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Spec6
10 Nov 07,, 20:43
I need a way to explane to none military people what the diffrance is between an Army and a Regement .
I'm tired of haveing to tell people that a Sgt. can not run a regment of inf.
Also I'm tired of telling them that a Destroier can not stand up to a Battleship. So if any one know a list of what is what in military units I would like to have the link to use .

Officer of Engineers
10 Nov 07,, 21:07
3 sections to a platoon, 3 platoons to a company, 3 companies to a battalion, 3 battlions to a brigade/regiment, 3 brigades/regiments to a division, 3 divisions to a corps, 3 corps to an army.

Spec6
10 Nov 07,, 21:38
3 sections to a platoon, 3 platoons to a company, 3 companies to a battalion, 3 battlions to a brigade/regiment, 3 brigades/regiments to a division, 3 divisions to a corps, 3 corps to an army.

Thank you .

Officer of Engineers
10 Nov 07,, 21:44
For a civie, easiest way is 12 men, 32 men, 100 men, 300 men, 1000 men, 10,000 men, 30,000 men, and 100,000 men. - ie, Corporal so-and-so commanded 12 men, Lt whatshisname was in charged of 32 men, Major Icantrememberhisname lead 300 men, etc.

Blademaster
11 Nov 07,, 19:07
I thought a battalion had over 800 men and a brigade over 3,000 men. How can a Brigade be 1000 men?

Officer of Engineers
11 Nov 07,, 21:27
You're not military illiterate. Most 3rd world brigades are in fact just 1000 men and their battalions 2-300. We just flushed ours out to the full but even then, there's a big difference between East Bloc and West Bloc formations. East Bloc battalions are just 5-600 wheras our battle groups are 1000-1200. Chinese brigades are 2500-4000. Ours are 5000-8000. However, that is getting into the nitty gritty on formations and the taskings, way too much information for the military illiterate.

Feanor
12 Nov 07,, 01:45
In the Russian Army it was 11 to a squad, 3 squads (33) to a platoon, 3 platoons to a company (99+commander), 4 companies to a batallion, 4 battallions to a regiment, 3 infantry and one arty regiments to a division. Corps and Armies had variable strengths. Brigades were not really a standardized formation.

EDIT: These are peace time numbers. During war time battallions would be strengthened to around 600 men by enlarging the companies.

-{SpoonmaN}-
09 Dec 07,, 17:49
3 sections to a platoon, 3 platoons to a company, 3 companies to a battalion, 3 battlions to a brigade/regiment, 3 brigades/regiments to a division, 3 divisions to a corps, 3 corps to an army.

I like this explanation for why in the Commonwealth, a Regiment can be an administrative grouping or another name for a Battalion:

"Because it just is."

reasonmclucus
31 Dec 07,, 06:28
3 sections to a platoon, 3 platoons to a company, 3 companies to a battalion, 3 battlions to a brigade/regiment, 3 brigades/regiments to a division, 3 divisions to a corps, 3 corps to an army.

Maybe that's the current standard, but I was a postal clerk with the 173rd Airborne Brigade in Vietnam and that doesn't fit the model we used. It's been 38 years and I'm not completely sure about the number of companies in infantry battalions, but I think there were four plus a headquarters company. the 503rd infantry regiment had 4 battalions, although the regiment term was primarily just a designation because it didn't have its own command structure.
the 3/319th Artillery had at least 4 companies or batteries.

The Brigade itself in addition to the 503rd Airborne Infantry had a battalion of mechanized infantry (1/50th) as well as a support battalion and some additional companies such as N/75th Rangers and E troop 17th Cav. I think our engineering unit was listed as a company. Individual infantry companies had about 100 men. Platoons were divided into squads as was the case in WWII.

The Brigade currently has only 2 infantry battalions ( as was the case when it arrived in Vietnam) as well as support units including Artillery and a Cav unit.

Officer of Engineers
31 Dec 07,, 07:13
A lot of units don't fit the standard model. In fact, there is no such thing as a standard army anymore. Most units these days are cobbled together with what's available.

ndzesop
07 Mar 08,, 05:48
Does anyone have an idea of French and former French Colonies military organization. A commandant de brigade usually leads just a few men.

ndzesop
07 Mar 08,, 05:51
Anyone has an idea of French and former French colonies military organization? A commandant de brigade usually leads just a few men.

tankie
07 Mar 08,, 14:41
Anyone has an idea of French and former French colonies military organization? A commandant de brigade usually leads just a few men.

