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Traps
28 Apr 08,, 09:59
Thought Leader Michael Trapido Zimbabwe presidency results: I smell a rat (http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/04/27/zimbabwe-presidency-results-i-smell-a-rat/)

Mad Bob's going to try half-inch it.....

dave lukins
28 Apr 08,, 14:10
Thought Leader Michael Trapido Zimbabwe presidency results: I smell a rat (http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/04/27/zimbabwe-presidency-results-i-smell-a-rat/)

Mad Bob's going to try half-inch it.....

No surprise there Mike. He is certainly a parlous miscreant if there ever was one.

rj1
28 Apr 08,, 14:57
Traps, has the immigration of Zimbabweans into South Africa and other surrounding countries increased significantly since the elections?

Traps
28 Apr 08,, 19:55
There has been a lot of movement on both sides of the border. Some going accross to try and vote others trying to slip out.

If Morgan Tsvangirai comes in we will celebrate a new dawn for the friendliest people in Africa - The Zimbabweans.

gunnut
28 Apr 08,, 20:08
Why can't we have a benign dictator in Africa for once? One who is focused on bringing order and prosperity to his nation, like what Singapore has done.

Traps
30 Apr 08,, 14:06
South Africa again shielding Mugabe at the U.N!

Thought Leader Michael Trapido Zimbabwean dystopia : Why, South Africa? Why? (http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/04/30/zimbabwean-dystopia-why-south-africa-why/)

Ray
30 Apr 08,, 15:47
Can someone from South African Africa tell me why Mbeki is so soft on this Mugabwe?

I have very little background knowledge of the power politics in Africa.

Ray
30 Apr 08,, 19:58
Security Council Voices Reluctance to Act on Zimbabwe

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/world/africa/30zimbabwe.html?ref=world

I smell greater rats!

lunar
15 May 08,, 23:54
I have a question. You know they way in Zimbabwe if the presidential candidate does not win a out right majority they have to call another election. Is this the case in any other country or is the purpose of this electoral system basically to ensure that Mugabe remain in power.

gunnut
16 May 08,, 01:06
I have a question. You know they way in Zimbabwe if the presidential candidate does not win a out right majority they have to call another election. Is this the case in any other country or is the purpose of this electoral system basically to ensure that Mugabe remain in power.

That's actually very common in a parliamentary system. A field of candidates running on different platforms will divide votes to the point that no one has the majority. The top 2 vote getters will then participate in a run-off vote to see who gets the majority. It's much easier to get a majority from a field of 2 than a field of 5 or 6 or even 10.

Ironduke
16 May 08,, 01:37
That's actually very common in a parliamentary system. A field of candidates running on different platforms will divide votes to the point that no one has the majority. The top 2 vote getters will then participate in a run-off vote to see who gets the majority. It's much easier to get a majority from a field of 2 than a field of 5 or 6 or even 10.
Actually, it has nothing to do with a parliamentary system. In parliamentary systems (which can be proportionally or single-member district based), the executive (prime minister) is elected by the members of the majority party or coalition parties that form a government which hold a majority of seats in the national legislature. The executives in parliamentary systems are not subject to a popular vote.

It's relatively uncommon in presidential systems, and more common in semi-presidential (France, Russia) forms of government. Zimbabwe used to be a semi-presidential system which was abolished by Mugabe who changed it to a presidential system. An FYI, a semi-presidential system has both a (non-ceremonial) president and a prime minister (who usually tend to deal more with foreign and domestic policy respectively), and a presidential system has no prime minister.

gunnut
16 May 08,, 01:44
My apologies. I shall update my understanding of these hard to understand ;) and un-American systems. :biggrin:

Forget what I wrote in my previous post, Lunar. I conveniently meshed the 2 systems together.

Ironduke
16 May 08,, 01:46
My apologies. I shall update my understanding of these hard to understand ;) and un-American systems. :biggrin:

Forget what I wrote in my previous post, Lunar. I conveniently meshed the 2 systems together.
It doesn't have so much to do with whether it's a presidential or semi-presidential system either, it's just the specific electoral laws that exist in those systems.

