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  • chinese culture and politics 101

    for those who frequently quote chinese culture, I love to put my two cents here (i hope my just so so english can deliver it).

    the core of chinese culture is about entering Tian Tang (goal), which means heaven, an alternative term for survive and prosper.

    it is also about Ying Yang (method). Taoism and buddism are ying, confuciusm and legalism are yang, flexibility is ying, aggressiveness is yang, being Deng is ying, being Mao is yang.

    good/bad cop is yingyang, putting eggs in different basket is yingyang, minority and ruling elite is yingyang.

    democrat is ying, republican is yang. did you get it?

    In chinese eyes, modern world including commercial civilization (material) and noncommercial civilization (spiritual), both are very important, how to mix them at a optimal percentage is He Xie ( the method to use methods), he xie means harmony in english.

    all other fancy terms, such as Confucianism, democracy, Christianity, Islam... are all lingeries not the body. and communism, racism, terrorism are just Halloween's party customes, when chinese feel or see a threat, they will put on a scary clothe, when they feel safe, they will take it off at a snap of fingers, and change for a sexy gown.

    Personally, i think chinese culture is a very powerful one, but you don't have to worry too much, even if someday it prevails(i doubt it will be so in the near future, though), worst scenario is you can join them then wait for your turn to prevail. because being chinese in not about skin color. it is about knowing and supporting the ideas of "tian tang", "ying yang" and "he xie", if you can archieve that , you can be more chinese than han chinese.

    on the other hand, if you insist that chinese culture is a huge threat and want to remove it from earth, then be my guest.

  • #2
    I strongly disagree with such a simplistic approach to view Chinese politics. It is no more complex nor simple as any other system. There are a different set of values but the approach is identical. What is in your own best interests?

    I've asked the question before and thus far, no Chinese national ever got my point. Could the CCP survive another 1979 1st Sino-Vietnam War when they lost 30,000 troops just to teach Vietnam a lesson. In 30 days, Deng Xia Peng threw away 30,000 lives. Could Hu do this?

    There is no Ying or Yang or whatever. Everything is based upon cold blooded calculations. Again, I raise the example of the 1st 1979 Sino-Vietnam War. The target was not Hanoi but Moscow. The 38th and 39th Group Armies stayed north. They did not go south.

    Why would anyone send 2nd rate troops against a prepared defence that had over 6 months to prepare? Frankly I was amazed at how well those troops actually did in destroying 3 Vietnamese Provincial Capital but that does not excuse the fact there was no ying or yang to this. China needed to break the Soviet encirclement and proceeded to do so.

    As for the Tibet issue, again if you have known the history, it was Deng Xia Peng who forever took the politics off the table with any negotiations with the Dali Lama. The only thing the CCP will negotiate with the man is where he can sleep.

    If there is any term I would use with the current CCP rule, it is pragmaticism. I strongly believe that the Chinese people are more than capable of practicing democracy but at this point, they are not willing, mainly because DXP's momentum has not run out of steam just yet.

    But by far my main disagreement with this thesis is that the Chinese views this as a ho-hum affair. "We will take this in stride" type mentality. Chinese history has proven this mentality to be false. People died. And people struggled through blood and tears to put China back together again time and time again. That kind of fortitude requires belief. It is not putting on a jacket and taking off the coat at convience.

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    • #3
      Luffaman,

      As it is, it is difficult to understand the Chinese philosophy and you have made it more difficult.

      Though thank you for the attempt.

      As I understand, it is the philosophy of being in harmony with the universe.

      While Confucianism is about governance and family harmony.


      "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

      I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

      HAKUNA MATATA

      Comment


      • #4
        Luffaman,Thank you for your explanation of Chinese culture...you did what I never dared to do:))

        Every conception you mentioned above is every complex. For example, I am affected by Taoism a lot, but even so far I cannot explain it to another successfully.

        I found one interesting thing: China likes to talk about Confucianism. However, if one looks deeper into China's history, she would find that leaders/kings preferred to use 法家(fa jia/ I dont know how to translate it) to control their people actually, though they did put Confucianism in front of them.
        Cinderella was a Chinese.

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        • #5
          Fiona,

          There is no daring or not daring in this issue.

          It was rather nice of Luffaman to explain such issues. We have to learn of each other so that this world really becomes a global village.

          I am aware that the Chinese philosophy or for that matter the Indian philosophy are awfully difficult to explain and more difficult to understand.

          Each aspect has many nuances and interpretation and that is what makes it very difficult.

          And yet, there is much sense and a sense of peace descends.

          I have tried hard to understand, but I have failed!


          "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

          I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

          HAKUNA MATATA

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ray View Post
            Fiona,

            There is no daring or not daring in this issue.

            It was rather nice of Luffaman to explain such issues. We have to learn of each other so that this world really becomes a global village.

            I am aware that the Chinese philosophy or for that matter the Indian philosophy are awfully difficult to explain and more difficult to understand.

            Each aspect has many nuances and interpretation and that is what makes it very difficult.

            And yet, there is much sense and a sense of peace descends.

