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Adux
18 Apr 08,, 12:02
UK is sitting on a racial tinder box, say most Britons


London: Britain is sitting on a racial tinder box, according to a BBC poll that reveals that most Britons believe that race relations are so poor that they are likely to spill into violence any moment.
Almost two-thirds of people in Britain fear the impact of poor race relations, and most believe that the country has too many immigrants.

Half of those polled wanted foreigners to be encouraged to leave the country. The poll also revealed that the proportion of people describing themselves as "racially prejudiced" was down to 20 per cent, compared with 24 per cent in 2005.


Britain's last serious race riots occurred in Oldham and Burnley in north England in 2001, when violent clashes erupted between white and Asian youths. Since then there has been an uneasy calm in several inner city areas across England.

Describing the findings as 'alarming', Equality and Human Rights Commission head Trevor Phillips told BBC News: "What worries me is if that friction starts to catch fire - if people do genuinely believe it's going to catch fire then we're in trouble.


"This finding may reflect not what is happening today but the story that's been told of the last 40 years - that if you get people of different kinds together then eventually there's going to be trouble."

The survey was commissioned to mark the 40th anniversary of Enoch Powell's infamous "rivers of blood" speech, in which he described the indigenous population's "sense of alarm and resentment" over immigration.


Copyright 2008 PTI. All rights reserved.



UK is sitting on a racial tinder box, say most Britons - National News – News – MSN India - News (http://news.in.msn.com/national/article.aspx?cp-documentid=1346609)

ameer
18 Apr 08,, 12:56
Natives unhappy with immigrants? That's unheard of!

But seriously, at least the percentage of prejudiced people went down.

dave lukins
18 Apr 08,, 13:07
Natives unhappy with immigrants? That's unheard of!

But seriously, at least the percentage of REPORTED prejudiced people went down.

A slight amendment Ameer;)

ameer
18 Apr 08,, 13:08
A slight amendment Ameer;)

As a Britisher (like a teacher of mine used to say), what do you think about this?

dave lukins
18 Apr 08,, 13:29
As a Britisher (like a teacher of mine used to say), what do you think about this?

Yes I think over the last few years there is a lot more feeling of the "foreigner" taking over. There has always been racial tension in the larger cities and towns, and as more and more immigrants come in the "Brits" feel threatened. They see their jobs threatened because immigrants will work for far less and will work longer for less, therefore owners of businesses are more likely to employ them before the "locals" The influx of criminal gangs from overseas is another huge problem..however the Home Secretary has refused to believe this, even though the Chief Constables has all reported huge crime figures committed by overseas gangs. The burden on the Health System, Schools and Courts are another headache for Government. So, when the "Brits" see all this going on around them they get uptight to say the least. It was reported that even the immigrants want a reduction in immigrants:)

Ray
18 Apr 08,, 14:02
The British, as one perceives from posters here as also from the media, are indeed a beleaguered people, who have their back against the wall and are in the same spot as Indians with the vote bank politics.

At least, in India, one can speak up about it.

The British appear to be very chary and uncomfortable to air their genuine views and instead kneel at the altar of PC and high thinking, lest the British image takes a toss!!

Just my view and I maybe totally ill informed!

glyn
18 Apr 08,, 14:17
[QUOTE=Ray;484308]The British, as one perceives from posters here as also from the media, are indeed a beleaguered people, who have their back against the wall and are in the same spot as Indians with the vote bank politics.

At least, in India, one can speak up about it.

The British appear to be very chary and uncomfortable to air their genuine views and instead kneel at the altar of PC and high thinking, lest the British image takes a toss!!

What British image is that then? The reason people tend not to speak out about the influx of immigrants too openly is the knowledge that they would be labelled as racist by the PC brigade and the Race Relations Agency (which needs to keep finding examples or their generous government funding might dry up). Once that happens there is little hope for them to be listened to. Even among my friends in public I notice they drop their voices if the topic of immigration comes up. The UK the land of free speech? Not any more.