Ray
16 May 08,, 02:27
The executives in parliamentary systems are not subject to a popular vote.


An amplification:

The executive of parliamentary systems have to be elected Members of the Parliament (MPs).

For general info:

In certain countries, as in India, certain seats are also for nominated Members of Parliament wherein eminent personalities of different walks of life are inducted for their 'expertise' to make the Parliament a whole. Amongst the nominated seats, there are also reserved seats for those minority communities which have so low a population, that they cannot get elected in general constituencies unless fielded by a political party i.e. Parsis, Anglo-Indians (British father and Indian mother) etc. This ensures that their viewpoint is represented in the Parliament, even if none is elected.

Ironduke
16 May 08,, 07:38
The executive of parliamentary systems have to be elected Members of the Parliament (MPs).
Well, for a prime minister to be prime minister, he/she must:

1. Be elected from a district
2. Be in a party that makes up the majority party/coalition
3. Be elected leader of that party/coalition

If 1 and 2 don't happen, there's no 3.

tankie
16 May 08,, 08:30
No surprise there Mike. He is certainly a parlous miscreant if there ever was one.

Wow Dave , what a thing to say , i thought he was just a c** t .:mad:

Ray
16 May 08,, 13:30
What is c**t?

tankie
17 May 08,, 06:36
What is c**t?

What Mugabe is .

*un* :rolleyes:

Traps
18 May 08,, 12:47
Thought Leader Michael Trapido Zimbabwe: Let Vavi act as mediator, Mbeki is needed at home (http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/17/zimbabwe-let-vavi-act-as-mediator-mbeki-is-needed-at-home/)

:))

Mugabe hates Cosatu and banned them from coming into Zim. He'd love my solution.

Traps
26 May 08,, 18:29
Bit of light relief during the build up to the Zimbabwe Run-off

Thought Leader Michael Trapido Zimbabwe run-off: Now that's entertainment! (http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/26/zimbabwe-run-off-now-thats-entertainment/)

Officer of Engineers
26 May 08,, 20:45
Michael,

You're not suggesting that we look to the stars for Bob's answers. Are you?

Traps
27 May 08,, 07:07
Don't be ridiculous - I'm suggesting that - When the moon is in the 7th House and Jupiter aligns with Mars, then peace will guide the planets and love ..... But I digress....

Traps
28 May 08,, 18:26
2 updates :

Thought Leader Michael Trapido Is Mugabe trying to manipulate the Zimbabwean xenophobia victims? (http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/27/is-mugabe-trying-to-manipulate-the-zimbabean-xenophobia-victims/)

Thought Leader Michael Trapido Is Zimbabwe the Nazi Germany of Africa? (http://www.thoughtleader.co.za/traps/2008/05/27/zimbabwe-the-nazi-germany-of-africa/)

Officer of Engineers
28 May 08,, 18:38
Michael,

Forgive me for not knowing the situation but aren't people leaving Zimbabwei?

Traps
28 May 08,, 18:42
It's ironic - Bob's driving masses of Tsvangirai supporters out while offering refuge to victims of xenophobia.

Of course they were the ones he drove out last time.

Officer of Engineers
28 May 08,, 18:57
I'm surprised that he has started a war yet.

Traps
28 May 08,, 19:12
I'm sure the residents of Zim feel as though it has started. If he loses - stand by!

BenRoethig
28 May 08,, 22:33
when was the last time there was a fair election in Africa. Europe did a real good job of strip mining the place and then leaving it in complete chaos.

dave lukins
28 May 08,, 22:38
Don't be ridiculous - I'm suggesting that - When the moon is in the 7th House and Jupiter aligns with Mars, then peace will guide the planets and love ..... But I digress....

Mike ...stop pulling your HAIR out:)) Marsha Hunt wouldn't like it

dave lukins
28 May 08,, 22:43
when was the last time there was a fair election in Africa. Europe did a real good job of strip mining the place and then leaving it in complete chaos.

