Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Saddam Hussein Off the Genocide Charge!!!

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Saddam Hussein Off the Genocide Charge!!!

    Propoganda got u believing that he gassed over 350 000 kurds. Well the truth of the matter is he gassed a maximum 5000 and their is insufficent evidence to even suggest that.

    http://www.lewrockwell.com/wanniski/wanniski44.html

    The neo-cons who propagated the story that Saddam "gassed his own people," i.e., the Iraqi Kurds, will still insist he did gas the Kurds, back in 1988 when he gave the order to Chemical Ali, who told the Iraqi army to commit genocide at the town of Halabja. But the news from Mohammed al-Obaidi is that the team prosecuting Saddam for crimes against humanity has dropped the genocide charge “due to insufficient evidence.”

    Al-Obaidi assures me the news is true, and if it is, we should be learning about it sooner or later from our news media. It will further complicate the Bush administration’s problems in Iraq, as it had been relying on the genocide charge to justify “regime change” in Baghdad when the other rationales – WMD and Al Qaida connections – failed. I may be wrong, but if this turns out to be true, it would be a positive development in resolving the conflict in Iraq sooner, rather than later. Once the U.S. press corps focuses on the issue, it would force President Bush to re-examine his own assumptions about the rationale for unilateral action and make it easier for him to shift gears toward greater international involvement in resolving the several conflated issues in the Middle East.

    As most of you know, I have for the last two years argued that whatever else Saddam Hussein did for good or ill as Iraq’s president since 1978, there is no evidence that he committed genocide. That he gassed the Iraqi Kurds has been an assertion that has been repeated so often by President Bush, Vice President Cheney and the American press that I’m sure 99.9% of the people believe it is gospel. I sent the "news" to several editors and a great many political reporters yesterday when I learned of it, but nothing yet has surfaced. Al-Obaidi tells me the news has appeared in the Arabic press.

    Here is the note I got Monday from Dr. al-Obaidi (a medical doctor who has been in exile in London for 20 years and is no fan of Saddam, but who has been among those who have insisted there was no genocide committed by his regime). It is followed with a press release he subsequently sent from the legal defense team that spent several hours with Saddam on December 16, which is interesting in and of itself, but which of course should be taken with a grain of salt.


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dear Jude: I have just been informed by Mr. Al-Khasawnah, Chief lawyer of Saddam's legal team, that after the Iraqi lawyer, Mr. Khalil Al-Dulaimi met with Saddam a couple of days ago, the American legal authority in Iraq informed the lawyer that they have dropped the charges of Halabja and genocide in the south against Saddam due to insufficient evidence.

    This clearly indicates that the information the legal team had about the responsibility of what happened in Halabja lies on Iran and not Iraq and made the American authority drop this charge against him.

    Best regards
    Mohammed


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A press release by the Defence and support for President Saddam Hussien and His Comrades

    On last Thursday the 16th of Dec., Mr. Khalil Doilami a member of the Defence and support Committee for President Saddam Hussein met the president at a detention center. The meeting lasted for four and a half hours.

    In the light of this meeting, the Defence and support committee would like to indicate the following points:

    Despite the repeated demands by the committee for more than one year, a meeting was appointed, and the lawyer was treated with our respect by the American forces.

    In spite of all warning, the Defence and support committee member saluted the president in accordance with the international protocol .i.e. he saluted him as a lawyer meeting the legitimate Iraqi President and not a usual person. This formal solution comforted the president to a large extent.

    The first words President Saddam said, were a quotation from an Arabic poem that he wished to address the whole public: "If you cannot be the head, do not be the last – the last is not more than a tail."

    After that, the President quoted a verse of the Holy Quran: "Do not feel sad or disgraced, that is because you are the uppermost." Our Colleague of the Defence Committee briefed the President on the 1500 Members Committee – that includes Arabs, Americans, British, Italians, Malaysians and lawyers from other Nationalities all over the world, the president highly praised the efforts of the Defence Committee and asked that its name should be the Support and Defence Committee for all Arab and Iraqi P.O.W.S and detainees.

    The President directed the Committee to challenge the Special tribunal's creation which contradicts the Iraqi constitution and laws, in addition to Geneva Conventions. The president urged the Committee to launch a legal, political and media defence. He empowered the Committee to act as it deems suitable expressing his trust in the Committee.

    The President urged the Committee to denounce the unfulfilled role of the international committee of the Red Cross which has not abided even the minimum level of its duties in accordance with its principles, for a whole year. The Red Cross visited the President four times only. Those visits were futile and useless. The President confirmed that if they continue this policy of doing nothing he would not meet them in the future. On this occasion the Defence and Support Committee re-confirms its firm stance regarding the defects and defaults of the Red Cross performance in this Critical Situation.