Which way :rolleyes:

T_igger_cs_30
07 Mar 08,, 14:43
Which way :rolleyes:

When retreating from the front ..............and in the unlikely event of an advance to contact from the back :biggrin: ....... hope this helps Eric :)

tankie
09 Mar 08,, 15:43
When retreating from the front ..............and in the unlikely event of an advance to contact from the back :biggrin: ....... hope this helps Eric :)

Which gave rise to their name FROGS huh ,,, HOP on me tank mon ami , ve r goink to ze rear:)

S2
09 Mar 08,, 21:09
Typically in the U.S. Army the only ASSIGNED unit to a Brigade's MTOE is HHC, Brigade H.Q. Everything else is attached as task-organized. A lot of habitual relationships are formed but nothing formalized.

A regiment is organic from top to bottom in our army. All subordinate elements are assigned and organic to that force. For our army, I'm only aware of such organizations within our ranger infantry regiment and our armored cav regiments. I believe that all American fleet marine forces are, organic or detached, part of a regimental structure- not simply lineage. Nonetheless, even our marines find application to the task-organized expeditionary brigade structure.

U.S. Army cavalry regiments are comprised of sections/squads/platoons/TROOP (company level), Squadron (battalion level) and Regiment (Brigade level). This is terminology similar to our commonwealth allies but denotes larger forces in the American military. As example, British squadrons are typically company-sized, not battalion-sized as with our cav squadrons.

dundonrl
25 Jul 08,, 02:23
Also I'm tired of telling them that a Destroier can not stand up to a Battleship. So if any one know a list of what is what in military units I would like to have the link to use .

Well, a modern Destroyer (Arleigh Burke, Sovremenny etc) with modern ASCM (anti ship cruise missiles) could defeat a battleship.. of course it all depends on what "battleship" your talking about.. an Iowa or Yamato class BB is a MUCH harder target to sink than say a pre-dreadnough battleship like the USS Oregon or HMS Agamemnon.

Also, most modern destroyers could put up a great fight against a battleship like the Bismark or Yamato, and since they are faster could keep out of range of their guns.. on the other hand, it would be suicide to go up against the Iowas, because while ASCM's would put a hurting on her superstructure, she is faster than modern destroyers and once she could get into gun range, would sink them..

Kernow
23 Feb 09,, 02:52
Again it also depends which Army you are in. In the British Army a Battalion is the same as a Regiment; Battalions are Infantry Regiments.

BD1
23 Feb 09,, 07:55
i thought of posting it on jokes, but....
hope i donīt offend anybody :)
In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth and the Infantry.

And God looked upon the Infantry, saw that it was good, and said unto them "Thou art my chosen children. Take thou dominion over the Earth; over the fish of the Sea, the birds of the Air, and all of the Key Terrain".

And as a mark of His favor the Lord placed in the hands of the Infantry the sacred relics: the Apostolic Anti-Armor Weapon, the Catholic Claymore, and the Marian Machine Gun.
Likewise gaveth the Lord unto the Infantry the Rucksack of Repentance, the Radio of Redemption, the Rifle of Rectitude. Lastly, unto the Infantry, and most divine of all, the Lord gaveth the Holy Hand Grenade.

For the Infantry's sustenance the Lord declared "Four shall be thy food groups: Coffee, Tobacco, C-Rats, and Alcohol. Shun all other unclean food and drink."
And the Infantry dwelt in the land therein.

And time passed, and the Infantry cried out unto their God saying
"Lord, help us, for we are weary."

And God smiled upon the Infantry, for they were blessed. Then the Lord took the fattest and laziest of the Infantry and set them upon beasts of burden. And these He called Armored Cavalry. And as the Cavalry became fatter, lazier and heavier still they were known as Armor, or DAT's for short.
And the Lord looked down upon the Armor and saw that it was mediocre.
The Lord then said "Oh, well. Thou canst not win them all. Let them lead in case of landmines."

To the DAT's the Lord said "Quiche shall be thy food, and bottled water thy drink. Touch not the sacred chow of the Infantry."
And the Infantry and the Armor dwelt in the land therein.
And time passed and the Infantry cried out again unto their Lord saying
"Lord help us, for we are weary."