Samudra
18 Apr 08,, 15:56
Glyn,

In India we'd be labeled anti-secular, religious fundamentalists. :)

BTW I'm still trying to find an Englishman in London and it's been more than a year since I came here to study. Maybe I should look somewhere in Downing street or keep a tab on Westminster to see if anyone passes by. :rolleyes: .I know you - but you're not really an Englishman or so I hear. ;)

dave lukins
18 Apr 08,, 16:03
Nip into the duty free bars in Waste minster Palace, thats where you'll find 'em ..propping up the bar after the free lunch with their mates. Oh! just remembered, it's POETS day so you're too late

Exarecr
18 Apr 08,, 17:07
Yes I think over the last few years there is a lot more feeling of the "foreigner" taking over. There has always been racial tension in the larger cities and towns, and as more and more immigrants come in the "Brits" feel threatened. They see their jobs threatened because immigrants will work for far less and will work longer for less, therefore owners of businesses are more likely to employ them before the "locals" The influx of criminal gangs from overseas is another huge problem..however the Home Secretary has refused to believe this, even though the Chief Constables has all reported huge crime figures committed by overseas gangs. The burden on the Health System, Schools and Courts are another headache for Government. So, when the "Brits" see all this going on around them they get uptight to say the least. It was reported that even the immigrants want a reduction in immigrants:)
Amen Mr.Lukins. In the 30 odd years since Trudeau(scum of the Earth)turned Canada into a third world farce ,crime rates have risen in direct proportion to the influx of immigrants to the affected area's. In other words, we now have Asian, Jamaican, Somali, Indian, and 30 other "ethnic gangs" where once there was but social peace and quiet. When I lived in Toronto during the mentioned scumbags days in power in the 70.s there were no Irish or English or German or Scottish or Dutch or french or any gangs having gun fights on yonge street over turf or drugs. So tell me. Still think multiculturalism is a good thing?

glyn
18 Apr 08,, 18:16
[QUOTE=Samudra;484387]Glyn,

In India we'd be labeled anti-secular, religious fundamentalists. :)

BTW I'm still trying to find an Englishman in London and it's been more than a year since I came here to study.

Keep looking! Your search may yet be crowned with success.:) It seemed to me on my recent visit to the capital that about half the people I saw were of 'European' appearance, with about 20% Asian, 15% or thereabouts Afro-Caribbean and around 10% Oriental. I expect all races were there in number. Obviously this isn't a scientific survey, just my impression. Many languages were heard. Accents too. You wouldn't believe how many Aussies and Kiwis I heard!:eek:

Maybe I should look somewhere in Downing street or keep a tab on Westminster to see if anyone passes by. :rolleyes: .

I wouldn't recommend searching in Downing Street as they're all Jockalese there!
I know you - but you're not really an Englishman or so I hear. ;)

Absolutely right!

Ray
18 Apr 08,, 18:31
[QUOTE=Ray;484308]The British, as one perceives from posters here as also from the media, are indeed a beleaguered people, who have their back against the wall and are in the same spot as Indians with the vote bank politics.

At least, in India, one can speak up about it.

The British appear to be very chary and uncomfortable to air their genuine views and instead kneel at the altar of PC and high thinking, lest the British image takes a toss!!

What British image is that then? The reason people tend not to speak out about the influx of immigrants too openly is the knowledge that they would be labelled as racist by the PC brigade and the Race Relations Agency (which needs to keep finding examples or their generous government funding might dry up). Once that happens there is little hope for them to be listened to. Even among my friends in public I notice they drop their voices if the topic of immigration comes up. The UK the land of free speech? Not any more.

That is just the point.

Yes indeed the slur of being called a racist would be what prevents pragmatism.

Immigration is not the real problem, it is to make those new British citizens of immigrant extraction, whatever be their colour or race, realise that they are British and be proud to be British.

The British themselves will have to rediscover their identity and not be clones of the cousins and make all feel proud to identify themselves to be British.

