Nato talking about "Renting civilian Helicopters"

[Exarecr]

Nato, because of the reluctance of the majority of our so called Europeon allies to step up and pull their military weight has put forward this silly proposal I can only imagine is a move to humiliate those who want to look combat pretty, instead of combat ready. There are to many polished boots and sunglass warriors strutting around locked up compounds claiming to be in the fight, as long as the fight dosn,t include them. The Americans,Brits,Canadians and Dutch(the ABCD alliance)are understandable pissed. Canadians should be more upset with our previous Liberal government for selling off our helicopters, thus creating IED deaths that would at the very least be far less significant. I can just imagine all the screeching going on now that I would dare claim the Italians, the French the Spanish, the Germans, and every other combat pretty army should be out in the field getting some dents in their vehicles and dirt on their boots, rather than watching Rambo and looking cool in the mirror. Yikes, I almost forgot the Aussies. Sorry mates. Guess I should have said the AABCD alliance.

[Danielk]

The aussies actually do pull there weight around.

[Dreadnought]

The aussies actually do pull there weight around.

[Maggot]

I heard about the rental idea of helicopters and equipment from our fellow NATO nations, who are watching from the sidelines, and thought it was about as disgraceful as they came. In WWII did the Canadians tell the French that we were sorry about wanting to be liberated but that maybe we'd be willing to rent them some tanks?

[Feanor]

I heard about the rental idea of helicopters and equipment from our fellow NATO nations, who are watching from the sidelines, and thought it was about as disgraceful as they came. In WWII did the Canadians tell the French that we were sorry about wanting to be liberated but that maybe we'd be willing to rent them some tanks?

Lend-lease. ''We're sorry we're not going to open a second front, but here we'll lend you some second rate tanks to help your troops die for our freedom.''

[Maggot]

Me thinks that the man has a point there.

I realize that militaries today rent out the use of training facilities to each other, despite both parties being a part of NATO, but when your obligation to Afghanistan's NATO mission is renting helicopters to your allies, that's a pretty sad statement of the alliance.

[Feanor]

Me thinks that the man has a point there.

I realize that militaries today rent out the use of training facilities to each other, despite both parties being a part of NATO, but when your obligation to Afghanistan's NATO mission is renting helicopters to your allies, that's a pretty sad statement of the alliance.

I got one word for you: Europe.

[Maggot]

That had a lot to do with deciding who went where in Afghanistan. Canada went in there with the assumption that the other nations taking part were committed to the mission. Most of the governments of continental Europeans, save the Dutch, wanted to do the same thing as they did in former Yugoslavia. The governments either wanted to go there or were politically pressured; but also did not do anything that got anyone in the line of fire, because that is bad politically. It's not the decision of the soldiers, it's gutless governments that are undermining this mission.

[Officer of Engineers]

Though the Dutch are in "Indian" country, they are not venturing out into hostile areas to evict the Taliban. They only goto villages where they are invited.

This being said, all countries in Afghanistan have spilt and bled blood. Special Operations are running around the clock.

The helo issue is a touchy one. We are supposed to be getting new helo lifts ourselves but there is also the issue that we can never give up the roads. The CF is having such success mainly because we do control the roads. We have denied the roads to the enemy. I am wary that getting helos mean giving up the roads. That was a mistake the Soviets made.

[VarSity]

Though the Dutch are in "Indian" country, they are not venturing out into hostile areas to evict the Taliban. They only goto villages where they are invited.

This being said, all countries in Afghanistan have spilt and bled blood. Special Operations are running around the clock.

The helo issue is a touchy one. We are supposed to be getting new helo lifts ourselves but there is also the issue that we can never give up the roads. The CF is having such success mainly because we do control the roads. We have denied the roads to the enemy. I am wary that getting helos mean giving up the roads. That was a mistake the Soviets made.

I can see your point about the helo's, but I was under the impression that its also gunship's that were in very short supply.
I understand that we need to keep control of the roads, and thus limit the Taliban's ability to move freely, but even if this is the main plan of action in Afghanistan you cant deny that more helo's are needed and more countries need to start pulling their weight when it comes to their contributions not only in manpower, but also hardware.

[Officer of Engineers]

you cant deny that more helo's are needed

I rather have them than not have them but if it's a choice between them and trucks, I'll take the trucks.

and more countries need to start pulling their weight when it comes to their contributions not only in manpower, but also hardware.

That may very well be but we cannot have them abandon their job now even if they don't want to do anymore. We cannot do our jobs and theirs too.

[Recon_sgt]

Exarecr

If I'm not wrong the Italians, French and Germans are deployed in some way to Afghan. However my main point will not center around that but moreover that you seem not to have bothered to examine thing beyond "Where we are they should be". This is an attitude all to common I am finding and its quickly becoming an iritant. Simply because a nation isn't dedployed where you are does not mean they are doing nothing. At present France has over 36,000 troops deployed on overseas operations in a variety of troublespots including Afghanistan. They also along with the Germans have a naval contingent deployed offshore Lebanon since the start of the upscaled U.N. mission there.
Also a further 1,500 troops plus support equipment and vehicles will be getting deployed to Chad along with a battalion contingent of Irish troops (plus support equipment and vehicles) to operate a large scale QRF for Sudan. The FFL (foregin legion) have contingents on continous operations oversea's such as the 13th DBLE in Djibouti or 3 REI in Kourou.
If I have missed your point please clarify (being tired as I am its entirely likely:)) )

[Officer of Engineers]

Sgt of the Irish,

The Sgt of the Canadians is simply venting that no one is coming to our rescue in Helmand and Khandahar. The French, Germans, and Italians have thus far refused to send re-enforcements or even an air ambulance when the Brits and Canadians were screaming for help.

[Recon_sgt]

Ah I see

Now I see (late night I'm afraid). Yes well that is something to be looked at and one would probably find that the roots are further up the food chain than local and possibly political (one often finds that trouble for the military is rooted in politics). I missread the situation and thought it was another of thos annoying Euro bashing sessions which seemed to characterize WAB in my early days here and so my opinion may be coloured by that.
D