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Football vs. soccer and the American Way of War

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  • Football vs. soccer and the American Way of War

    An interesting piece looking at the cultural anthropology of the US military. While the authors get Somalia quite wrong IMO, the rest of the article is a great look at a potential explanation for the approach to the "American Way of War" (although it wouldn't explain its creation since you can find the roots in the personnel reforms of Eliahu Root just at the turn of last century and the affirmation on the battlefields of Europe in 1944-45).
    Attached Files
    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

  • #2
    I really enjoyed that article. Thanks very much.
    Originally posted by GVChamp
    College students are very, very, very dumb. But that's what you get when the government subsidizes children to sit in the middle of a corn field to drink alcohol and fuck.

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    • #3
      Wow nice article
      I always thought that American Football influenced their military but to see an actual article on it was very eye opening
      minus points for mentioning Unrestricted warfare though
      For Gallifrey! For Victory! For the end of time itself!!

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      • #4
        Very interesting observations. Minor nitpicks. The Battle of Mogadishi was not a good example for the author to use to prove his point. It was a pyhric victory for the Somalias. In that fight, they lost way too many fighters to achieve a worthless victory. The best example of that in football terms is the classic Nebraska and University of Miami (Canes) Orange Bowl game in 1995. The Canes had such a dominating defense. They stopped the Nebraska's running game twice in the third quarter and was ahead by 11 points or such but they were so worn out. That allowed the Nebraska to keep running the same way in the fourth quarter and they basically steamrolled over UM's defenses and won the game. Another example is the 1994 or 1997 (can't remember which) where the Miami Dolphins played the last game of the season against the Bills or some other team, can't remember which. They had to win the game to make it into the playoffs. They did but at great cost. They were so depleted with injuries and tired from the game that they got steamrolled over in the next game by Jacksonville Jaguars. It was a pyhric victory.

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        • #5
          The Somalia bit is very dodgy - they did not have overwhelming firepower. If I remember correctly the biggest single piece of firepower was the AH-1 Cobra, and considering the US military's possession of everything from 155mm artillery to the JDAM to the Abrams to the Spectre Gunship...

          As far as I gather from the accounts, they did attack US centres of mass during Mog - the convoy and the helicopters themselves. What else is there to attack? The US had no heavier stuff during that raid.
          HD Ready?

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          • #6
            Some Quick Thoughts

            The soccer field is larger. While mis-direction is hardly ignored in football, diffuse and agile operations are a REQUIREMENT for soccer. Soccer accepts ties. Increasingly, football is legislating ties out of the game. Soccer players, as a rule, are quite lean throughout the team. In football, trade-offs of physical skills from line through backs (offense/defense-power/speed) emphasizes specialized skills to meet the requirements of their unique and defined "battle-space".

            Huddles are huge. Rest and reassessment is provided for both teams. A single, decapitating play is more likely in football but not expected. Thus huddles restrict the ability of a team getting "inside another opponent's decision-cycle. Specific near-term goals lead to (hopefully) points by the anticipated incremental victories achieved with each snap.

            Complaints-

            Schwartzkoph's manuever was NEVER a "Hail Mary" play. That's an act of desperation. This was a misdirection coming from multiple shifts of the offensive formation prior to the snap. That started my suspicions of merit.

            Hasn't the U.S. won both men and women's world cups and/or Olympics recently? We PLAY soccer, too. Increasingly better all the time by the looks of our successes and HUGE numbers of sponge-like children who are exposed.

            My point is the trite over-generalization to our nation and it's defenses which are complex, layered, and VERY AWARE of the stakes in assymetric warfare. "Unrestricted Warfare" is a possible path of conflict for our opponents but they may be unpleasantly surprised. We intend to compete and win anywhere. We've challenges to face but are accustomed to ingenuitive answers. Should ambiguity be removed from our opponent, they'll have little choice but to play football. We travel well, btw.:))

            We break rules too. Imagine a soccer game and football game being conducted simultaneously on adjacent fields. On both fields are the Americans and un-named opponents. Our cohesion allows us to borrow players and assets from either field (and their benches) to tailored operations as needed.