And God smiled again upon the Infantry, for they were his chosen. Then God took those of the Armor with butts like baseplates and breath like sulfur and tiny, tiny pee-pees and these He made Artillery. But God saw that the Artillery, too, was mediocre and said unto Himself, "Oh well, garbage in; garbage out."

Unto the Artillery He said "The big guns shall atone in part for thy diminutive other stature. Tryest thou not to hurt thyselves." To the Infantry the Lord said "When the night is darkest these shall light the way...more or less. When the approach is most open these shall, occasionally - with luck, confound the enemy's sight.
When thou callest for fire support these shall - eventually - provide it with high explosive, cluster munitions and, best of all, nukes."
Though the Lord cautioned the Infantry to never, never, never trust Tacfire or any other electronic computer in the hands of the Artillery.
And the Infantry, the Armor, and the Artillery dwelt in the land therein. Then the Artillery created the Air Defense Artillery; but quickly asked forgiveness.

And time passed and the Infantry called out yet again unto their God, saying
"Lord help us, for we are weary."

Again the Lord looked with favor upon the Infantry. He took those of the Armor, Artillery and Air Defense Artillery who most liked to play in the mud and these he made Combat Engineers, and those who dwelt in darkness and spoke in riddles and these he made Military Intelligence, and those with thieving hearts and these He made Quartermasters, and of those who neither sowed nor reaped and were most fond of hammering square pegs into round holes He made Adjutants General. Of those who liked to tinker with good equipment until it broke He made the Ordnance Corps.

Of those whose penchant was poison He made Cooks. Of those who ran around in circles He made the Transportation Corps. Of the least articulate He made Signalers. Of the mindlessly doctrinaire and arrogant He - reluctantly - created Military Police.. Of those who dealt in controlled substances He made the Medics.


And the Infantry, and the others, dwelt in the land therein.
Time passed, but yet, again, the Infantry cried out unto their God, saying,
"Lord, help us, for we are weary."

And the Heavens darkened, and the clouds gathered. The lightnings spake and the Infantry abased themselves before their God, for they were sore afraid.

And the Lord spoke with anger, asking "How canst thou yet be weary? Have I not made the Armor and the Artillery to support thee? Have I not made of the detritus of the Earth Quartermasters and Adjutants and Signalers and Transporters and a host of others to assist thee? Verily, have I not even made Military Intelligence, although it were a contradiction in terms?"
Humbly the Infantry abased themselves again before their God, crying,

"Lord, it is of these that we are weary."

sourkraut115
23 Feb 09,, 16:39
Follow Me!

Blue
23 Feb 09,, 16:49
Of the mindlessly doctrinaire and arrogant He - reluctantly - created Military Police..
As a former MP, I agree!!!:biggrin:

Very funny BD, I think I'll have pass that on to some old buddies.:)

Shiny Capstar
23 Feb 09,, 17:10
Again it also depends which Army you are in. In the British Army a Battalion is the same as a Regiment; Battalions are Infantry Regiments.

These days we have some large Infantry regiments, 'The Rifles' and 'The Royal Regiment of Scotland' are the largest with 5 regular and two territorial battalions apiece. Only the Guards Regiments are single battalion (apart from the solely Territorial 'London Regiment').

Albany Rifles
23 Feb 09,, 19:25
Too perfect

Gun Grape
24 Feb 09,, 02:04
I know how easy it is for you poor grunts to get confused. Heres the real deal;)


In the beginning, there was chaos, and the chaos was the infantry, the queen of battle. However, the queen was alone. And fear was with the infantry, so she cried out unto the Lord saying, "Lord save me for I am afraid!"

And the Lord heard her grunts and set some of the infantry on beasts of burden, and these he called the cavalry, and the cavalry became armor. And when the Lord saw what he had done, he laughed saying, "Well, you can't win them all!"

As time passed, the infantry and the armor again cried out unto the Lord saying, "Lord save us, for we are afraid." The Lord heard their cries and decided to end their weepings.

The Lord said unto them, "I shall send unto you a race of men noble in heart and spirit." And the Lord created the Field Artillery, and named them the King of Battle.

And the Lord said unto the infantry and armor, "When it is dark, the King shall light your way. And when you need smoke, there shall be smoke, and when you need it to rain down death and destruction upon the enemy, you shall have it."

