(CNN)Jack Cafferty on China

[Nauticus]

On April 9, 2008, Cafferty made a highly controversial remark about China on CNN: "They are basically the same bunch of goons and thugs as they were in the past 50 years."

YouTube - Jack Cafferty showing complete ignorance

[glyn]

Doesn't look like he was hired for his diplomacy skills.

[troung]

Jack called it like he sees it.

No controversy there.

[gunnut]

They are pretty much the same bunch of commies except they make money with capitalism now. I think he called it as he saw it.

[chankya]

Is it me or is there a new wave of Chinese posters here?

Are you guys expats or do you live in China? If you do live in China, can I ask what your opinion on media is? I mean, is free media required or is state controlled media good enough? And how controlled is your media?

[gunnut]

Is it me or is there a new wave of Chinese posters here?

I noticed that too.

I am against Tibet independence but not on the traditional ground of Chinese claim. I am against it because that will establish a religious theocracy which will plunge the people into economic despair.

Say what you want about China. It has brought progress to Tibet one way or another.

[chankya]

I noticed that too.

I am against Tibet independence but not on the traditional ground of Chinese claim. I am against it because that will establish a religious theocracy which will plunge the people into economic despair.

Say what you want about China. It has brought progress to Tibet one way or another.

And losing your freedom is the price you pay for economic development, is it? Would you like you land forcibly resettled just so you could buy that Sony camcorder you always wanted?

[cct94]

Is it me or is there a new wave of Chinese posters here?

Are you guys expats or do you live in China? If you do live in China, can I ask what your opinion on media is? I mean, is free media required or is state controlled media good enough? And how controlled is your media?

Hi there,

First time visitor, but I'll respond to this question. There's really many different "types" of media in China.

The official media, especially that close to Beijing, is very tightly controlled. CCTV, the People's Daily, and Xinhua are established as a way for the Party to speak to the people... and as such, just about anyone can write an article on their behalf on any issue... the type of artificial news they generate is really quite that predictable. It's probably most accurate to describe articles in the People's Daily and Xinhua as press releases.

Other public media further away from Beijing has significantly more freedom. In Guangdong especially, the Southern Metropolis Daily and related publications have often published somewhat controversial political statements... including those from Taiwanese moderates. Even in the aftermath of Tibet, that newsgroup published a call asking for deeper consideration of *why* there was so much unhappiness in Tibet, and also a call for greater press freedom so that the world would better believe China's point of view. Hunan TV is also seen as a network that pushes the boundary. But even this media is still officially controlled by Beijing censors, so there are lines they won't cross.

And then there are the Chinese-language sources that are independent of government control entirely. Hong Kong-based Phoenix TV, for example, is watched by hundreds of millions in China. It's independent of Party control entirely, although it still respects mainland Chinese sensitivities. (It will report in detail on what's going on in Taiwan without any censorship, but it only refers to the Taiwanese president as "leader".)

You were mostly curious about public reaction, though. China is 1.3 billion people, so there's not a "single" reaction. Many people still get their news exclusively from state media, but even then they will often dig through trying to "imagine" the other side of the story.

Many, probably 100 million+, get their news almost exclusively online and from overseas media, and hate the Chinese state media with a passion. For years, the standard online retort has been... "don't be so CCTV" (whenever someone is perceived as being stupid/biased). Overseas media is *widely* available. NY Times and CNN websites are very, very rarely blocked. BBC used to be blocked, but that's come down as well. During the torch run in San Francisco yesterday, thousands (hundreds of thousands?) were watching the online newsfeed from CNN and other American news stations.

So... while it's fair to say that many Chinese might not have a full picture of what's happening, those most likely to be politically active (young college graduates) have almost unimpeded access to western media. And they fully take advantage of it.

Those who continue to think of China as a totalitarian nation where the Chinese people are told what to think will simply not understand China.

By way of personal introduction, I'm a Chinese national, who has lived, studied, and worked in the United States for many years. I too was on the streets of San Francisco yesterday.

[cct94]

And losing your freedom is the price you pay for economic development, is it? Would you like you land forcibly resettled just so you could buy that Sony camcorder you always wanted?

As someone who grew up in China in the '70s and '80s, and who was resettled from my grandfather's home along the way... I have strong opinions on this.