            I have tried hard to understand, but I have failed!
            In fact, if I were him, I would choose a much smaller title to talk about.

            He is nice! I also think so. However, I also failed to understand it...

            For me, I am also not sure about what is Chinese tradition exactly. I just read hundreds of Chinese classic books, and when I come across specific things/ activities/ events one day after that, I may deal with it according to the books automatically. Perhaps ten years later, I can gain more ability to summarize what is the tradition and how it led me to do in that way at that time...

            Very complex. For example, I am affected by Taoism a lot, and in the classic book for Taoism, the first sentence is just "道可道,非常道"(dao ke dao, fei chang dao/ translated directly: tao can tao, not common tao/ translated by me: the tao that could be told is not external tao) After the sentence, more complicate...
            Cinderella was a Chinese.

            Comment


            • #7
              Understanding philosophy is not an easy thing.

              Take Kamasutra (there was a debate on our TV on sex education a few hours back and so I remember this). Those chaps on TV glibly spoke of it and sex education to win brownie points (as we do here!) and got so confused that it confused me!!

              If you read Kamasutra, it might appear horny. But read it in context of the times when population was dwindling and it required bringing zest to one's life!!

              Indeed some of the poses would win gymnastics at your Olympics!
              Last edited by Ray; 26 Apr 08,, 21:10.


              "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

              I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

              HAKUNA MATATA

              Comment


              • #8
                For me, it is extremely simple about politics. Forget this culture mumbo-jumbo, study the decision makers. It is a lot easier from that perspective on. You don't have that clutter that has nothing to do with the decision made. So, Deng Xia Peng drinks tea in the morning like every other Chinese, what has that got to do with his invasion of Vietnam? See?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Officer of Engineers View Post
                  For me, it is extremely simple about politics. Forget this culture mumbo-jumbo, study the decision makers. It is a lot easier from that perspective on. You don't have that clutter that has nothing to do with the decision made. So, Deng Xia Peng drinks tea in the morning like every other Chinese, what has that got to do with his invasion of Vietnam? See?
                  Exactly!
                  Cinderella was a Chinese.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It matter a lot Colonel.

                    Have you tried Green Tea and Jasmine tea?

                    It helps to keep you fit and the mind cool.

                    I know you will not agree, but I have seen that with Darjeeling or Jasmine, I feel happy and with coffee, it affects my cool!!

                    I maybe wrong.

                    Read that report (BBC) that a hearty breakfast by mothers produces boy child! Mumbo Jumbo, but statistically true or so says the report!!
                    Last edited by Ray; 26 Apr 08,, 22:08.


                    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                    HAKUNA MATATA

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ray View Post
                      It matter a lot Colonel.

                      Have you tried Green Tea and Jasmine tea?
                      Sir, I'm now a green tea man after my wife cut me off from my two pots of coffee a day.

                      Originally posted by Ray View Post
                      It helps to keep you fit and the mind cool.
                      Sir, I missed the caffine hit that is in the coffee.

                      Originally posted by Ray View Post
                      I know you will not agree, but I have seen that with Darjeeling or Jasmine, I feel happy and with coffee, it affects my cool!!

                      I maybe wrong.
                      Well, Sir, is that an excuse? I know I was addicted to coffee and I pretty much down two cups before I start my day but that would be a poor excuse not to get your orders out on time.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Colonel,

                        I perceived a definite change in you but I could not place it as to why.

                        Now, I know.

                        Instead of water for you meals, try Jasmine tea!

                        The doctors at the Army Hospital where I go for my annual medical are surprised as to how I am so healthy!

                        :Touch wood:


                        "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                        I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                        HAKUNA MATATA

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          i laugh every time i hear anyone explain chinese culture like this.

                          is it their way of glossing over a repressive regime by whitewashing all their glaring faults?

                          I even heard the IOC chief Rogge say you never get anywhere by confrontation wiht the "east", you make them lose face this way.

                          sorry, but when china's government goes ( and it will ) i will be pointing out all the bullsh*t that was previously said and ask those people what happened to their glorious vision of the future.
                          Illegitimi non carborundum

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            For me, it is extremely simple about politics. Forget this culture mumbo-jumbo, study the decision makers. It is a lot easier from that perspective on.
                            Sir, may I ask who exactly are the decision makers in the CCP? I am fairly sure that Hu JinTao does not command the same level of support as Deng or Mao back in the day, so how exactly is the CCP governing the nation? Is the Chairman reaching compromises with other factions within the party, or is he attempting to force some reforms (hopefully) through? Does the PLA have a say in internal matters?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              CDF is down at the moment but I do have a directory of who's who in the CCP. I'll post it once I can access CDF.

                              You are correct that there is a lot more wheeling and dealing than before but for the most part, the moderates are in control and they are trying to learn as they go.

                              General Cao, the current Minister of Defence, has forever gotten the PLA out of politics. You will note that the PLA was not used in Tibet this time around and it would take a very special session of the Politburo with the agreement of the Central Military Commission to get the PLA to repeat Tianamen Square which from the PLA's perspective, was an illegal order. That was later affirmed in 1982.

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