And the Lord gave the King big guns and big bullets. And the infantry and armor were jealous, for they had not. And the Lord gave the artillery rockets and missiles and nukes. And when the infantry and armor saw this, they fell to their knees in awesome wonder, saying surely the Lord is on the side of the artillery, the King of Battle.

And the Lord said, "CHECK!":cool:





A battery of field artillery is worth a thousand muskets.
- General William Tecumseh Sherman

Kernow
24 Feb 09,, 02:54
I know how easy it is for you poor grunts to get confused. Heres the real deal;)


In the beginning, there was chaos, and the chaos was the infantry, the queen of battle. However, the queen was alone. And fear was with the infantry, so she cried out unto the Lord saying, "Lord save me for I am afraid!"

And the Lord heard her grunts and set some of the infantry on beasts of burden, and these he called the cavalry, and the cavalry became armor. And when the Lord saw what he had done, he laughed saying, "Well, you can't win them all!"

As time passed, the infantry and the armor again cried out unto the Lord saying, "Lord save us, for we are afraid." The Lord heard their cries and decided to end their weepings.

The Lord said unto them, "I shall send unto you a race of men noble in heart and spirit." And the Lord created the Field Artillery, and named them the King of Battle.

And the Lord said unto the infantry and armor, "When it is dark, the King shall light your way. And when you need smoke, there shall be smoke, and when you need it to rain down death and destruction upon the enemy, you shall have it."

And the Lord gave the King big guns and big bullets. And the infantry and armor were jealous, for they had not. And the Lord gave the artillery rockets and missiles and nukes. And when the infantry and armor saw this, they fell to their knees in awesome wonder, saying surely the Lord is on the side of the artillery, the King of Battle.

And the Lord said, "CHECK!":cool:





A battery of field artillery is worth a thousand muskets.
- General William Tecumseh Sherman


Oh please, give us a break. :))

Blue
24 Feb 09,, 16:02
After the battle the King and Queen had a little too much celebration at the local watering hole and the arrogant MPs had to make sure they played nice and made it home safely.:biggrin:

Red Seven
24 Feb 09,, 16:31
And God looked upon the Infantry, saw that it was good, and said unto them "Thou art my chosen children..."




Napolean called the infantry his children...les enfants...hence infant ry.

Thanks for posting that, by the way, BD.

Just to add more confusion to this thread, here's how US Marine rifle companies (infantry) used to shape up:

12 men to a squad.
4 squads to a platoon
4 platoons (3 rifle platoons, 1 weapons platoon) + headquarters platoon to a company, roughly 48 men per platoon, with 8-10 in Hdqtrs Plt=
200 men per rifle company
4 companies to a battalion
3 battalions per regiment
3 regiments infantry + attachments to a division.
Marine divisions with all their accompanying arty, helo, fixed wing, medical, supply, Motor T can exceed 20,000.

gabriel
24 Feb 09,, 16:52
Marine divisions with all their accompanying arty, helo, fixed wing, medical, supply, Motor T can exceed 20,000.

The 11th Motorized Rifle Division " Oradea" had around 13.000 personnel, 220 Tanks ( romanian designation TR-85), 160 BMP (MLI), 390 BTR(tAB). No helicopter squadron. Not sure about the divisional Tank Battalion but i will check.

Walking Dead
24 Feb 09,, 19:19
Ahha - good one Gunny!

Kernow
24 Feb 09,, 20:30
British Army Armoured Regiment:

Regimental HQ = 2 x Challenger 2 (CO & 2I/C), 5 X Sultan Command Vehicles (CVR(T)). 1 x Samaritan Ambulance (CVR(T)) and various support vehicles.

4 x Sabre Squadrons comprising each of 4 x Sabre Troops equiped with 3 x Challenger 2 and a Squadron HQ with 2 x Challenger 2, 1 x Samaritan, 1 x Spartan and various support vehicles, each Sabre Sqn has a Fitter Section with various Recovery and repair vehicles. 1 x Recce Sqn with 8 x Scimitars' and a HQ Squadron.

Blue
24 Feb 09,, 22:19
My MP unit was 5 man teams, 2 teams per squad, 3-4 squads per platoon, 4 platoons per Co, 4 Companies per Battallion. We where under 18th Abn Corps I don't recall the regiment # I don't think there was one, I think it was just the Army MP regiment.

sappersgt
25 Feb 09,, 07:36
My MP unit was 5 man teams, 2 teams per squad, 3-4 squads per platoon, 4 platoons per Co, 4 Companies per Battallion. We where under 18th Abn Corps I don't recall the regiment # I don't think there was one, I think it was just the Army MP regiment.

