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  • German Nuking of New York

    I'm assuming that the Ho XVIII's engines will last throughout its flight, the German atomic bomb has been built, and the plane was completed.

    It's April 1945 and the Ho XVIII left Germany 20 hours ago. It approaches New York City, and is prepared to drop its payload. However, its payload is no ordinary payload: It is the German equivalent of the Manhattan project, and is truly Hitler's "Vengeance Weapon". Allied radars have not detected it throughout its flight due to the Ho XVIII's unique flying wing structure (I don't seem to remember details about how its wood structure would have allowed it to avoid radar spottage - Perhaps somebody else can elaborate on this).

    What do you'll think happens next? (Political, Military, and Economic Events). I created this thread to analyze the events that would have then conspired.

    Here's the Ho XVII:

    I have no idea what I'm doing. Honestly!

  • #2
    What if...
    Attached Files
    "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

    Comment


    • #3
      Don't forget
      I have no idea what I'm doing. Honestly!

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't see the point of the thread. It's just fantasy thinking.

        Germany would have never developed the nuclear bomb. Hitler belived it was "Jewish pseudoscience", and furthermore, that it would ignite all the hydrogen in the atmosphere, stripping the Earth of the atmosphere.

        It is generally agreed that a prototype Ju-390, in a test run, flew within 12 miles of New York and flew back to Europe.

        Instead of pouring tons of resources and men into wonder weapons, what if Germany had instead devoted it to conventional military equipment? They could have built thousands of fighter aircraft with the resources they used in the V1 and V2 programs.

        What if they had standardized transport vehicles, instead of the 600 varieties of requisitioned truck and car they used in Operation Barbarossa? Not to mention the 300 varieties of motorcycles. What if 80% of their transport in the same weren't horses? What if they had used four-engine bombers? What if they had thought to convert Soviet wide gauge rail to standard gauge?

        The Allies won the war with the tried and true weapons of the 1930s. The Germans to some degree lost it because they jerked off fantasizing about the impractical weapons of the 1950s.
        "Every man has his weakness. Mine was always just cigarettes."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ironduke View Post

          Germany would have never developed the nuclear bomb. Hitler belived it was "Jewish pseudoscience", and furthermore, that it would ignite all the hydrogen in the atmosphere, stripping the Earth of the atmosphere.
          I remember seeing something like that in a Nazi propaganda I watched for class.

          "Einstein, the relativist Jew and psuedo-scientist" was one of most hilarious and simutaneously spooky Nazi one-liner I have ever heard.
          Last edited by Triple C; 09 Apr 08,, 09:40.
          All those who are merciful with the cruel will come to be cruel to the merciful.
          -Talmud Kohelet Rabbah, 7:16.

          Comment


          • #6
            Shot to pieces. It would have never made it through the many radar stations nor constant air patrols along the islands, Britains coast, Canada's or the US coast line. Even our ASW defence patrols utilized planes that could have for all intensive purposes easily detected them and shot them down. You also seem to forget just how easily both Britian and the U.S. were decrypting Germany's many different military codes during the years 1943 onward. Hell we were already reading most of the "updated keys" long before the majority of her subs had recieved them at sea and not just Naval code either.

            From articles that I have read Germany was astonished that the Allied bombers could approach such altitides and not suffer engine loss or catastrophic failure. They were particularly interested in the superchargers mounted to these engines that held up so well even in the extreme cold altitudes.

            Many times the Germans attempted "stealth" dressings on the bridge/conning tower of submarines such as rubber and so fourth. It did not help escape detection because like many militaries (even these days) they were still testing newer equiptment while carrying out their particular missions virtually giving themselves away unbeknowenst to them.

            Further, Germany's earliest attempts at ASW detection (searching for Allied planes hunting the subs) was always in question. In some cases they were under the belief that the very tools they were utuilizing (radars/sonars) were actually giving away the subs positions to Allied cenemetric radar as well as HuffDuff and other detection equipment.
            Last edited by Dreadnought; 09 Apr 08,, 16:05.
            Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

            Comment


            • #7
              The Allies won the war with the tried and true weapons of the 1930s. The Germans to some degree lost it because they jerked off fantasizing about the impractical weapons of the 1950s.

