they're extremely good soldiers but again, why are they not fighting in Tibet? There's only two reasons.

1) They're unable.

or

2) They're unwilling.

Blademaster
04 May 08,, 16:00
I don't doubt it and I don't doubt that they're extremely good soldiers but again, why are they not fighting in Tibet? There's only two reasons.

1) They're unable.


And don't forget that the Most of the Tibetan Army was wiped out. They practically fought to the last man allowing precious time for the government of Tibet and some of its people to escape to India.

For the next ten years, Tibetan freedom fighters waged guerrilla warfare against the PLA. It lasted all the way up to 1965 or such.

Officer of Engineers
04 May 08,, 16:18
And don't forget that the Most of the Tibetan Army was wiped out. They practically fought to the last man allowing precious time for the government of Tibet and some of its people to escape to India.

For the next ten years, Tibetan freedom fighters waged guerrilla warfare against the PLA. It lasted all the way up to 1965 or such.You're contradicting yourself, Hitesh. You stated that they're extremely good fighters and now, you're saying they're unable to fight.

Blademaster
04 May 08,, 16:20
You're contradicting yourself, Hitesh. You stated that they're extremely good fighters and now, you're saying they're unable to fight.

GOI will not let them fight. besides most of the military leadership were wiped out. For some reason, there is no military leadership among the tibetans. If there is, it must have been absorbed into the Indian army. Perhaps Ray, Lemontree, and Deltacomelately can shed some light on this.

Officer of Engineers
04 May 08,, 16:35
GOI will not let them fight.Like I said, if they were willing, they would do so with or without India's blessing.


besides most of the military leadership were wiped out.Oh, there's leadership. Big time. The initial protests were co-ordinated. Let's also not forget two things

1) There is a substantial drug trade in Tibet

and

2) 1000 people walk into India every two weeks

Those things don't happen out of the blue. There is co-ordination and planning and despite all that hoopla about Chinese border brutality, the border is leaking big time - both ways. People are leaving and drugs are coming in.

So, the idea that the Tibetans are unable to fight is contradicted big time.

nebula82
04 May 08,, 17:12
A matter of practicality, Sir. When Deng 1st opened up China, he set up zones where Western Firms could easily set up shops. Those happens to be major Chinese centers such as Hong Kong and Shanghai. The infrastructures of power, sewer, and a work force were already there. Nothing of the sort existed in the nether regions of China ... except maybe for Lop Nor but I doubt any Western firm would want to do business there, at least not those who are not fronts for the CIA.

Yes those zones were called Special Economic Zones (SEZs), and also included the cities of Shenzhen & Xiamen but obviously not Hong Kong. Hong Kong was never an SEZ because, well, the city was already a capitalist free-trade economy! Not to mention HK was a British colony back then too so it was under British-rule not Chinese-rule.

Nebula82.

Ray
04 May 08,, 18:47
I don't doubt it and I don't doubt that they're extremely good soldiers but again, why are they not fighting in Tibet? There's only two reasons.

1) They're unable.

or

2) They're unwilling.

The Govt of India wants friendly and fraternal relationship and coalesce the two great culture and civilisations of the world!!


I presume that would be the official statement!!:))

The SFF just cannot walk over and decide to take on the Chinese. It will affect the other non SFF Tibetans and India will not longer accept them!! Dalai Lama is well aware of the same and the Indian Foreign Minister told him so publicly. It is a different matter that the majority of Indians do not share the Foreign Ministers view!!

Ray
04 May 08,, 19:06
Like I said, if they were willing, they would do so with or without India's blessing.

Oh, there's leadership. Big time. The initial protests were co-ordinated. Let's also not forget two things

1) There is a substantial drug trade in Tibet

and

2) 1000 people walk into India every two weeks

Those things don't happen out of the blue. There is co-ordination and planning and despite all that hoopla about Chinese border brutality, the border is leaking big time - both ways. People are leaving and drugs are coming in.

So, the idea that the Tibetans are unable to fight is contradicted big time.

The Tibetan or SFF cannot just walk across into Tibet without the GoI's say so.

If they do so, they will upset the fine balance of Indo - China equation and GoI is very sensitive about the same.

If India is upset, the Tibetan will not longer enjoy the GoI's hospitality.

Therefore, the question of Tibetans doing things as they feel like is suspect!!

It must be realised that the Tibetans are no fools!!

In a totalitarian regime where there is the Thought Police and where it is encouraged and rewarded to report on your neighbours and you family, if indeed the Dalai Lama could coordinate the protests, it indicates the deep hatred for the Chinese. Deep hatred.

Why do I say - deep hatred?

It is said that was serfdom in Tibet before Communist China ''liberated" them. There is also no doubt that materialist comforts have come to Tibet.

Therefore, if life is such a Heaven, why should anyone complain?