It's not about having a Sony camcorder. It's about having indoor plumbing, an air conditioner, and more than one change of clothes. I grew up without all of those things. Our most prized asset was a 9" black/white TV. We made telephone calls by going down to the store on the corner, and we made international phone calls at the post office. The thought of flying on a plane was foreign to me. I remember distinctly my first taste of orange juice and coca-cola; both came after I was into my teenage years.

You're Indian, correct Chakya? Were you raised in India, or in San Jose? I don't mean to preach, but I suspect many in developed nations don't understand what it is to live in a developing country. Look around San Jose today, and you'll see illegal Mexican immigrants living without a trace of human dignity or political/legal rights... why? Just so that they can buy a Sony Camcorder.

Frankly, the vast majority of Chinese understand the need for massive resettlement. My home town was torn down in huge swathes during the '90s; I'm talking a 5 block by 5 block area would be torn down... and rebuilt from the ground up with modern streets, power cabling, sewage lines, and new apartment buildings. We all understand a price is paid for this to happen; although 95% of the people on that piece of land appreciated their new apartments (with indoor plumbing!), a small minority might suffer. Frankly, that's a price the Chinese people believe should be paid.

I don't know what solutions you have for eliminating slums in India, or whether that's an issue that's even close to your heart... but for the Chinese, we do feel a certain sense of urgency. We want our country to become developed; we want our children to fly on planes, use computers, vacation in the Bahamas... and yes, use Sony camcorders.

[gunnut]

And losing your freedom is the price you pay for economic development, is it? Would you like you land forcibly resettled just so you could buy that Sony camcorder you always wanted?

How free is a religious theocracy?

[Officer of Engineers]

And losing your freedom is the price you pay for economic development, is it? Would you like you land forcibly resettled just so you could buy that Sony camcorder you always wanted?

Seriously. The Tibetans never had more freedom than they do now.

[ying]

Hi there,

First time visitor, but I'll respond to this question. There's really many different "types" of media in China.

The official media, especially that close to Beijing, is very tightly controlled. CCTV, the People's Daily, and Xinhua are established as a way for the Party to speak to the people... and as such, just about anyone can write an article on their behalf on any issue... the type of artificial news they generate is really quite that predictable. It's probably most accurate to describe articles in the People's Daily and Xinhua as press releases.

Other public media further away from Beijing has significantly more freedom. In Guangdong especially, the Southern Metropolis Daily and related publications have often published somewhat controversial political statements... including those from Taiwanese moderates. Even in the aftermath of Tibet, that newsgroup published a call asking for deeper consideration of *why* there was so much unhappiness in Tibet, and also a call for greater press freedom so that the world would better believe China's point of view. Hunan TV is also seen as a network that pushes the boundary. But even this media is still officially controlled by Beijing censors, so there are lines they won't cross.

And then there are the Chinese-language sources that are independent of government control entirely. Hong Kong-based Phoenix TV, for example, is watched by hundreds of millions in China. It's independent of Party control entirely, although it still respects mainland Chinese sensitivities. (It will report in detail on what's going on in Taiwan without any censorship, but it only refers to the Taiwanese president as "leader".)

You were mostly curious about public reaction, though. China is 1.3 billion people, so there's not a "single" reaction. Many people still get their news exclusively from state media, but even then they will often dig through trying to "imagine" the other side of the story.

Many, probably 100 million+, get their news almost exclusively online and from overseas media, and hate the Chinese state media with a passion. For years, the standard online retort has been... "don't be so CCTV" (whenever someone is perceived as being stupid/biased). Overseas media is *widely* available. NY Times and CNN websites are very, very rarely blocked. BBC used to be blocked, but that's come down as well. During the torch run in San Francisco yesterday, thousands (hundreds of thousands?) were watching the online newsfeed from CNN and other American news stations.

So... while it's fair to say that many Chinese might not have a full picture of what's happening, those most likely to be politically active (young college graduates) have almost unimpeded access to western media. And they fully take advantage of it.

Those who continue to think of China as a totalitarian nation where the Chinese people are told what to think will simply not understand China.

By way of personal introduction, I'm a Chinese national, who has lived, studied, and worked in the United States for many years. I too was on the streets of San Francisco yesterday.

