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xrough
19 Apr 08,, 15:07
Anti-French rallies across China

Protesters in several Chinese cities have gathered to demand a boycott of French products and denounce campaigns for Tibetan independence.

Hundreds of people demonstrated in cities including Beijing, Wuhan, Hefei, Kunming, and Qingdao - often outside stores of the French chain Carrefour.

Passions ran high, but the protests were closely patrolled by police.

Protesters say they are angry at the scale of protests that accompanied the Olympic torch relay in Paris.

They have also denounced French President Nicolas Sarkozy's refusal to confirm whether he will attend the opening ceremony of the Games.

Pictures from the central city of Wuhan showed large crowds congregating outside a Carrefour supermarket.

The chain, which reportedly operates more than 100 outlets in China, has restated its support for Beijing's hosting of the Olympics this August, but is accused by some protesters of backing the campaign for Tibetan independence.

"Oppose Tibet independence, support the Olympics," read one placard; "Say no to French goods," said another.

Some placards went further, depicting Nazi swastikas on the French flag.

Many protesters also bore images of the disabled Chinese athlete Jin Jing, who shot to prominence in China after fending off anti-Beijing protesters in Paris.

In Beijing, protests were reported at a Carrefour, and outside the French embassy and a French school, though police were said to have dispersed the crowds rapidly.

"For the moment, it's pretty calm," a Carrefour employee in Beijing told AFP news agency earlier on Saturday, confirming that dozens of protesters had gathered outside.

"There is a strong feeling that authorities do not want it to get out of hand," said the employee, who did not want to be named.

Campaigners for Tibetan independence have used the Olympics torch relay in several cities around the world to stage public protests against Chinese rule in Tibet.

Scuffles between torch bearers and protesters in cities including London and Paris have forced host nations to mount tight security operations to protect the torch on its journey.

cesm
19 Apr 08,, 16:27
"Oppose Tibet independence, support the Olympics," read one placard; "Say no to French goods," said another.
"Say no to Chinese industry" at the same time. But France will have to pay for Paris events, for sure. First the USA reprisals for Iraq, now China's anger, it will become a french habit...
:rolleyes:

Some placards went further, depicting Nazi swastikas on the French flag.
I didn't know. They win a Godwin point.


Many protesters also bore images of the disabled Chinese athlete Jin Jing, who shot to prominence in China after fending off anti-Beijing protesters in Paris.
I apologize for this. Policemen should have thrown these guys away of the Chinese woman. (I've read that at least one of these pro-Tibet guys wasn't French, lives in America and was involved London's protests, too.)

1947
20 Apr 08,, 02:05
thank god for the French
we have all seen the stereotypes the Frenchman defeated by germans in war ungrateful to the heroic american who had their back in WW2 or the snobby french people whole ignore tourists who speak english
BUT
france is the western contradiction of the easts prejudiced views france maybe a white European ex-colonial western democracy but by no means are they right behind america or britain when it comes to doing of thinking
time and time again france has should the world not all western nations is the follower of america as its is widely perceived
and i dont think the french will be demanding that the chinese govt suppress the demonstrations we have heard of in china after all the chinese people are doing what tibetan monks and exiles were fighting for to do in tibet - freedom to protest (though i must say the attacks on han chinese people has taken a bit of credibility from the tibetan monks)

Officer of Engineers
20 Apr 08,, 02:21
You know there is one job I DON'T want this summer and that is the HCIC Security of the Olympics. Rumour is now that Western visitors are planning to protest during the Olympics and considering the reaction today, we can expect a hell of a lot of kung fu. That would be extremely distracting when you're on the look out for car bombs and AK-47s.

1947
20 Apr 08,, 02:24
western visitors may get a few beatings but the govt will have to protect the tourists to save face given the media and public storm over the tibetan protesters chinese nationalist attacks on western tourists will the the tsar bomba of the media,political and popular public storms the baclash will break the back of the most toughened commies

Officer of Engineers
20 Apr 08,, 02:38
My point was that fist fights would take away manpower needed to deter that car bomb.

ace16807
20 Apr 08,, 02:41
Is it just me, or is it strange how numbers are "hundreds" or "dozens" and not thousands... Everywhere else I hear of "thousands of protesters" at anti-Chinese protests.