How long ago was this? Who has the Diamond and Gold mines and who controls the prices on these. (would'nt be De Beers would it) ;) Europe?? One diamond sold today for 3million.:eek:

BenRoethig
29 May 08,, 15:00
How long ago was this? Who has the Diamond and Gold mines and who controls the prices on these. (would'nt be De Beers would it) ;) Europe?? One diamond sold today for 3million.:eek:

Where did the owners of De Beers come from? The Netherlands Where is their main office located? London. When it comes down to it, you carved up africa by territory instead ethnic lines, then after a couple hundred years cut and run with no means of the government to support itself and figured everything was going to be just fine.

glyn
29 May 08,, 15:23
Where did the owners of De Beers come from? The Netherlands Where is their main office located? London. When it comes down to it, you carved up africa by territory instead ethnic lines, then after a couple hundred years cut and run with no means of the government to support itself and figured everything was going to be just fine.

You? Meaning us? Well, of course you're so right! Anyone but the Americans. You personally and nationally are utterly blameless, aren't you? I mean the CIA never meddles in anyone elses affairs - and god forbid you ever have proxy wars where you arm one side against another in distant countries. That would be quite unthinkable, wouldn't it? The almighty dollar never ruins the rural economy or stability of foreign lands, does it? No, of course not. Bullying just isn't in your vocabulary! And we're so grateful to the Americans for pointing out the shortcomings of others. Really we are, otherwise we would be in danger of thinking ourselves as almost adequate.

Officer of Engineers
29 May 08,, 15:25
Nothing the West did explains Rwanda nor Dafur.

felakuti
29 May 08,, 15:30
Where did the owners of De Beers come from? The Netherlands Where is their main office located? London. When it comes down to it, you carved up africa by territory instead ethnic lines, then after a couple hundred years cut and run with no means of the government to support itself and figured everything was going to be just fine.

Eurpoe ass raped us but we ass raped ourselves when after independence we failed to carve out new countries along ethnic lines and for that we have only ourselves to blame.

BenRoethig
29 May 08,, 15:33
You? Meaning us? Well, of course you're so right! Anyone but the Americans. You personally and nationally are utterly blameless, aren't you? I mean the CIA never meddles in anyone elses affairs - and god forbid you ever have proxy wars where you arm one side against another in distant countries. That would be quite unthinkable, wouldn't it? The almighty dollar never ruins the rural economy or stability of foreign lands, does it? No, of course not. Bullying just isn't in your vocabulary! And we're so grateful to the Americans for pointing out the shortcomings of others. Really we are, otherwise we would be in danger of thinking ourselves as almost adequate.

I'm not saying we're blameless for anything. I'm just saying we have to fess up to our mistakes. I'm sorry, but most of the world's instability today are a result of colonization and in many how ties were cut.

BenRoethig
29 May 08,, 15:37
Nothing the West did explains Rwanda nor Dafur.

Genocides are usually along tribal lines. Usually one tribe has power in a country and another wants it. As with the Balkans, putting two different ethic groups inside the same borders is a recipe for disaster.

ArmchairGeneral
29 May 08,, 16:22
Genocides are usually along tribal lines. Usually one tribe has power in a country and another wants it. As with the Balkans, putting two different ethic groups inside the same borders is a recipe for disaster.

Like America, Canada, France, Britain, Germany, Belgium, Spain, Russia, Switzerland, India, China, and many more? If you start dividing everything along ethnic lines, it's hard to decide where to stop. If you did it in Africa you would have hundreds of tiny, barely viable countries. Ethnic homogeneity is nice to have, but often impractical. People have to learn to get along before stability is possible. It's not impossible; as you can see, it has worked in the past. It's working right now in Rwanda, where reconciliation between Hutus and Tutsis has progressed remarkably.