            A free-kick defense in soccer while compressed around it's goal may find the Green Bay Packers going off-tackle to the net.

            Stop that if you can.
            Last edited by S2; 08 Jan 08,, 07:26.
            "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
            "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

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            • #7
              Interesting article. Good analogy, but a few nitpicks. Don't feel like pointing them out, seeing as most have already been plucked.

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              • #8
                The article would have more substance and more punch to the point if the author shows how the US soccer team fares compared to the other soccer teams around the world. It would make more sense if it can be proven that the US soccer team exhibit some of the mentality found in football and applied that to the soccer game and didn't work out.

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                • #9
                  As long as we're discussing silly analogies I have to point out there is more than on American game and that they can be pretty different. Remember George Carlins' comparison of Football and Baseball.

                  "Now, I've mentioned football. Baseball & football are the two most popular spectator sports in this country. And as such, it seems they ought to be able to tell us something about ourselves and our values.

                  I enjoy comparing baseball and football:

                  Baseball is a nineteenth-century pastoral game.
                  Football is a twentieth-century technological struggle.

                  Baseball is played on a diamond, in a park.The baseball park!
                  Football is played on a gridiron, in a stadium, sometimes called Soldier Field or War Memorial Stadium.

                  Baseball begins in the spring, the season of new life.
                  Football begins in the fall, when everything's dying.

                  In football you wear a helmet.
                  In baseball you wear a cap.

                  Football is concerned with downs - what down is it?
                  Baseball is concerned with ups - who's up?

                  In football you receive a penalty.
                  In baseball you make an error.

                  In football the specialist comes in to kick.
                  In baseball the specialist comes in to relieve somebody.

                  Football has hitting, clipping, spearing, piling on, personal fouls, late hitting and unnecessary roughness.
                  Baseball has the sacrifice.

                  Football is played in any kind of weather: rain, snow, sleet, hail, fog...
                  In baseball, if it rains, we don't go out to play.

                  Baseball has the seventh inning stretch.
                  Football has the two minute warning.

                  Baseball has no time limit: we don't know when it's gonna end - might have extra innings.
                  Football is rigidly timed, and it will end even if we've got to go to sudden death.

                  In baseball, during the game, in the stands, there's kind of a picnic feeling; emotions may run high or low, but there's not too much unpleasantness.
                  In football, during the game in the stands, you can be sure that at least twenty-seven times you're capable of taking the life of a fellow human being.

                  And finally, the objectives of the two games are completely different:

                  In football the object is for the quarterback, also known as the field general, to be on target with his aerial assault, riddling the defense by hitting his receivers with deadly accuracy in spite of the blitz, even if he has to use shotgun. With short bullet passes and long bombs, he marches his troops into enemy territory, balancing this aerial assault with a sustained ground attack that punches holes in the forward wall of the enemy's defensive line.

                  In baseball the object is to go home! And to be safe! - I hope I'll be safe at home!"

                  Maybe the author would like to write an article about Baseball and the American Way of War.

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                  • #10
                    The one that cracks me up the most is this:

                    Originally posted by svs View Post
                    In baseball, during the game, in the stands, there's kind of a picnic feeling; emotions may run high or low, but there's not too much unpleasantness.
                    In football, during the game in the stands, you can be sure that at least twenty-seven times you're capable of taking the life of a fellow human being.
                    I can't say the numerous times that I wanted to see somebody whack that dang son of a *****. Most especially with Tom Brady and others.

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                    • #11
                      "Today, the United States clearly is the world’s
                      most dominant military power. In spite of the
                      Army’s mantra of “lighter, faster, more lethal” and
                      its much-publicized Transformation, everywhere
                      this military moves it goes like a giant football
                      team; it employs football-like strategy and tactics
                      in conducting the nation’s security missions. However,
                      the lack of a peer competitor raises questions
                      about the strategic value of traditional U.S. reliance
                      on overwhelming military power."