1947
20 Apr 08,, 03:27
this is the first time ive ever heard of islamist terrorist threats in china its either the first time CCP reported the bust to distratc world attention from the anti chinese protests or may be a stage managed exercise again to distract people the second statement is just my wildest conspiracy theory
but islamist extremist bomb threats in china is a world first in that country

Officer of Engineers
20 Apr 08,, 03:30
It's been going on for more than 10 years. The Xinjiang Rebellion required the might of the PLA to put down. Six members of Al Qeida caught by the Americans in Afghanistan were Xinjiang rebels.

1947
20 Apr 08,, 03:32
well my apologies then for the second statement (that CCP stage managed the plot) its was a conspiracy lingering in the back of my mind just one of the wildest possibilities to the foiled terrorist plots

troung
20 Apr 08,, 06:55
Yeah way to prove Jack Cafferdy wrong - he limited his comment to the regime and left out the supporters, who are also thugs and goons and are allowed to "protest" by a regime which blocks other more legitimate protests. Thugs and goons.

Roosveltrepub
20 Apr 08,, 14:43
Did the Chinese police state let western media see what was actually happening unlike in Tibet?
When rallies happen in communist states they are rarely not state supported activities
yay for the French...at least one western democracy opposes communist police states still.

The Chinese were mostly only buying unlicensed copyright infringed copies of name brand french goods anyway. If they stopped buying American DVDs it would only mean LICENSED ones. GO on EbaY they even sell the knock offs to us.

The uhygurs are mostly moslem and an ethnic minority in western china with no self determination ruled by a communist police state. because some have joined extremist groups does not de-legitmize the plight of an entire people.

i don't under stand the problem people have with what was said by jack Cafferty. in the US we have thought communist regimes were thugs and goons since Stalin in the 50s right? I think those ok with the chinese police state are really ok with the $ to be made there and they were never concerned about freedom only the spread of market capitalism. The Chinese were brilliant in adopting large scale no regulation market capitalism thereby co-opting so many Americans who place capitalism and profit motive above a belief in democracy and freedom.
We really need to get out of bed with tyranny if we support freedom in the US

Triple C
20 Apr 08,, 18:51
I would like to remind any citizen of China viewing this thread that France, in a gesture of good will towards your country, painted the Eiffel tower red at the year of the dragon past. They also querrelled with the Germans in the EU parliament to sell you arms. If they are against you, then who is your friend?

Xiaohaha
20 Apr 08,, 22:11
Yeah way to prove Jack Cafferdy wrong - he limited his comment to the regime and left out the supporters, who are also thugs and goons and are allowed to "protest" by a regime which blocks other more legitimate protests. Thugs and goons.



Sorry, was this sarcasm?

TopHatter
20 Apr 08,, 23:32
Sorry, was this sarcasm?

Just a thought, but I'd say he was being very serious.

I happen to agree 100% with him, but that's merely my opinion.

troung
21 Apr 08,, 09:09
Sorry, was this sarcasm?
The CCP and their supporters are goons, thugs and murderers.

I will repeat myself - The CCP and their supporters are goons, thugs and murderers.


I happen to agree 100% with him, but that's merely my opinion.
Good to be in with proper villains... :biggrin:

Oscar
21 Apr 08,, 11:18
The only people who can express their opinions freely and benefit from media coverage and internet access in China are the xenophobic morons.(against Japan, France, the US...)

Is there a Chinese who can explain me why?:)

Thanks

cesm
21 Apr 08,, 18:38
Some placards went further, depicting Nazi swastikas on the French flag.
Today I saw a french "customized" flag.
Not only with stawiskas, but also a few words :
"Jeanne d'Arc = prostitute"
"Napoleon = pervert"
"FRANCE = NAZI"
"FREE CORSICA !!!"

Les enfoirés. (The guys who made this customization, not all the Chinese.)

PS: for Corsica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsica) I agree ! But the majority of the Corsican people don't ! Nationalists / separatists / autonomists or whatever you want didn't win any regional election. (But they killed the highest state-representative in Corsica.)

gunnut
21 Apr 08,, 18:50
The CCP and their supporters are goons, thugs and murderers.

I agree, judging by most of the recent flood of Chinese posters.

Ray
21 Apr 08,, 19:20
Sorry, was this sarcasm?

I think China is indulging in too much of brouhaha over this!

By doing so, what others did not know about, now know!!

So, the joke is on China now.

troung
21 Apr 08,, 19:38
Today I saw a french "customized" flag. Not only with stawiskas, but also a few words : "Jeanne d'Arc = prostitute" "Napoleon = pervert"
"FRANCE = NAZI" "FREE CORSICA !!!"