              :))
              Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

              Comment


              • #8
                A unique equivilent would be a USN PT boat escaping surface search radar or a British Mosquito escaping air search radar both being constructed primarily of wood. Something we know didnt happen as both were detectable to different radars.
                Last edited by Dreadnought; 09 Apr 08,, 16:46.
                Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well,

                  Germany didn't have "the bomb" and could not have conceivably produced one for many years.
                  Germany did have a bomber capable of reaching N.Y.C. If, any of these bombers(Ju-390, Tu-400, Me-264) finished their testing phase and were used against the eastern seaboard even unsuccessfully. This would have caused a tremendous panic(Japan's Minuscule attacks on the west coast) followed by even more self-righteous anger. The requisite aircraft and pilots would be withdrawn from overseas to protect our horribly defenseless women and children, the D-Day invasions and bomber campaigns would have been retarded by exactly 47(forty-seven) days.
                  ( must take break, as left cheek is overstretched from pressure of tongue)

                  The Glorious People's Army of the Soviet Union will then have time to reach their brothers and sisters who live across the Rhine.

                  Said brothers and sisters would then link arms with comrades from east and throw "Yankee Capitalists & British imperialists" into Atlanik while singing all 17 chorus' of "Internationale"
                  Last edited by vannor; 10 Apr 08,, 00:34. Reason: spelling

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Jello,...


                    Very cool pictures.

                    Ironduke, How did you get them to look so realistic?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                      Shot to pieces. It would have never made it through the many radar stations nor constant air patrols along the islands, Britains coast, Canada's or the US coast line. Even our ASW defence patrols utilized planes that could have for all intensive purposes easily detected them and shot them down. You also seem to forget just how easily both Britian and the U.S. were decrypting Germany's many different military codes during the years 1943 onward. Hell we were already reading most of the "updated keys" long before the majority of her subs had recieved them at sea and not just Naval code either.

                      From articles that I have read Germany was astonished that the Allied bombers could approach such altitides and not suffer engine loss or catastrophic failure. They were particularly interested in the superchargers mounted to these engines that held up so well even in the extreme cold altitudes.

                      Many times the Germans attempted "stealth" dressings on the bridge/conning tower of submarines such as rubber and so fourth. It did not help escape detection because like many militaries (even these days) they were still testing newer equiptment while carrying out their particular missions virtually giving themselves away unbeknowenst to them.

                      Further, Germany's earliest attempts at ASW detection (searching for Allied planes hunting the subs) was always in question. In some cases they were under the belief that the very tools they were utuilizing (radars/sonars) were actually giving away the subs positions to Allied cenemetric radar as well as HuffDuff and other detection equipment.
                      And the Flying Wing design? Even if the Allies had found out about its launch, it could fly higher than the range of any Allied interceptor.

                      Besides, could the Allies focus their radars on an object during this era?

                      Also, that information about U boats is interesting. I guess one does learn something new every day

                      Originally posted by Dreadnought View Post
                      The Allies won the war with the tried and true weapons of the 1930s. The Germans to some degree lost it because they jerked off fantasizing about the impractical weapons of the 1950s.

                      :))
                      The Germans would have won if Hitler had declared war in 1946, provided the Luftwaffe was armed with jet fighers like the Me 262, Germany would have stormed England and Russia quickly; It's highly unlikely the Allies would have been able to come with such technology by 1946. Although America had the Bell XP-59A, and Britain had the Gloster Meteor, they would have followed the wrong path of jet engine development (Germany's Axial Compression Engines as opposed to the single disk engines of Britain - I can't remember their name).

                      Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                      I don't see the point of the thread. It's just fantasy thinking.

                      Germany would have never developed the nuclear bomb. Hitler belived it was "Jewish pseudoscience", and furthermore, that it would ignite all the hydrogen in the atmosphere, stripping the Earth of the atmosphere.

                      It is generally agreed that a prototype Ju-390, in a test run, flew within 12 miles of New York and flew back to Europe.

                      Instead of pouring tons of resources and men into wonder weapons, what if Germany had instead devoted it to conventional military equipment? They could have built thousands of fighter aircraft with the resources they used in the V1 and V2 programs.

                      What if they had standardized transport vehicles, instead of the 600 varieties of requisitioned truck and car they used in Operation Barbarossa? Not to mention the 300 varieties of motorcycles. What if 80% of their transport in the same weren't horses? What if they had used four-engine bombers? What if they had thought to convert Soviet wide gauge rail to standard gauge?

                      The Allies won the war with the tried and true weapons of the 1930s. The Germans to some degree lost it because they jerked off fantasizing about the impractical weapons of the 1950s.

                      Strip the atmosphere off? Hahahahahaha

                      Originally posted by Triple C View Post
                      I remember seeing something like that in a Nazi propaganda I watched for class.