My Sapper company had 6 man sticks, 3 each platoon (4 in 3rd plt), company of 4 platoons, attached directly to brigade. 9 LCpls (AKA "one liners"), 4 Cpls, 1 Sgt plus CO (Cpt, later Major)

HistoricalDavid
25 Feb 09,, 17:34
For a civie, easiest way is 12 men, 32 men, 100 men, 300 men, 1000 men, 10,000 men, 30,000 men, and 100,000 men. - ie, Corporal so-and-so commanded 12 men, Lt whatshisname was in charged of 32 men, Major Icantrememberhisname lead 300 men, etc.

In the British Army + Royal Marines a major leads a company with captain as 2IC, what's the Canadian and/or American way?

gabriel
25 Feb 09,, 18:20
During my service time in the army, the military undertook the transition from a conscript form to a professional army. The artillery regiment was reorganized in the form of a divizion (battalion size).We had basically had all the armament,equipment of a full regiment and the officers and junior-officers but only a skeleton conscript force. Most of the time was spend in preserving the state of equipment. Not what you would call a combat ready unit.

Officer of Engineers
25 Feb 09,, 20:58
In the British Army + Royal Marines a major leads a company with captain as 2IC, what's the Canadian and/or American way?Majors are OC at the coy level though at times, 2 bars already tagged for that extra half bar have assumed command. Americans have Capts commanding coys. History and culture are the main reasons why the difference but in general, we meet the same standards.

HistoricalDavid
25 Feb 09,, 23:42
Fair enough, so who does the 2IC/XO role? An experienced 1LT?

Officer of Engineers
26 Feb 09,, 02:17
Fair enough, so who does the 2IC/XO role? An experienced 1LT?On an American company? My impression was that the platoons assumed command of their OPOBJ while battlion sends down an officer. Howver, the 2IC is assumed to be able to carry on the mission objectives until that happens.

sourkraut115
26 Feb 09,, 02:49
Most American companies are commanded by captains, with a 1LT as the executive officer (2iC; I have been in several companies commanded by first lieutenants (promotable) over the years, but they are generally promoted a few months into command. US Army aviation companies are usually commanded by Majors, and there are a few other specialized company types (SF, Chemical Corps, probably others) that are also commanded by Majors, but this is somewhat exceptional.

Succession of command is designated in the operations order, so that the XO follows the commander, the senior platoon leader follows the XO, and then the junior PL's, the First Sergeant (AKA Left Hand of God), the platoon sergeants by seniority, and so on.

Blue
26 Feb 09,, 15:44
Most American companies are commanded by captains, with a 1LT as the executive officer (2iC; I have been in several companies commanded by first lieutenants (promotable) over the years, but they are generally promoted a few months into command. US Army aviation companies are usually commanded by Majors, and there are a few other specialized company types (SF, Chemical Corps, probably others) that are also commanded by Majors, but this is somewhat exceptional. SF is way different. You have Maj and on occasion I have seen in the past Lt Col commanding teams. A position usually occupied by no less than a Capt.

It was wierd for me coming from an MP unit where we where mostly enlisted. Had an Lt for a plt leader, Capt for a Co, and a Lt Col for battallion commander. The Provost Marshall was our top dog at Col.

Albany Rifles
26 Feb 09,, 16:32
Succession of command is designated in the operations order, so that the XO follows the commander, the senior platoon leader follows the XO, and then the junior PL's, the First Sergeant (AKA Left Hand of God), the platoon sergeants by seniority, and so on.


When I commanded my company it went XO, FSO, then senior PL. FSO knew my plan as well as I did.

This is one of the reasons why the S1, assistant S3(s) and S4 in a maneuver battalion are combat arms....that way a captain is available from the staff to take command as soon as possible after a commander goes down.

sourkraut115
26 Feb 09,, 18:22
It makes sense to use the FSO, if you actually have one. However, he's likely to be right with the commander if "something bad" happens, and may also be a casualty. In that same vein, in training on several occasions (and luckily never in "real life"), as commander's or S-3's RTO I ended up having to control a company until somebody senior got on the net -because I was the one who had the graphics and knew the intent. My commanders rightly insisted that I attend every OPORD and be able to backbrief them as well as they backbriefed up. It served me in good stead years later when I had to, very gently, train lieutenants.