Proves how idiotic the people insulting France this time are. I'm sure many nationalistic Frenchmen will agree with Jeanne d'Arc being called a woman of loose morals despite her role in the unification of France. That will show the French not to allow protests on their soil.

Ass clowns - les enfoires works as well.


I agree, judging by most of the recent flood of Chinese posters.
Dude this is Ron Paul bad.

Officer of Engineers
21 Apr 08,, 19:57
Ron Paul should have it so good.

gunnut
21 Apr 08,, 21:49
Dude this is Ron Paul bad.

Is Ron Paul an adjective now?

The flood of Chinese posters on the World Affairs Board was Ron Paulian in magnitude.

cesm
21 Apr 08,, 21:53
I'm sure many nationalistic Frenchmen will agree with Jeanne d'Arc being called a woman of loose morals despite her role in the unification of France.
Sure, they will LOVE it. :rolleyes:
If these little (government-approved ?) signs of friendship last too long...
Maybe shall we wait a few years before seeing again a red Eiffel tower.

Tronic
21 Apr 08,, 21:54
PS: for Corsica (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corsica) I agree ! But the majority of the Corsican people don't ! Nationalists / separatists / autonomists or whatever you want didn't win any regional election. (But they killed the highest state-representative in Corsica.)

Very true. That is one thing the Chinese fail to understand; that the people in these countries, seperatists or not, actually have a voice. In Tibet, they don't.

Officer of Engineers
21 Apr 08,, 22:33
Very true. That is one thing the Chinese fail to understand; that the people in these countries, seperatists or not, actually have a voice. In Tibet, they don't.Well, they do. They just don't have lawyers.

Tronic
21 Apr 08,, 23:18
Well alright let me rephrase that sir, they have a voice, they just aren't allowed to use it.

Officer of Engineers
22 Apr 08,, 01:40
Or rather they don't know how to use it. The individual Tibetan has far more clout than the average Han. The number of posters here touting how good the Tibetans have it is testament to that.

The problem is that the majority of Tibetans are nowhere near the centres where that clout could benefit them. They are in their little village. Yes, you may get 1st seat at Beijing University with far lower grades ... but you still have to study and go to Beijing 1st. If you're stuck in your village, you're SOL.

The other major problem is that because that very few Chinese citizens who are knowledgeable enough to challenge the municipal governments are nowhere near the Tibetans. Even if the Tibetans want to sue, they don't know how and that opens up to corruption and abuse since they know the Tibetans won't take them to court over it.

1947
22 Apr 08,, 05:36
the chinese govt is gonna let the fires burn for a few days and once they feel they have sent the message across central asia-eastern europe to france and hopefully the world the baton will come out and the anti-French sites will come down all it takes is for the french govt to get the courage and stand up to these empty nationalistic rhetoric

Officer of Engineers
22 Apr 08,, 05:44
It's already being put out. Police are already dispersing the crowds and French Warships are already in China for a visit and no protests are even allow near them.

1947
22 Apr 08,, 05:52
It's already being put out. Police are already dispersing the crowds and French Warships are already in China for a visit and no protests are even allow near them.

well they'd have to they still do rely on foreign nations for economic growth and defense material

Officer of Engineers
22 Apr 08,, 06:11
What defence material? China is still under arms embargo from the West.

1947
22 Apr 08,, 06:17
What defence material? China is still under arms embargo from the West.

china still buys arms from France israel germany
annoying them is not in china's best interest

1947
22 Apr 08,, 06:17
What defence material? China is still under arms embargo from the West.

china is under no official arms embargo

Officer of Engineers
22 Apr 08,, 06:18
HORSE PUCKEY!!!

European Union arms embargo on the People's Republic of China - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_arms_embargo_on_the_People's_Republ ic_of_China)

1947
22 Apr 08,, 06:22
SIPRI - Publications China's Arms Acquisitions from Abroad: A Quest for 'Superb and Secret Weapons'<br /><i>by Bates Gill and Taeho Kim</i><br />Research Report No. 11<br><font size="-2">ISBN 0-19-829195-7 (hardback) 0-19-829196-5 (paperback)</font> (http://books.sipri.org/product_info?c_product_id=82)

Officer of Engineers
22 Apr 08,, 06:26
And I read thing years ago. Find me ONE sale since Tianamen Square. All of China's current weapons stock comes from Russia, not France, not Germany, and not one of the EU.