I am living in Mainland. In addition to the ways of getting western news you listed above, the western TV programs are available for Chinese through satellite channels. I spent 1K RMB to install one satellite receiver.

[Hu Jintao]

You guys are all lucky. I grew up with a 4-transistor radio receiver used in our house for more than 10 years, I am still missing that beautiful sound. My parents can only afford me a new cloth each year, made by my mom by hand.

And we're the above average, you could call that rich at that time.

[ying]

Hi there,

Other public media further away from Beijing has significantly more freedom. In Guangdong especially, the Southern Metropolis Daily and related publications have often published somewhat controversial political statements... including those from Taiwanese moderates. Even in the aftermath of Tibet, that newsgroup published a call asking for deeper consideration of *why* there was so much unhappiness in Tibet, and also a call for greater press freedom so that the world would better believe China's point of view. Hunan TV is also seen as a network that pushes the boundary. But even this media is still officially controlled by Beijing censors, so there are lines they won't cross.

.

Actually, not only Sothern Metropolitan News raised the questions about the deeper reasons behind Tibet issue. Among those emotional posts in Chinese BBS, you may find many Chinese people are reconsidering what we have done to Tibet and which make the beautiful Himalayan highland so painful.

From Han-Chinese side, they cannot understand why Tibetan people choose to anti Han since Tibetan has more privileges than most ordinary Han-Chinese. Unlike their Han brother, Tibetan needn’t to pay any income tax and meantime enjoy the total free medical care provided by the Chinese government (sometimes, the PLA provides medical care to Tibetan in those remote areas.) Tibetan may have children as many as they like while Han-Chinese can have only one child. Tibetan may carry weapon, mainly knife, in the streets while Han-Chinese will be arrested by doing so. Tibetan has no manufacture industry and only has limited income from tour industry and agriculture but they own first-class roads/highway and splendid modern buildings which are constructed and sponsored by its Han brothers. Tibetan women had no chance to go to school before 1951 but many of them are sponsored by Chinese government to study in the universities in Lhasa and Beijing. Tibetan local governments are comprised of Tibetan and Han and the percentage of Tibetan is more than 50%. The statistics often been quoted by Han-Chinese: the population of Tibetan increased from 1.1 million to 2.8 million and the average life of Tibetan increased from 35.5 to 67. Han-Chinese can not understand why Tibetan is still unsatisfied by obtaining so many privileges and benefits. They believe Han has been doing enough to express their sincere intention to be the brothers of Tibetan.

From Tibetan side, actually I don’t know what they are really thinking. Tibetan may say that all unfair rules you Han should bear, like one child policy, has nothing to do with Tibetan. But what Tibetan will not deny is the economic benefits they are enjoying and the improvement on education and medical care. I have been to Tibet several times. What I may observe is that most Tibetan are satisfied with the current situation partially because of the economic benefits brought by Han and partially because of the nature of Tibetan culture. Tibetan is a peaceful nation and doesn’t care much about sovereignty. They'd rather to choose to focus on the spirit world of human being. (This is what I admire Tibetan and why I think Tibetan still deserves the highest respect thought they always surrender to other nations).

Anyway, what happened in Tibet should make every Chinese to reconsider our way to treat Tibet. I do believe the problems in Tibet are so serious that should be solved as soon as possible. But the first thing we should do is to find out what makes Tibetan painful. Chinese governance? Democracy? Freedom? Culture exchange with Han? Or Tibet lost itself in this modern world? especially when other parts of China have been capitalized day by day?

Another point is, if anyone wants to put his nose in Tibet related issues, he has to talk to China firstly. The relation between Han-Chinese and Tibet is so close and nobody may just turn blink to this relation which has more than hundreds of years history. Simply cutting down the relation between Tibet and China will not help to solve the problems Tibet facing. Being realistic and stopping using Tibet to play political games would be helpful, I wish.

[astralis]

They are pretty much the same bunch of commies except they make money with capitalism now. I think he called it as he saw it.

gunnut,

no, they're not. mao was willing to sacrifice millions to get what he wanted; deng was willing to sacrifice thousands; this current crop? they're paralyzed by indecision and half-afraid of their own people.