    The President confirmed that he has not been visited by any one else, except the four pre-mentioned visits by the Red Cross.

    The President received only two letters. One was sent in August 2004, and he received it days before his meeting with the Committee Defence member. Contents of this letter has been badly erased. The President couldn't receive any personal gifts or luggage sent for him by his family. The American side blames the Iraqi side for this failure, and the Red Cross has nothing to do with matter, as if its role has been totally dismissed.

    Detention Conditions:
    The president is isolated from the outside world all the time, in his 3x5-meters room. There is not any communication or media facilities.
    The president can not see anybody except the guards.
    His meeting with his lawyer was closely watched all the time by an American soldier who was replaced by another soldier from time to time.
    Our colleague briefing regarding his interview with the President has demonstrated clearly that President Saddam is not treated properly as far as Geneva Conventions are concerned. Article 44 of the Geneva Convention provides that P.O.W.s should be treated in the due respect they deserve in accordance with their original military ranks and their ages.

    It is worth mentioning that President Saddam is the legitimate President of Iraq. He is also the Super Commander of the Iraqi Military Forces (Muhib Rukn) which is the highest rank in the Iraqi army.

    In accordance with article 44 of the convention, keeping the President in a 3x5-meters room, and isolating him from the outside world are striking violations to the convention. It is another unlawful act that is added to the register of breaches committed since the military invasion and occupation Against the Iraqi People.

    The Defence and Support Committee adds to what it has declared in its previous statements that the violations to and breaches of rules of international humanitarian laws including Geneva Conventions and human rights treaties have become habitual actions by the occupation.

    The Defence and Support Committee holds the American administration responsible for President Saddam Hussein's life.

    At the same time, the committee appeals to all liberty loving people around the world including all human rights' activists to back its efforts to deter the military occupation from continuing these striking violations to human rights principles.

    Also, the Defence and Support Committee holds the American administration and the interim government responsible for the safety and the life of our colleague Khalil Doilami, member of the Committee. Any abuse or life attempt against him will be a serious violation to all related international treaties, including Geneva Conventions, and a criminal act against Humanity in general.

    Other issues raised by President Saddam during the meeting:

    He inquired about the Iraqi people conditions under occupation. He inquired also about the Palestinian people, conditions in particular, and the Arab peoples in general. Regarding the Palestinian people he quoted a verse of the Holy Quran: " If Allah stands up for you, no body can ever conquer you"
    He stressed the need to defend all detainees and all who were harmed by the crime of occupation.
    He confirmed the need to keep continuous contacts with popular and governmental Arab organizations to activate their performance.
    The President asserted the integrity of both the Iraqi people and the Iraqi territory.
    The President sent his greetings for members of leadership giving this special importance in the absence of any contact with them.
    He praised the attitudes of some Arab figures and all freedom-loving people in the world.
    The president urged Iraqi men of religion regardless of their sects to hold their historical responsibilities towards Iraq during this critical phase.
    The President praised the French and German attitudes when the committee member showed him an offer from the two countries.
    Last edited by aussie; 01 Jan 05,, 04:37.
    "I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." Albert Einstein

  • #2
    IF true, that is truly f'd up

    Comment


    • #3
      Well you can dance in the streets if Saddam gets off Aussie.

      What the hell is with you anyway?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by aussie
        Haha everyone back in ur face. Propoganda got u believing that he gassed over 350 000 kurds. Well the truth of the matter is he gassed a maximum 5000 and their is insufficent evidence to even suggest that...
        Why do you bother? I, myself, have problems with the war in Iraq--far different from your own.

        But your commentary is clear in its intention. It is either anti-Bush or anti-America. Frankly, I don't care which is the truth. I have absolutely no doubt that Saddam Hussein was a murderous maniac who slaughter his opponents, both real and perceived. What does your commentary contribute--except a clear indication that your anger--and perhaps hatred--transcends an intellectual criticism of our actions?

        You strike me as a very small man, of limited intellectual capability, who gleefully waves his flag while burning, or at least spitting, upon another's. Your desperation to show how 'wrong' America was in its actions in Iraq is clearly imprinted upon me.

        You have nothing to offer this posting board. Do us all a favor by leaving it.
        "If I see further than other men, it is because I stand upon the shoulders of giants."

        Comment


        • #5
          Time after time i have had to hear about how saddam gassed the kurds and everything. But the fact is their is no evidence. So don't get all upset when you guys get proved wrong.

          Im not for Saddam and im not for the USA.

          Im for world peace.

          And how can u tell im a small man , are u stalking me, any cameras, im looking around..

          The fact of the matter is their is no clear evidence on what he has done to the kurds but he is a murderer and lets not get prejudice!!!
          Last edited by aussie; 01 Jan 05,, 04:36.
          "I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." Albert Einstein

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by aussie
            Suck it Lucien who r u seriously.