If you can't read, the EMBARGO remains in place.

1947
22 Apr 08,, 06:33
http://www.ploughshares.ca/libraries/monitor/mond07b.pdf

Officer of Engineers
22 Apr 08,, 06:38
Have you even read the Arms Embargo?

1) All contracts before 1989 was to be honoured
2) Dual Use technology can be transferred provided that the Originating Nation does not install the system themselves.
3) Search&Rescue systems are to be exempt

I doubt that you even read that 1st piece you've shown me. It goes into exacting details on how the contracts before 1989, delivered in the 1990s was to be honoured.

And it ended in 1995 and the Embargo remains in place.

1947
22 Apr 08,, 06:41
my bad the french exports were to mynmar not china

1947
22 Apr 08,, 06:48
Have you even read the Arms Embargo?

1) All contracts before 1989 was to be honoured
2) Dual Use technology can be transferred provided that the Originating Nation does not install the system themselves.
3) Search&Rescue systems are to be exempt

I doubt that you even read that 1st piece you've shown me. It goes into exacting details on how the contracts before 1989, delivered in the 1990s was to be honoured.

And it ended in 1995 and the Embargo remains in place.

i always thought PLA got its equipment from the western world due to its inventory and recently from isreal

Officer of Engineers
22 Apr 08,, 06:53
Are we talking the same PLA? The one with the MiGs and T-55s and D-120s? The Israelis helped big time with the J-10, ie the LAVI and even then, Russian design houses had to modifed the Israeli bird to fit their engines.

Two other Israeli contracts that went through that I am aware of - upgrading of the T-55 main gun and the A6 (modified MiG-19) avionic suits.

One big cancellation forced on by the Americans was the PHALCON AWACS.

I think there was one more but I can't remember.

However, most of China's weapons today are modified versions of Soviet bloc systems. They fly the Su-27/33.

1947
22 Apr 08,, 06:59
Are we talking the same PLA? The one with the MiGs and T-55s and D-120s? The Israelis helped big time with the J-10, ie the LAVI and even then, Russian design houses had to modifed the Israeli bird to fit their engines.

Two other Israeli contracts that went through that I am aware of - upgrading of the T-55 main gun and the A6 (modified MiG-19) avionic suits.

One big cancellation forced on by the Americans was the PHALCON AWACS.

I think there was one more but I can't remember.

However, most of China's weapons today are modified versions of Soviet bloc systems. They fly the Su-27/33.

nah i used to go through their inventory and find US aircraft as well (which i guess was around the 70's after the sino-soviet split in) i had no idea an official embargo had been put in place given the fact that US planes were part of their inventory
i always thought they were importing subs from germany and france which i now believe on india and other south eastern nations were purchasing

Officer of Engineers
22 Apr 08,, 07:02
Are you talking about the Republic of China (aka Taiwan)? The RoCAF is armed with American systems, including the F-16. The People's Republic of China (aka the Mainland) is armed with Soviet bloc systems.

The Harrier was offered in the late 70s/early 80s but no contract was signed. The British did recently sent rebuilt Rolls Royce engines to power the an indigenous attack plane.

1947
22 Apr 08,, 07:12
Are you talking about the Republic of China (aka Taiwan)? The RoCAF is armed with American systems, including the F-16. The People's Republic of China (aka the Mainland) is armed with Soviet bloc systems.

The Harrier was offered in the late 70s/early 80s but no contract was signed. The British did recently sent rebuilt Rolls Royce engines to power the an indigenous attack plane.

oh dear me
all this time i was looking at republic of china air force and didnt realise it was taiwanese cause when i was going through the F16 F18's the republic of china came up as being part of their operators

1947
22 Apr 08,, 07:13
though i still dont get how the PLAAF got their hands on Sikorsky S-70 Black Hawk says it has 24 of them in their air force

Officer of Engineers
22 Apr 08,, 07:21
oh dear me
all this time i was looking at republic of china air force and didnt realise it was taiwanese cause when i was going through the F16 F18's the republic of china came up as being part of their operatorsThere are no F-18s in the RoCAF inventory. There is an Indigenous Defence Fighter that looks like the F-18 but with a lot shorter legs.


though i still dont get how the PLAAF got their hands on Sikorsky S-70 Black Hawk says it has 24 of them in their air forceThey were bought in the 1980s before the 1989 Tienamen Square Incident and the subsequent embargo.