Like the time of the British Raj where many became WOGs voluntarily! :))

It should not be the loose identity that is current, which almost appears a free for all thing.

I know I have not been able to explain this well, but it should be like what immigrants to the US become including those who have just touched the soil of the US - very patriotic and vociferously defending the US, right or wrong. I have met many such Indian origin Americans, who out American Americans! If that can happen in the US, it surely can happen in the UK and the UK has to rediscover its identity and make it attractive to be known as British.

I honestly don't know how that can be done.

antimony
18 Apr 08,, 18:35
[QUOTE=glyn;484317]

That is just the point.

Yes indeed the slur of being called a racist would be what prevents pragmatism.

Immigration is not the real problem, it is to make those new British citizens of immigrant extraction, whatever be their colour or race, realise that they are British and be proud to be British.

The British themselves will have to rediscover their indentity and not be clones of the cousins and make all feel proud to identify themselves to be British.

It should not be the loose identity that is current, which almost appears a free for all thing.

I know I have not been able to explain this well, but it should be like what immigrants to the US become including those who have just touched the soil of the US - very patriotic and vociferously defending the US citizens. I have met many such Indian origin Americans, who out American Americans! If that can happen in the US, it surely can happen in the UK and the UK has to rediscover its identity and make it attractive to be known as British.

I honestly don't know how that can be done.

The white brits may appear to speak in hushed voices in public, but that does not seem to prevent them from shouting "p*ki" in the streets at the brown guys.

Anyway, I remember reading about a survey which showed that more new immigrants considering themselves to be "British" while the more of the natives considered themselves English/ Welsh/ Scottish.

Not sure what to make of that

antimony
18 Apr 08,, 18:37
[QUOTE=glyn;484317]

That is just the point.

Yes indeed the slur of being called a racist would be what prevents pragmatism.

Immigration is not the real problem, it is to make those new British citizens of immigrant extraction, whatever be their colour or race, realise that they are British and be proud to be British.

The British themselves will have to rediscover their indentity and not be clones of the cousins and make all feel proud to identify themselves to be British.

It should not be the loose identity that is current, which almost appears a free for all thing.

I know I have not been able to explain this well, but it should be like what immigrants to the US become including those who have just touched the soil of the US - very patriotic and vociferously defending the US citizens. I have met many such Indian origin Americans, who out American Americans! If that can happen in the US, it surely can happen in the UK and the UK has to rediscover its identity and make it attractive to be known as British.

I honestly don't know how that can be done.

The white brits may appear to speak in hushed voices in public, but that does not seem to prevent them from shouting "p*ki" in the streets at the brown guys.

Anyway, I remember reading about a survey which showed that more new immigrants considering themselves to be "British" while the more of the natives considered themselves English/ Welsh/ Scottish.

Not sure what to make of that...

Adux
18 Apr 08,, 18:40
Antimony,

What about 'brown' people calling them 'goras' in a very demeaning way.

dave lukins
18 Apr 08,, 20:24
The white brits may appear to speak in hushed voices in public, but that does not seem to prevent them from shouting "p*ki" in the streets at the brown guys.

Yes, the "hero" on the street corner, in a small gang of 50, in the dark, will call names, and worse, to whoever walks past. During the daylight hours on their own out of their Safety Zones...NADA..Zilch.:(

antimony
18 Apr 08,, 20:56
Yes, the "hero" on the street corner, in a small gang of 50, in the dark, will call names, and worse, to whoever walks past. During the daylight hours on their own out of their Safety Zones...NADA..Zilch.:(

I think these are the "brave ones" who once were caught beating up a man on the street, which they captured on their mobile phones. I have ome across these animals when I was in West Yorkshire. I found that if you reply in kind, they would slink back to the shadows they emerge from.


Antimony,

What about 'brown' people calling them 'goras' in a very demeaning way.