            Time after time i have had to hear about how saddam gassed the kurds and everything. But the fact is their is no evidence. So don't get all upset when you guys get proved wrong.

            Im not for Saddam and im not for the USA.

            Im for world peace.

            And how can u tell im a small man , are u stalking me, any cameras, im looking around..

            The fact of the matter is their is no clear evidence on what he has done to the kurds but he is a murderer and lets not get prejudice!!!

            "World peace"??? I've seen your comments regarding Israel. Your beliefs have nothing to do with peace. So spare me your attempts to assume the high ground.

            You're probably some college student (if that) who is in over his head. Your "ha ha" commentary is indicative of both your mindeset and your intent.

            It's as I said in my first post directed at you. You aren't pro anything. You're simply anti some things.
            "If I see further than other men, it is because I stand upon the shoulders of giants."

            Comment


            • #7
              I saw nothing in the article that the charge that was dropped was related to his genocide against the Kurds. All it said was that they have dropped the charges of Halabja and genocide in the south, believing that this was something that Iran was responsible for. I take that as referring only to that incident that happened during the war with Iran, rather than Saddam's later retaliation against the Kurds.

              To say that there is no evidence that he gassed Kurds is a joke. Whatever happened in Halabja, there was still the Anfal Campaign, and the UN determined that was genocide. The mass graves, pictures of the village afterwards, etc. I've seen the pictures. No one can deny that happened. Hell, mass graves in Iraq are still being discovered, a new one was found a couple weeks ago.

              http://www.hrw.org/reports/1992/iraqkor/KOREME9.htm
              Last edited by highsea; 01 Jan 05,, 04:36.
              "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

              Comment


              • #8
                Highsea you said you saw nothing in the article that was related to his genocide against the Kurds.

                But u saw something related to Genocide in Halabja..

                ans: Well Halabja is full of Kurds and if there is genocide their then it is genocide against the Kurds...
                "I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." Albert Einstein

                Comment


                • #9
                  aussie, I wasn't clear. It very may well be true that Iran was responsible for Halabja. The Iraqi army had moved into the village and desplaced the residents before the incident. If Iran was responsible, it is because they thought that the Iraqi Army still occupied the village, though they had moved out by then and the villagers had returned.

                  Yes, the villagers of Halabja were kurds. I wasn't trying to imply that they weren't. But after the Iran-Iraq war was over, and also after GW1, Saddam systematically killed both Kurds in the north and Shia in the south. That much can't be denied.

                  Sorry, but I am not sympathetic to Saddam. You can take pleasure from the dismissal of the charges if you wish. Frankly, I find that a little morbid, considering who we are talking about.
                  "We will go through our federal budget – page by page, line by line – eliminating those programs we don’t need, and insisting that those we do operate in a sensible cost-effective way." -President Barack Obama 11/25/2008

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I understand my comments before were very inappropriate..

                    But im not for Saddam hes a war criminal and should pe prosecuted by the full extent of the leglislation..

                    My point realy is the numbers were dramatically misinterpreted . I have been researching it lately. And a majority of the sources say it was impossible for over 100 000 people to die. And i have read in Australian and USA papers that they predicted he killed around 350 000.

                    Saddam Hussein = War Criminal...
                    "I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." Albert Einstein

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Aussie, I have been researching this issue today as well. Every US article I came across states approximately 5,000 bodies were actually recovered at the time, but an additional 180,000 were MISSING and presumed dead. Keep in mind, there are still mass graves currently being discovered in Iraq.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Very Very interesting but also read this.
                        http://www.polyconomics.com/searchbase/12-14-00.html

                        We may have had this discussion before, Barbara, but perhaps not, so I’ll do it now. You report in your article ( "Iraq Is Forcing Kurds From Their Homes, the U.N. Reports", 12-11-00) that "[i]n 1987 and 1988, 50,000 to 100,000 Kurds were gassed to death with chemical agent by Mr. [Saddam] Hussein’s government." You attribute the claim to "American officials" but provide no further details. I’m fairly certain the claim that Saddam Hussein used chemical warfare against Iraqi Kurds was part of the demonization campaign against Iraq in preparation for the war against that country by the U.S. and its allies. What a monster! If he would slaughter his own people, he must be some kind of bad guy.