Indeed, if some complains inspite of such wondrous achievement,then there is something that is seriously wrong.

There is. For the better or for the worse, the Tibetan refuse to sell their unique identity for lucre!!

Therefore, in such a mindset, there requires no coordination, it requires the repression of a unwanted regime and a alien culture!!

If it was so heavenly in Tibet, then why should one abandon his home and hearth and flee into an uncertain and alien future i.e. run away from Tibet ??

nebula82
04 May 08,, 19:17
The Govt of India wants friendly and fraternal relationship and coalesce the two great culture and civilisations of the world!!

Please forgive me for going off-topic, but I have always wondered, are India & China the world's two oldest civilisations? Or maybe Iran (Persia)?

Thx,
Nebula82.

Ray
04 May 08,, 19:20
Please forgive me for going off-topic, but I have always wondered, are India & China the world's two oldest civilisations? Or maybe Iran (Persia)?

Thx,
Nebula82.

I wouldn't know and I really don't care.

It is what is bandied by the jingos.

I am a person of the present.

And it is the present that worries me!

It doesn't worry me as to whose is the longest or the shortest. What concerns me, is what is the most efficient!

nebula82
04 May 08,, 19:27
I wouldn't know and I really don't care.

It is what is bandied by the jingos.

Huh?


I am a person of the present.

And it is the present that worries me!

It doesn't worry me as to whose is the longest or the shortest. What concerns me, is what is the most efficient!

Fair enough, it is the here & now, and the future we should be looking at.

Thx & good night,
Nebula82.

Ray
04 May 08,, 19:29
Huh?



Fair enough, it is the here & now, and the future we should be looking at.

Thx & good night,
Nebula82.

What earth shaking comment have you made?

1947
05 May 08,, 09:03
I know you do not trust CPC just like I do not trust CNN.
Do you know CNN is wholly owned by capitalists?

yes but the western world has a variety of other INDEPENDENT newspapers NOT OWNED by the GOVERNMENT

Mobbme
06 May 08,, 08:47
I'm so sorry to hear that!
Freely speech is not a problem in china now! No fear to say !Now maybe the problem is many young want to find sth. to say to show they are cool!

yes, i hate reprssion,too.but as a man not in china,how can you say there is repression in china" to a man who is in china now???

Well, thats really good for you I guess. While i've been up, I looked it up and found that "India ranks 120th worldwide in press freedom index." That being said, I doubt its much better than your situation.

The reasons why:
However this right is subject to restrictions under subclause (2), whereby this freedom can be restricted for reasons of "sovereignty and integrity of India, the security of the State, friendly relations with foreign States, public order, preserving decency, preserving morality, in relation to contempt of court, defamation, or incitement to an offence". Laws such as the Official Secrets Act and Prevention of Terrorism Act [12] (PoTA) have been used to limit press freedom. Under PoTA, person could be detained for up to six months for being in contact with a terrorist or terrorist group. PoTA was repealed in 2006, but the Official Secrets Act 1923 continues.

I do see why its benefial for the Indian government, but its still not as free as the west.

EDIT: Got the full list. India's actually a bit further from the middle, whereas China is closer to the last.

So I guess China's
Although the 1982 constitution guarantees freedom of speech is bullocks.

Ray
06 May 08,, 12:04
People working with sensitive information are commonly required to sign a statement to the effect that they agree to abide by the restrictions of the Official Secrets Act. This is popularly referred to as "signing the Official Secrets Act". Signing this has no effect on which actions are legal as the act is not a contract. As the act is law individuals are bound by it whether or not they have signed it, signing it is intended more as a reminder to the person that they are under such obligations. To this end, it is common to sign this statement both before and after a period of employment that involves access to secrets.

The Indian Official Secrets Act is the extension of the British Official Secrets Act.

Am I to understand in Canada, one can leak out sensitive information like operational plans etc? If so, Canada is a real free county.

And by the way, we have Right to Information Act. I thought I should let you know so that you do not belabour under wrong information or purvey the same, without understanding its meaning!

POTA is no longer in vogue. You of course would not understand why POTA was there because you have no idea as to what a terrorist is!! Let a couple of cities have bomb blast and let a few 1000 die and you will realise the same.

The US has the Patriot Act. By your index, the US is not a free country!! :eek:

The Patriot Act is like POTA (though no longer in vogue) and it is against terrorists!

Officer of Engineers
07 May 08,, 05:33
Am I to understand in Canada, one can leak out sensitive information like operational plans etc? If so, Canada is a real free county.Sir,

As with your country, those who knows shut up. Those who don't bullcrap. You will note, Sir, that all military professionals on this board based their postings on publicly available information. In fact, we do not extrpolulate based upon that publicly available info.