Good point, except that I have rarely found the reference being done in a demeaning manner (how do you demean a group visibly better off than you?). I have found it akin to the way someone might refer to me as a Bong and to you as a Mallu or to Tronic as a Surd - none of them demeaning by themselves

ameer
19 Apr 08,, 06:19
Amen Mr.Lukins. In the 30 odd years since Trudeau(scum of the Earth)turned Canada into a third world farce ,crime rates have risen in direct proportion to the influx of immigrants to the affected area's. In other words, we now have Asian, Jamaican, Somali, Indian, and 30 other "ethnic gangs" where once there was but social peace and quiet. When I lived in Toronto during the mentioned scumbags days in power in the 70.s there were no Irish or English or German or Scottish or Dutch or french or any gangs having gun fights on yonge street over turf or drugs. So tell me. Still think multiculturalism is a good thing?

Name one historical period with large influx of immigrants into a country where there wasn't an issue with crime?

Ray
19 Apr 08,, 06:25
[QUOTE=antimony;484549]

Yes, the "hero" on the street corner, in a small gang of 50, in the dark, will call names, and worse, to whoever walks past. During the daylight hours on their own out of their Safety Zones...NADA..Zilch.:(

Dave, that quote is not mine.

Lighten the word Ray. It appears as if that was my post you were replying!!

Ray
19 Apr 08,, 06:29
Good point, except that I have rarely found the reference being done in a demeaning manner (how do you demean a group visibly better off than you?). I have found it akin to the way someone might refer to me as a Bong and to you as a Mallu or to Tronic as a Surd - none of them demeaning by themselves

Gora is not a demeaning word.

Firangee has a bit of a nasty touch. It depends on the tone.

In fact, the Hindi and English mix style of speaking of today, the word ''firang'' is almost honorific!!

ameer
19 Apr 08,, 06:54
Yeah, gora just means white person, it's not a slur.

dave lukins
19 Apr 08,, 11:44
[QUOTE=dave lukins;484597]

Dave, that quote is not mine.

Lighten the word Ray. It appears as if that was my post you were replying!!

My sincere Apologies Brigadier it was in reply to Antimony and not your good self

Likewise to Soovojit

Adux
19 Apr 08,, 14:28
Good point, except that I have rarely found the reference being done in a demeaning manner (how do you demean a group visibly better off than you?). I have found it akin to the way someone might refer to me as a Bong and to you as a Mallu or to Tronic as a Surd - none of them demeaning by themselves

I was in the UK for sometime, Glasgow to be precise. Loved the place and Loved the people. I found Indians and Pakistani's to be more racist than Whites.

The first thing you will hear talk about Gora's is who easy their woman are, they have no culture, no character so and so forth. May I say..utter filth. Coming from a nation which made the Kamasutra and another one which allows 4 wives, For all you know legalized orgy. Reminds me of the Bollywood movie Swades.

And, Yes. I love Blonde Women, absolutely have no real attraction for Indian women. Why, because for most of 'em my features dont appeal to them, I have no straight nose, nor am 'fair n lovely' nor yada yada. While its exactly the opposite in the case of non-Indian women. They are not racist to a large extent. Here when we get someone married, the first thing we look is wether the girl or boy is fair, cuz we want fair grandkids. And I cant stand their talks against North East Indians.. And the list goes on. All this and we have the audacity to call Brits or someone else racist? What gives us the right?

I even know Pakistani who use thier colour to intimediate the Police. UK has turned into some ***** nation. Sad. Really.

I was called **** once, and I didnt know it was general term, Glasgow is notorious for its drunken idiots, what other idiot didnt know, I was a built red-blooded beer guzzling idiot too. He had my elbow on his face. They have as many racist as we have north Indians calling south Indians 'kaloos' or Madrasi's.

Adux
19 Apr 08,, 14:30
Yeah, gora just means white person, it's not a slur.

Yeah, P a k i means pure...doesnt it.

ameer
19 Apr 08,, 14:40
Yeah, P a k i means pure...doesnt it.

I'm willing to wager most white British people don't know that's what it means.

glyn
19 Apr 08,, 15:08
I'm willing to wager most white British people don't know that's what it means.