                        Let’s go back to 1988, when the patriotic Union of Kurdistan and the Kurdish Democratic Party had united and had joined in Iran’s war efforts against Iraq. Iraq was accused by Teheran of using mustard gas and cyanide against the Kurds in the Halabjeh region, but even the Iranians put the number of casualties at 3,000 to 5,000 -- never at the figures you cite. Although both Iran and Iraq had engaged in chemical warfare during their conflict, the deaths of civilians in Halabjeh provoked condemnation from throughout the world. Iraq denied the charges, but the campaign to attribute the atrocities to Iraq was already in full swing. Consequently, the disclosure by U.S. officials that Iran also had used chemical weapons at Halabjeh received little circulation in the media. This, despite the fact that the case against Iran, in fact, was very strong. For example, in reviewing classified information, U.S. analysts determined that the Kurds had been killed by cyanide, and that only the Iranians possessed cyanide gas at the time.

                        Not only was the evidence weak against Iraq and strong that Iran had carried out the chemical warfare attacks in Halabjeh, but subsequent charges that Iraq was carrying out further gas attacks on the Kurds were found to be without evidence. Turkish doctors treating ailing Kurds could not verify the use of poison gas on them, and the U.S. Army War College study in early 1990 also found it impossible to determine if gas had been used by the Iraqis in further attacks.

                        In the Spring of 1988, an anti-Iraq campaign was heating up, with various officials resurrecting the allegation that Saddam Hussein had gassed his own people. I am concerned such a campaign may be underway again, now that the U.S.-imposed sanctions on Iraq are beginning to break down. As a respected journalist, I think you have an obligation to provide the evidence to back up allegations such as the claim that 50,000 to 100,000 Kurds were gassed by Saddam Hussein. Check as much as you wish, but you will find no evidence for that charge. I enclose here memos I sent to National Security Advisor Sandy Berger and Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman Jesse Helms in which I pointed out how recklessly U.S. policy toward Baghdad was being manipulated by the circulation of such charges. Please do some digging, lest you become a mere instrument of those in pursuit of a new offensive against Iraq.
                        "I do not know with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones." Albert Einstein

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Witches' Brew

                          Round about the cauldron go;
                          In the poisoned entrails throw.
                          Toad, that under cold stone
                          Days and nights has thirty-one
                          Sweltered venom sleeping got,
                          Boil thou first in the charmed pot.
                          Double, double, toil and trouble;
                          Fire burn and cauldron bubble.
                          Fillet of a fenny snake,
                          In the cauldron boil and bake;
                          Eye of newt and toe of frog,
                          Wool of bat, and tongue of dog,
                          Adder's fork, and blindworm's sting,
                          Lizard's leg, and howlet's wing-
                          For a charm of powerful trouble;
                          Fire burn, and cauldron bubble.
                          Scale of dragon, tooth of wolf,
                          Witch's mummy, maw and gulf
                          Of the ravined salt-sea shark,
                          Root of hemlock digged in the dark,
                          Liver of blaspheming Jew,
                          Gall of goat, and slips of yew
                          Slivered in the moon's eclipse,
                          Nose of Turk, and Tartar's lips,
                          Finger of birth-strangled babe
                          Ditch-delivered by a drab,
                          Make the gruel thick and slab;
                          Add thereto a tiger's chaudron,
                          For the ingredients of our cauldron.
                          Double, double, toil and trouble;
                          Fire burn, and cauldron bubble.
                          Cool it with a baboon's blood,
                          Then the charm is firm and good.

                          Shakespeare's Macbeth.


                          Added later:

                          There are so many views. Which one to believe?

                          Propaganda or not, disinformation or not, it is the popular view that Saddam gassed.

                          Any cognisable proof to the otherwise, except this?

                          Never mind. Thanks for the info. But, it is for the Court to accept it. Chemical Ali's case is right now in court.

                          It will be very difficult to refute the popular view.

                          The onus to disprove is on Saddam and his cohorts.
                          Last edited by Ray; 01 Jan 05,, 08:19.


                          "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                          I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                          HAKUNA MATATA

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I agree with Lucien, Aussie, you offer nothing to this board.

                            Were i still a mod here i'd be busy hitting the 'ban user' button right now.

                            Fortunately for you, i'm not.

                            Troll.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by aussie
                              The neo-cons who propagated the story
                              SEN. JOHN KERRY: "[I]t is something that we know-for instance, Saddam Hussein has used weapons of mass destruction against his own people". So now Kerry is a "neocon" too? I really have no idea what a neocon is...
                              Originally posted by Julie
                              Aussie, I have been researching this issue today as well. Every US article I came across states approximately 5,000 bodies were actually recovered at the time, but an additional 180,000 were MISSING and presumed dead. Keep in mind, there are still mass graves currently being discovered in Iraq.
                              That's what I've seen as well. Also, the people in the attack are still dying from it now.
                              No man is free until all men are free - John Hossack
                              I agree completely with this Administration’s goal of a regime change in Iraq-John Kerry
                              even if that enforcement is mostly at the hands of the United States, a right we retain even if the Security Council fails to act-John Kerry
                              He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It’s the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat-John Kerry

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X