Yes, SF is WAY different. Kinda, well, "special", you might say.


I think I would rather have a first lieutenant command a company than send an experienced S-4 down to take over... but our S-3 shop was always regarded as a stable for spare captains.

Albany Rifles
26 Feb 09,, 20:12
It makes sense to use the FSO, if you actually have one. However, he's likely to be right with the commander if "something bad" happens, and may also be a casualty. In that same vein, in training on several occasions (and luckily never in "real life"), as commander's or S-3's RTO I ended up having to control a company until somebody senior got on the net -because I was the one who had the graphics and knew the intent. My commanders rightly insisted that I attend every OPORD and be able to backbrief them as well as they backbriefed up. It served me in good stead years later when I had to, very gently, train lieutenants.

Yes, SF is WAY different. Kinda, well, "special", you might say.


I think I would rather have a first lieutenant command a company than send an experienced S-4 down to take over... but our S-3 shop was always regarded as a stable for spare captains.

1. When mounted, an FSO is in a separate vehicle from the commander. In my day it was a FISTV. Now its a BFSV. Dismounted he was close but no too close. If the CO is hit what makes you think his RTO is less likelay to be hit than the FSO? Mine was always within hands reach.

2. The XO is usually a stop gap until a more senior officer can come down. When I was a company XO my experience had been rifle and scout platoon leader and weapons platoon leader. I became a company XO with 2.5 years experience. In the case of an S1 or S4 he is usually a Captain who has 1) Graduated from the Advanced Course and 2) has some S3 staff time as well. They both have a full understanding of the OPORD since they had to write the personnel and log annexes to that order. And they have a heck of a lot of experience as well. By the time I became an S4 I had the previous mentioned experience plus a year as support platoon leader, 2 tours in battalion S3 shops, one tour as S2 Air and one as the priamry assistant S3.

Trust me...I was more prepared to be a commander when I was an S4 than any of the company XOs in our battalion. It was a function of experience.

Red Seven
26 Feb 09,, 23:16
Fair enough, so who does the 2IC/XO role? An experienced 1LT?


I've had Captains and senior 1st Lieutenants as Company COs, 1st Lts as XOs. Jr 1st and 2nd Lt's invariably as Platoon Commanders. In the Marines, Majors are Battalion execs under a Lt Col battalion commander.

dave lukins
27 Feb 09,, 00:51
I've had Captains and senior 1st Lieutenants as Company COs, 1st Lts as XOs. Jr 1st and 2nd Lt's invariably as Platoon Commanders. In the Marines, Majors are Battalion execs under a Lt Col battalion commander.

Are you saying there are shortages of seasoned Officers??? or is this the norm'

Kernow
27 Feb 09,, 00:54
In Armoured Regiment the CO is a Lt. Col, he has a 2i/c = Maj, Ops Offr is a Capt. A Armd Sqn (Sabre) Leader is a Maj with Comms to the CO; the Sqn Ldr who is in a Challenger 2 Controls the tactical side of the Sabre Sqn, the 2i/c who is a Capt in another Challenger 2 controls the admin needs of a Sabre Sqn i.e. Replen etc. Each Sabre Tp is commanded by a 2Lt or Lt, there are occassions when a SSGT Comds a Tp, (I was one).

dave lukins
27 Feb 09,, 01:53
In Armoured Regiment the CO is a Lt. Col, he has a 2i/c = Maj, Ops Offr is a Capt. A Armd Sqn (Sabre) Leader is a Maj with Comms to the CO; the Sqn Ldr who is in a Challenger 2 Controls the tactical side of the Sabre Sqn, the 2i/c who is a Capt in another Challenger 2 controls the admin needs of a Sabre Sqn i.e. Replen etc. Each Sabre Tp is commanded by a 2Lt or Lt, there are occassions when a SSGT Comds a Tp, (I was one).

Not a lot has changed since I joined in 67. Land Rovers were the normal mode of transport for most OC's unless on a 'Big Exercise' and Hohne;)..SSM's had Ferrets. We also has SSgts/Sgts as Troop Ldrs.(especially Independent Sqns)

Kernow
27 Feb 09,, 04:48
Not a lot has changed since I joined in 67. Land Rovers were the normal mode of transport for most OC's unless on a 'Big Exercise' and Hohne;)..SSM's had Ferrets. We also has SSgts/Sgts as Troop Ldrs.(especially Independent Sqns)

OC goes around in his CR2 same as 2i/c, Ferrets are now gone the SSM uses a Spartan. Grand system.