And I'll wager that most Britons (white or not) don't much care either. It's the name of a country. Why should we be exercised as to its meaning? How many Pakistanis know or care that Britain was called Prettania by the first Greek visitor to these shores, or the Romans changed that to Brittania? It's simply not important to most people. I understand you are of Pakistani origin and I suspect you are carrying a big chip on your shoulder. I can see no other reason for your statement where you had to bring colour into the open.

Vinod2070
19 Apr 08,, 16:18
I'm willing to wager most white British people don't know that's what it means.

Are you a Pakistani?

Living in the US?

Ray
19 Apr 08,, 16:40
I was in the UK for sometime, Glasgow to be precise. Loved the place and Loved the people. I found Indians and Pakistani's to be more racist than Whites.

The first thing you will hear talk about Gora's is who easy their woman are, they have no culture, no character so and so forth. May I say..utter filth. Coming from a nation which made the Kamasutra and another one which allows 4 wives, For all you know legalized orgy. Reminds me of the Bollywood movie Swades.

And, Yes. I love Blonde Women, absolutely have no real attraction for Indian women. Why, because for most of 'em my features dont appeal to them, I have no straight nose, nor am 'fair n lovely' nor yada yada. While its exactly the opposite in the case of non-Indian women. They are not racist to a large extent. Here when we get someone married, the first thing we look is wether the girl or boy is fair, cuz we want fair grandkids. And I cant stand their talks against North East Indians.. And the list goes on. All this and we have the audacity to call Brits or someone else racist? What gives us the right?

I even know Pakistani who use thier colour to intimediate the Police. UK has turned into some ***** nation. Sad. Really.

I was called **** once, and I didnt know it was general term, Glasgow is notorious for its drunken idiots, what other idiot didnt know, I was a built red-blooded beer guzzling idiot too. He had my elbow on his face. They have as many racist as we have north Indians calling south Indians 'kaloos' or Madrasi's.

I think that is over generalised.

No one today thinks of women are ''easy'' etc since they are now easy the world over (if there is anything like a woman being ''easy''), even though I feel that is a very uncharitable and ungentlemanly way to speak of women.

The same was felt by Indian about the Anglo Indians in the old days because they spoke to all without hesitation or false and contrived coyness. Let me assure you that there could be no better, generous and loving human souls than the Anglo Indians. India is poorer now that they have gone their way to UK, Australia, Canada and the US.

Adux, with all due regards to you, you are in a different timewrap since India has moved on and so have Indians. Today, in most parts of the country, there is no arranged marriages as the only norm to tying the knot and yes, even in the villages!! It is love at first sight, no matter how many sights have been stolen before the love blossomed. And yes, there are arranged marriages too!

I think more than black, white or pink or the different shades of the rainbow, what is really looked at in an arranged marriage is the social and economic status of the family and whether they would accept the girl in the family and not harass her. In fact, even in arranged marriages, it is not uncommon for a girl to reject the prospective groom - an act unthinkable in the old times!!

One of the reason why this is so, is because more and more girls are getting educated and they go out to work and hence are emancipated and not ready to follow the old ways. Parents too are busy and so it is a mutual advantage. Therefore, love marriages are no longer something that is extraordinary. Neither is the rejection of the groom to be by the girl in arranged marriages and extraordinary thing.

No one calls South Indians ''kalloos'' either in North India, since the South Indians are one too many in the high offices in Delhi and as clerks too and so they are practically the population or nearabouts and so they don't stick out for people to take notice of them as different! Because there are so many jobs all around India people are moving out of their home states and are facing reality. This intermixing of subnational ethnicity is dissolve all these age old infirmities. It is also leading to inter community and inter religion marriages and breaking more frontiers.

India is on the move in all ways.

Black is beautiful, even in India. What matters is the texture of the skin. Have you seen the ramp shows and the number of swarthy women there appearing divinely smashing? What about the swarthy actresses? Rekha, Nandita Das, Waheda Rehman, Smita Patil, Shabhana Azmi, Shilpa Shetty et al.

