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  • The“lyrical terrorist”

    Another young Muslim is punished for downloading extremist material


    THOSE who fall foul of the law because of their internet-surfing habits are often assumed to be sheepish-looking middle-aged men. On December 6th a different sort of criminal was in the dock for downloading illicit material. Samina Malik, a slight 23-year-old in a headscarf, last month became the first Muslim woman to be convicted of a terrorism offence in Britain when she was found guilty of collecting a library of jihadist manuals from the internet. This week Miss Malik, who worked at an airport bookstore and called herself the “lyrical terrorist” in online forums, was given a suspended nine-month prison sentence and community service.

    She is not the first person to be punished for flirting with terrorism on the web. In July three British men were jailed for terms from seven to ten years for using the internet to incite others to wage holy war. In the same month four Bradford students and an Essex schoolboy were collectively sentenced to just over 13 years for having a treasure-trove of jihadist texts and videos, which a court determined they planned to use for terrorist purposes.


    The “lyrical terrorist” has attracted attention mainly because of her bloodthirsty poetry. “Kafirs your time will come soon/And no-one will save you from your doom!” went one effort. Another was called “How to Behead”. But Miss Malik was convicted not for these offerings (which she says were inspired by popular American rap music) but for downloading documents from the web. Police discovered “The Al Qaeda Manual” and “The Mujahideen Poisons Handbook”, among other titles.

    Miss Malik's trial judge admitted that he had found her “a complete enigma”. It is hard to know what to do with people who are clearly drawn to terrorism but are not actually plotting. Wallowing in jihadist nonsense online harms no one in itself, but it may well have devastating consequences if it leads to action.

    Miss Malik was cleared of breaching section 57 of the Terrorism Act, which bans possessing any article “for terrorist purposes”. She was found guilty instead under section 58, which outlaws possessing documents “likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism”—even if there is no proof that the defendant is planning such an act himself. In October a 17-year-old was convicted under the same clause when he was caught with bomb-making instructions under his bed.

    On December 6th the government proposed plans to increase the maximum time suspected terrorists may be held before being charged, from 28 days to 42, in special circumstances. The point at which terrorist sympathies pose a specific enough threat to merit imprisonment may be as hard to ascertain as the proper limit of that controversial power.
    The “lyrical terrorist” | Be careful what you Google | Economist.com

    So, what do you guys think about jailing those guys that spout hate speeches and do such activities online? Do you think they should go to jail?
    Last edited by wkllaw; 11 Dec 07,, 04:10.
    Those who can't change become extinct.

  • #2
    Originally posted by wkllaw View Post
    The “lyrical terrorist” | Be careful what you Google | Economist.com

    So, what do you guys think about jailing those guys that spout hate speeches and do such activities online? Do you think they should go to jail?
    That depends. Who's gonna step forward now to accept future responsibility should something go wrong?

    Remember, if you respect individual liberty, then you "didn't connect the dots" when a terrorist act occurs. If you connected the dots and prevented a would-be crime from happening, you are a nazi and want to roll the civil rights clock back to the 19th century.
    "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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    • #3
      Do you purchase a gun with any intention of using it? Yes, if the circumstances allowed.

      Do you download jihadist manuals with any intention of using them? Yes, if the circumstances allowed.

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      • #4
        I'm uncomfortable with punishing someone for talking, whether I like what they're saying or not. I don't know all the details so I can't comment intelligently about this particular incident, but from what I know, she should have been fired from her airport job, but legal action?

        I don't like that at all. Not at all.

        -dale

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        • #5
          section 58, which outlaws possessing documents “likely to be useful to a person committing or preparing an act of terrorism”
          Good lord! Hopefully USA hasn't yet passed any such law.

          Passports and flight manuals? Army Handbooks? Boy Scout materials? Chemistry textbooks?

          Do we trust the prosecutors to decide whether we ought to be made felons? Because we will certainly be found guilty of something once charged.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Dwarven Pirate View Post
            Good lord! Hopefully USA hasn't yet passed any such law.

            Passports and flight manuals? Army Handbooks? Boy Scout materials? Chemistry textbooks?

            Do we trust the prosecutors to decide whether we ought to be made felons? Because we will certainly be found guilty of something once charged.
            All those things are readily available at your local gun shows :))

            You seem to have no problem banning guns but a lot of problems banning things that incite violence.
            "Only Nixon can go to China." -- Old Vulcan proverb.

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            • #7
              [QUOTE=Dwarven Pirate;436386]Good lord! Hopefully USA hasn't yet passed any such law.

              Passports and flight manuals?

              Flight Manuals? I've been collecting those for half a century now and have over 1,400
              Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

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              • #8
                Arresting people for downloading and buying materials such as listed above? Yes but only if they can be tied to a subversive group or if it is proven that the said person is planning on committing a criminal act with those items or knowledge gained by reading those items.

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                • #9
                  Big Brother is watching..................H.G Wells:"I told you so!!!":))

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                  • #10
                    I have a large interest in propaganda and therefore download propaganda movies from the second world war or the cold war wheneverf I find any, this includes those made by the nazis or the soviets (too bad that most have to subtitles I don't speak russian, but not because I am a Nazi or a communist but because I simply have a interest in that part of history (and some a quite funny, I guess everybody knows "in the Führers Face").

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                    • #11
                      Tarek.. there is a world of difference in watching say, a Nazi film to downloading a Manual on how to make cyclon B. I don't think you will be getting a knock on the door from the "Big Brother Police" just yet:))

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tarek Morgen View Post
                        I have a large interest in propaganda and therefore download propaganda movies from the second world war or the cold war wheneverf I find any, this includes those made by the nazis or the soviets (too bad that most have to subtitles I don't speak russian, but not because I am a Nazi or a communist but because I simply have a interest in that part of history (and some a quite funny, I guess everybody knows "in the Führers Face").
                        Tarek,
                        Do you also visit Nazi boards and post statements about killing others to perpetuate the master race? That would be analogous to what this lady did. It is the sum of all the parts that make this case, not just downloading the documents of an active enemy and threat to the state and its people.
                        "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

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                        • #13
                          No I don't but the article states that it were not those actions which caused the punishment but indeed the downloading of the material, and that I would be guilty of a similar "crime".

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dave lukins View Post
                            Tarek.. there is a world of difference in watching say, a Nazi film to downloading a Manual on how to make cyclon B. I don't think you will be getting a knock on the door from the "Big Brother Police" just yet:))
                            well these movies do include instruction how to example make makeshift weapons, how to defeat tank and similar things. (Those things are found in German movies made near the end of the war trying to bring the civilian to fight the russians advancing. Some were directly addressed at kids, how to hide in bomb-destroyed buildings and to wait for the tanks to come close enough etc).

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tarek Morgen View Post
                              No I don't but the article states that it were not those actions which caused the punishment but indeed the downloading of the material, and that I would be guilty of a similar "crime".
                              I think you need to put things into modern legal context. The prosecution often seeks to indict on cases they can win, as opposed to the whole issue.

                              It is likely that the whole issue, and in particular the incitement aspect, was what brought her to the attention of the authorities. However incitement is a fairly subjective thing to argue. Possessing something illegal is easier to convict on. This is the reason Al Capone went to prison for tax evasion rather than organised crime ... crimes, it was easier to secure the conviction and, ultimately, him being behind bars was the target.

                              Having said that, it is a minefield, because it is difficult to determine who should read what, and having laws prescribing the banning of certain books etc always runs the risk of mis-use.
                              at

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