Traps
29 May 08,, 17:51
AG you're in the right ballpark. It's not feasible as much as some tribes might wish to make it a reality.

gunnut
29 May 08,, 18:50
Like America, Canada, France, Britain, Germany, Belgium, Spain, Russia, Switzerland, India, China, and many more? If you start dividing everything along ethnic lines, it's hard to decide where to stop. If you did it in Africa you would have hundreds of tiny, barely viable countries. Ethnic homogeneity is nice to have, but often impractical. People have to learn to get along before stability is possible. It's not impossible; as you can see, it has worked in the past. It's working right now in Rwanda, where reconciliation between Hutus and Tutsis has progressed remarkably.

It almost sounds like you believe Tibet, Chechnya, Bosnia, Macedonia, Kosovo, and numerous other tiny nations should have remained part of the larger nations they seceeded from. :biggrin:

I've always wondered why these tiny nations choose to seperate from a larger republic simply based on ethnic/religious lines. Of course, why it is they can remain relatively peaceful in Europe but not Africa or Asia.

ArmchairGeneral
29 May 08,, 19:47
It almost sounds like you believe Tibet, Chechnya, Bosnia, Macedonia, Kosovo, and numerous other tiny nations should have remained part of the larger nations they seceeded from. :biggrin:

It really depends on the situation, but I do think that the Balkanisation of the Balkans may not have been entirely positive. At the same time, if another ethnic group is killing yours, it's hard to argue against trying to get away.


I've always wondered why these tiny nations choose to seperate from a larger republic simply based on ethnic/religious lines. Of course, why it is they can remain relatively peaceful in Europe but not Africa or Asia.

It does work outside of Europe, just not as often. India is an excellent example. And it doesn't always work even in the advanced nations of the West -Canada, Britain, Spain, and even Belgium have had problems with ethnic tensions in recent years.

BenRoethig
29 May 08,, 20:00
It almost sounds like you believe Tibet, Chechnya, Bosnia, Macedonia, Kosovo, and numerous other tiny nations should have remained part of the larger nations they seceeded from. :biggrin:

I've always wondered why these tiny nations choose to seperate from a larger republic simply based on ethnic/religious lines. Of course, why it is they can remain relatively peaceful in Europe but not Africa or Asia.

There's enough resources to go around in western europe, the same can't be said of the third world. Plus, after a couple hundred years, I think they're just plain sick of wars.

BenRoethig
29 May 08,, 20:05
It really depends on the situation, but I do think that the Balkanisation of the Balkans may not have been entirely positive. At the same time, if another ethnic group is killing yours, it's hard to argue against trying to get away.



It does work outside of Europe, just not as often. India is an excellent example.

I wouldn't be so fast on that one. India and Pakistan used to be the same country. The Hindu and Muslim populations couldn't find much common ground after independence and now they're pointing nukes at each other.

ArmchairGeneral
29 May 08,, 20:19
I wouldn't be so fast on that one. India and Pakistan used to be the same country. The Hindu and Muslim populations couldn't find much common ground after independence and now they're pointing nukes at each other.

You are correct. Sometimes division is necessary. But India is still an incredibly heterogenous country that is doing quite well for itself.

ArmchairGeneral
29 May 08,, 20:25
There's enough resources to go around in western europe, the same can't be said of the third world.

Natural, or human? Many third world countries have plenty of natural resources, and very few are as resource poor as, say, Switzerland. It's the human resources to properly exploit those natural resources that are lacking.


Plus, after a couple hundred years, I think they're just plain sick of wars.

I hope so. But I'm not too optimistic.

glyn
29 May 08,, 20:55
[QUOTE=BenRoethig;500415]I'm not saying we're blameless for anything. I'm just saying we have to fess up to our mistakes. I'm sorry, but most of the world's instability today are a result of colonization

There is something in what you say but European colonisation stopped long ago. There are many in the world who see American corporations effectively (but covertly) doing the same thing today. Ain't life difficult?

BenRoethig
30 May 08,, 00:21
Long ago? The British African colonies were jettisoned until the 60s and France still owns a chunk of south america.