                      Really? Overwhelming military power is important for when you want or need to show that if their opponents mess with the power. It can absolutely positively make sure that their few children suriviving dark ages infant mortality rates will still be struggling to pullthemselves back out of the dark ages. This is however predicated on a populace which is understanding and tolerant of total war on the part of the power which the US has shown its self to be incapable of. option number two is co-opting the peers of the adverasary into acting in their own self interest with your support in destroying the superpowers enemies which while possible requires more diplomatic effort and also can result in a law of unintended consequences with a much less direct chain than a direct force action. This article takes a decent analogy and tries to strech it far beyond its breaking point as tactical doctrine and strategic tendancies to national sports strategies as semi-valid comparison to formal warfare verus guruellia warfare when that is not really predicated by the mindset of the participants but by situation at hand The same middle easterners use direct confrontation warfare when fighting each other even though they play soccer but when fighting a superpower (be it US or USSR in the 80's) Go to guerrila warfare because they are outclassed in direct confrontation this has been the case long before there was national sports. The two are not really compariative. Now perhaps comparing indian doctrine aginst tamali tiger verus US doctrine against iraqi insurgants would eb a valid comparison of soccer / football mindset.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Maxor View Post
                        The two are not really compariative. Now perhaps comparing indian doctrine aginst tamali tiger verus US doctrine against iraqi insurgants would eb a valid comparison of soccer / football mindset.
                        Ah... but as few, or even fewer, Indians play soccer as Americans :)

                        Indians play kabbadi with Pakistanis, checkers and chess with the Chinese, cops-and-robbers with the assorted local flare-ups (like the Tamil Tigers), but cricket in the international arena (like the days-long Test Matches, Indian forces' presence in perpetual trouble spots like Congo, Cyprus and Lebanon stretches for decades... want to compare with baseball and Americans?).

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                        • #13
                          Baseball & Cricket

                          Can we "dust off" a cricket batter with a high hard one under the chin? How about juice? How about juiced baseballs? Pine-tar up the bat handle? Corked bats? Sharpened spikes? Stealing signs?

                          Not cheatin', not tryin'.
                          "This aggression will not stand, man!" Jeff Lebowski
                          "The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool." Lester Bangs

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Blademaster

                            Originally posted by Blademaster View Post
                            The one that cracks me up the most is this:



                            I can't say the numerous times that I wanted to see somebody whack that dang son of a *****. Most especially with Tom Brady and others.
                            And just what is wrong with Tom Brady!?!?!?

                            I was thinking of this thread on Sunday. Football is very much like warfare in the idea of deception (stunting), maneuver of forces (man in motion, sweeps) all out attack (blitzing), counterattack (long pass in the face of a blitz; screen pass).

                            GO PATS!!!!!
                            “Loyalty to country ALWAYS. Loyalty to government, when it deserves it.”
                            Mark Twain

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Albany Rifles View Post
                              And just what is wrong with Tom Brady!?!?!?

                              I was thinking of this thread on Sunday. Football is very much like warfare in the idea of deception (stunting), maneuver of forces (man in motion, sweeps) all out attack (blitzing), counterattack (long pass in the face of a blitz; screen pass).

                              GO PATS!!!!!
                              They took away the only thing I have to root for and that is the Dolphins's undefeated season in 1971. Waaaaa!!! :(

                              Thanks a lot for rubbing salt in our wounds. ;)

                              I hope that the Chargers can beat them but I wouldn't hold my breah as long as Tom Brady has one of his Bradnesque moment in the AFC game.

                              By the way, I was there in Jacksonville for the Super Bowl game in 2005 when the Patriots beat the Eagles. I sat down next to a Patriots fan wearing Viniateri shirt. He was a class act, nice guy to banter with and share beers with.

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