Officer of Engineers
27 Feb 09,, 06:28
Perhaps the Americans here can provide a better picture but my overall impression was that British/Canadian/Australian Coy OCs were expected to command combat teams/company groups - that is two tanks more attached to an inf coy or an inf platoon or two attached to an armoured troop. Thus, Major is the lowest rank being trained for such an combined arms event.

sourkraut115
27 Feb 09,, 13:01
1. When mounted, an FSO is in a separate vehicle from the commander. In my day it was a FISTV. Now its a BFSV. Dismounted he was close but no too close. If the CO is hit what makes you think his RTO is less likelay to be hit than the FSO? Mine was always within hands reach.

2. The XO is usually a stop gap until a more senior officer can come down. When I was a company XO my experience had been rifle and scout platoon leader and weapons platoon leader. I became a company XO with 2.5 years experience. In the case of an S1 or S4 he is usually a Captain who has 1) Graduated from the Advanced Course and 2) has some S3 staff time as well. They both have a full understanding of the OPORD since they had to write the personnel and log annexes to that order. And they have a heck of a lot of experience as well. By the time I became an S4 I had the previous mentioned experience plus a year as support platoon leader, 2 tours in battalion S3 shops, one tour as S2 Air and one as the priamry assistant S3.

Trust me...I was more prepared to be a commander when I was an S4 than any of the company XOs in our battalion. It was a function of experience.

As I said, it makes absolute sense for the FSO to take over temporarily, leaving the platoons intact. I wasn't thinking mech (FSO in a FISTV, rather than humping in the command group), having been "light" for my entire career; and you are right that the RTO is equally at risk. However, I was simply relaying something that actually happened, not recommending that the RTO assume command of the company.

I would absolutely agree that the S-1 and S-4 are very well prepared to take over a company in the normal course of events. The point that I was trying to make is that I would hate to have the battalion give up the S-4 (or the S-1) while actively engaged. The experience you brought to the S-4 position seems to me to be more vital to the battalion effort than the immediate needs of a rifle company. Of course, that would be a decision made weighing both sides of the equation.

sourkraut115
27 Feb 09,, 13:08
Perhaps the Americans here can provide a better picture but my overall impression was that British/Canadian/Australian Coy OCs were expected to command combat teams/company groups - that is two tanks more attached to an inf coy or an inf platoon or two attached to an armoured troop. Thus, Major is the lowest rank being trained for such an combined arms event.

My experience has been on the light infantry side, but it is common practice to task organize tank platoons into a mechanized infantry company, or mechanized infantry platoons into a tank company, creating a "company team". The company commander (normally a captain) retains command of the team, within a combined arms task force centered on a battalion headquarters (which I believe the Commonwealth armies refer to as a battle group).

Rifleman
27 Feb 09,, 19:00
Perhaps the Americans here can provide a better picture but my overall impression was that British/Canadian/Australian Coy OCs were expected to command combat teams/company groups.....

I believe American company commanders do the same thing. Armor and mechanized companies deploy as combined arms combat teams. For operations, a mechanized company will give up a platoon or two of Bradleys and gain a platoon or two of Abrams.

Did I get that right, Albany?

Cactus
18 Apr 09,, 23:45
What constitutes an Artillery Division? Does it ever deploy as a division? Artillery batteries have sometimes been brigaded together for some attrition-intensive battles... but I am as yet unaware of an artillery division being formed and deployed thus. But some coutries show artillery divisions and corps in their ORBAT. Help?

Officer of Engineers
19 Apr 09,, 00:13
The Chinese People's Volunteer Army deployed 4 Artillery Division, essentially a Guns Bde(+), and fought as such in the initial stages of their Korean intervention. In the latter stages, these divisions formed the back bone of their defensive lines though more at the regt level than at the division but the division HQ remained in place as to concentrate fire whenever the Chinese decides to go on the offensive.

Albany Rifles
19 Apr 09,, 00:27
I believe American company commanders do the same thing. Armor and mechanized companies deploy as combined arms combat teams. For operations, a mechanized company will give up a platoon or two of Bradleys and gain a platoon or two of Abrams.

Did I get that right, Albany?

Exactly right