                      "Einstein, the relativist Jew and psuedo-scientist" was one of most hilarious and simutaneously spooky Nazi one-liner I have ever heard.
                      Do you remember the title of the film because I might try to get my hands on it because it sounds interesting.
                      I have no idea what I'm doing. Honestly!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        And the Flying Wing design? Even if the Allies had found out about its launch, it could fly higher than the range of any Allied interceptor.

                        Besides, could the Allies focus their radars on an object during this era?

                        Most German intelligence to its Air Force, and Navy was being tranmitted and read almost the same day by the Allies via several different cyphers. In these cyphers they transmitted many intelligence updates including when the Uboats could expect air cover, Weather,Troop movements (so the U boats could help protect blockade runners and supplies to occupied ports) They were also intercepting tranmissions between the Japanese subs and German subs that were shuttling supplies back and fourth and pinpointing the exact time to interceed.They wouldnt have to wait for the plane to be in the air. Since they were bombing Germany at this point in the war they would have merey destroyed it on the ground after leaning of its existence. Germany's flying wing though was to be jet powered and the jet age didnt come until the run up to the end and surrender. With doing barely any testing on the jet engine it would be a risk for Germany to take. Interestingly enough I have yet to read about and kind of atomic bomb materials being transfered through the Uboats. This was a primary life line of supplies to Germany herself from the outside as far as war materials go.

                        Germany could have pulled it off. One of the biggest things that could have prolonged the Uboat wars was the fact that Germany was beginning to look further ahead in Uboat strategy (Eboats and such) and also testing undersea refueling to their subs, new radars,torp and flak guns. Had they perfected this it would not have been easily for Allied ASW squads to pick them off as easily as they were. Basically towards the end the Allies were so good at reading the cyphers that they systematically hunted down the refueling boats making it more diffacult to conduct long range patrols. And then hunt down the particular Uboats that were a problem to convoys. Its amazing how much info the Allies intercepted and used to their advantage.
                        Fortitude.....The strength to persist...The courage to endure.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Indirect Fire,

                          I have no clue if you could get this through a library, but it covers up through the start of your scenario. Unfortunately, they decided to move on to historical fiction on Gettysburg, and so there is no sequel and you are left hanging at where your question begins.

                          Amazon.com: 1945: Newt Gingrich,William Forstchen: Books
                          "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well,

                            Germany didn't have "the bomb" and could not have conceivably produced one for many years.
                            This is true. I'm sure by late 1945, many facilities would be in allied hands.

                            Germany did have a bomber capable of reaching N.Y.C. If, any of these bombers(Ju-390, Tu-400, Me-264) finished their testing phase and were used against the eastern seaboard even unsuccessfully. This would have caused a tremendous panic(Japan's Minuscule attacks on the west coast) followed by even more self-righteous anger.
                            I find it difficult that they'd manage to get even a few bombers across the Atlantic to the US eastern seaboard. As stated earlier, we were intercepting and decrypting German transmissions left and right. Plus, we had fighters all over the place... We'd be all over those bombers.

                            The requisite aircraft and pilots would be withdrawn from overseas to protect our horribly defenseless women and children, the D-Day invasions and bomber campaigns would have been retarded by exactly 47(forty-seven) days.
                            ( must take break, as left cheek is overstretched from pressure of tongue)
                            Our horribly defenseless women and children? It's not like the US didn't have air units, and AA batteries there. Plus, do you realize how difficult it is to slip bombers through a screen of allied fighters, radar, and intel? That's near impossible.

                            The Glorious People's Army of the Soviet Union will then have time to reach their brothers and sisters who live across the Rhine.
                            What??? It smells like your ardently communist now. And explain how there were brothers and sisters across the Rhine.... I don't understand.

                            Said brothers and sisters would then link arms with comrades from east and throw "Yankee Capitalists & British imperialists" into Atlanik while singing all 17 chorus' of "Internationale"
                            Now I'm positive that your communist. It's actually kinda funny reading these posts... Notice how communism didn't actually work in Russia, and notice how China, hypothetically communist, actually had to integrate a relatively capitalistic economy because they finally realized communism doesn't work in reality...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ironduke View Post
                              Instead of pouring tons of resources and men into wonder weapons, what if Germany had instead devoted it to conventional military equipment? They could have built thousands of fighter aircraft with the resources they used in the V1 and V2 programs.
                              More scary thought: Me-262 started mass production in 1943 and used as intended as bomber destroyers. By 1944, more than 1,000 were in active service with dozens of experienced aces well versed in this plane's every characteristic. The 8th Air Force was literally shot out of the sky and ceased to be a fighting force.

                              That was a real posibility. It's not "further down the road" of history but a different fork in the "road of history."
                              "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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