Therefore, be more observant and see the change.

If you do not try to see the transmogrification of India, these one or two stereotypes will rise in prominence in your mind to suggest that the old order has not changed.

Ray
19 Apr 08,, 16:42
I'm willing to wager most white British people don't know that's what it means.

Don't wager it on this board at least.

These whites (hope that it not a derogatory term in today's PC world) here can teach you and me a few home truths too!! ;) :tongue: :)) :))

Don't ask me any more for that would be talking out of school!!

Ray
19 Apr 08,, 16:56
Antimony,

The new style of calling Bengalis as Bongs is something I don't like.

In the US, they call "bhang" as Bong!! :))

bolo121
19 Apr 08,, 17:14
Well I was in the UK for 2 years and never had much in the way of problems with the white majority. The racist experience I had was mostly from Chinese people I encountered there and a few really nasty turkish guys (super islamic).

Parihaka
19 Apr 08,, 20:46
Accents too. You wouldn't believe how many Aussies and Kiwis I heard!:eek:


Somebody has to keep the country running but fear naught! Your government is about to curtail the number of kiwi's and our benighted cousins from across the ditch allowed in to blighty severely.

ofelas
20 Apr 08,, 19:34
Amen Mr.Lukins. In the 30 odd years since Trudeau(scum of the Earth)turned Canada into a third world farce ,crime rates have risen in direct proportion to the influx of immigrants to the affected area's. In other words, we now have Asian, Jamaican, Somali, Indian, and 30 other "ethnic gangs" where once there was but social peace and quiet. When I lived in Toronto during the mentioned scumbags days in power in the 70.s there were no Irish or English or German or Scottish or Dutch or french or any gangs having gun fights on yonge street over turf or drugs. So tell me. Still think multiculturalism is a good thing?

Ever heard of the various biker gangs? Or the Irish mob in Montreal? How about the Rizzutos et al? Still don't remember any of the above having street gun fights over drugs & turf since the late '40s? Nothing but peace & quiet, huh? :rolleyes:

Cactus
20 Apr 08,, 20:24
The new style of calling Bengalis as Bongs is something I don't like.

In the US, they call "bhang" as Bong!! :))


Sir,

In the US a Bong would be a hookah generally, or ganja in context of the speaker. Opiates aren't nearly as rampant in the US, though bhang does fit with Bong poetically. ;)

Sometime back I wanted an Urdu term translated, so I approached a fellow-student whose last name suggested Punjabi/UP origin. He couldn't translate it, and offered as an explanation, "Naww man, I am a Bong. I don't speak academic Urdu." It was the first time I had heard that term; needless to say I had to ask for an explanation. :)

Ray
22 Apr 08,, 15:44
I had heard a lot from Indians, but I did ask a genuine Briton for his comment since after all, Indians comments are not the only one that is material.

And all he said is that the thread has been hijacked.

True, I has shied away for reasons of my own, but then when I clicked to return here, I found that I was being mentioned and I wondered how I figure in to the racial issue! After all, I am a piebald due to uv rays of high altitude as one of the Chinese ''sexual beauty" (to use the Chinese phrase of WAB Chinese to describe ladies) goaded me to confess!!

I read more and I found that it was not the UK that was sitting on a tinderbox, but good old me.

Right, am I too old to ogle at ladies?

Well, it is right that I don't, since ogling is what a commoner would do! ;)

I merely appreciate. Age does not really extinguish the twinkle in anyone's eyes! ;) :))

See it in Clark Gable's eyes.

And so long as one remembers Nat King Cole's song - You will never grow old, while there's love in your heart........you can never grow old.

Actually, I am myself surprised as to why I don't feel old!! :eek::))

Now could a "Britisher" give me an insight as to why the UK is said to be sitting on a tinder box?

If they don't, then wipe your gloves, face each other and box on.