Sir, you and I can look at a map and see what our people are going to do next even though we have not been briefed ... but we say nothing ... just in case that we are right and give the other side that knowledge.

tankie
07 May 08,, 07:07
Sir,

As with your country, those who knows shut up. Those who don't bullcrap. You will note, Sir, that all military professionals on this board based their postings on publicly available information. In fact, we do not extrpolulate based upon that publicly available info.

Sir, you and I can look at a map and see what our people are going to do next even though we have not been briefed ... but we say nothing ... just in case that we are right and give the other side that knowledge.


Well said Col. ;)

Ray
07 May 08,, 07:11
Sir,

As with your country, those who knows shut up. Those who don't bullcrap. You will note, Sir, that all military professionals on this board based their postings on publicly available information. In fact, we do not extrpolulate based upon that publicly available info.

Sir, you and I can look at a map and see what our people are going to do next even though we have not been briefed ... but we say nothing ... just in case that we are right and give the other side that knowledge.

Tankie beat me to the draw.

Indeed, well said!

tankie
07 May 08,, 07:13
Tankie beat me to the draw.

Indeed, well said!


Only by a single malt Sir.:)

Ray
07 May 08,, 19:13
I am have a swig of White Mischief right now!!

tankie
08 May 08,, 08:54
I am have a swig of White Mischief right now!!

Never heard of that brand Sir , but i will give it a look out :))

art
08 May 08,, 10:17
I post a reply on this article on China Daily Website - Connecting China Connecting the World (http://www.chinadaily.com.cn) and it never made it thru, it got sensored out, just typical for a CCP web page.

dave lukins
08 May 08,, 13:58
Never heard of that brand Sir , but i will give it a look out :))

Not your tipple dear boy, I do believe it's Vodka;)

Ray
08 May 08,, 14:20
So called vodka!! :))

I prefer Absolut or the Russian brand, the spelling of which I can never remember!

Knaur Amarsh
08 May 08,, 16:11
So called vodka!! :))

I prefer Absolut or the Russian brand, the spelling of which I can never remember!

Absolut:eek:.......but then again,I am not a vodka person

Smirnoff seems fine though....as far as vodkas go i.e.:rolleyes:

Mobbme
08 May 08,, 22:48
Absolut:eek:.......but then again,I am not a vodka person

Smirnoff seems fine though....as far as vodkas go i.e.:rolleyes:

Absolut's sweeter. It's alot like the Grey Goose (top brand). If you're not into the Smirnoff Rasberry/Watermellon etc Vodka's, then stick with Absolut.

Knaur Amarsh
09 May 08,, 06:47
Absolut's sweeter. It's alot like the Grey Goose (top brand). If you're not into the Smirnoff Rasberry/Watermellon etc Vodka's, then stick with Absolut.

or stick to whiskey:))

Mobbme
09 May 08,, 22:20
or stick to whiskey:))

haha, so you're into the strong tastes. Unfortunately, my sensitive stomache can't even handle a shot of the sweetest vodka on the rocks :eek: Thats why I can only manage to drink beers, and if its vodka, has to be mixed in ALOT of juice so theres no taste of the alcohol :redface:

gunnut
09 May 08,, 23:08
Try Belvediere from Poland. It's the best vodka on the planet. It's smooth going down, with no after taste.

If you're adventurous and want to try something spicy, Thor's Hammer from Sweden (where else :rolleyes:) packs a good kick.

Mobbme
09 May 08,, 23:12
Try Belvediere from Poland. It's the best vodka on the planet. It's smooth going down, with no after taste.

If you're adventurous and want to try something spicy, Thor's Hammer from Sweden (where else :rolleyes:) packs a good kick.

I think i've tried it, and it was very smooth; didn't upset the stomach (was only mixed in water aswell)

Heh, i'm not that adventurous anymore :) I used to be able to pick up a jug of bacardi/whiskey and just put it to my mouth and chug! Now, the smell of it gives me the gags

Kansas Bear
09 May 08,, 23:59
haha, so you're into the strong tastes. Unfortunately, my sensitive stomache can't even handle a shot of the sweetest vodka


There always Laphroaig(10yr)! :)

Bowmore(12yr) is nice, but Talisker(10yr) is better, IMO. :)

Officer of Engineers
10 May 08,, 00:20
The man has discovered his roots.

Mobbme
10 May 08,, 01:18
There always Laphroaig(10yr)! :)

Bowmore(12yr) is nice, but Talisker(10yr) is better, IMO. :)

Hey KB, still too strong! Had the "pimp shot" at a strip club at niagara falls the other weekend -vodka in redbull, still wasn't able to down it.

It's all beers beers for me now

P.S On the bright side, since im a chugger and not really a sipper, with beers I can control my limit :biggrin:

Mobbme
10 May 08,, 01:18
The man has discovered his roots.


:biggrin: