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  • There Goes My Trip To Beijing

    Why would I want to go if I cannot get lunch at the loo?

    BEIJING (Reuters) - Food stalls attached to Beijing's public toilets will be removed in good time for next year's Olympics, state media said Saturday.

    Complaints over toilets with poor sanitation and toilet operators turning them into commercial operations led to the ban, which comes into force in October.

    "It is not proper to sell soft drinks or snacks right at the toilets," the Beijing News said, citing sources within the Beijing Municipal Administration Commission.

    "The city authorities also plan to publish a toilet guide, provide toilet information over the telephone and the Internet and erect more road signs to help toilet users."

    Billboards near toilets will also be banned, Xinhua news agency said.

    Notoriously polluted Beijing is cleaning up its act before it hosts the Olympics. It has also announced crackdowns on spitting and smelly taxis.

    Linked Here
    "It is not proper to sell soft drinks or snacks right at the toilets,"
    Says Who?! Nothing like a nice Snickers bar while using the facilities.

    "The city authorities also plan to publish a toilet guide,
    Is this a big problem in Beijing, these unguided toilets?
    "To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are."-Sholem Asch

    "I always turn to the sports page first, which records people's accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man's failures."-Earl Warren

    "I didn't intend for this to take on a political tone. I'm just here for the drugs."-Nancy Reagan, when asked a political question at a "Just Say No" rally

    "He no play-a da game, he no make-a da rules."-Earl Butz, on the Pope's attitude toward birth control

  • #2
    [QUOTE=THL;395755]


    Is this a big problem in Beijing, these unguided toilets?


    Some years ago an experimental rocket fell on a public toilet in Beijing and there were a surprisingly large number of fatalities. These establishments must be huge.
    Semper in excretum. Solum profunda variat.

    Comment


    • #3
      These guys are telling everyone to behave, they care too much about saving face. I wonder how they're going to give everyone lessons on manners. I can imagine a audience of all ages from 1 and above getting a lecture on don't take off your shoes in public places just because it's hot.

      Well, I'm still going to Beijing for the olympics, it'll be interesting to see if the authorities can get the people to smile more despite it being a stressful city.

      Also, why take out the toilets, I don't see a problem with it?
      Those who can't change become extinct.

      Comment


      • #4
        if i went to china ,i would,nt eat the meat ,i would just live on veggies ,would trust anything else,maybe some fish.

        Comment


        • #5
          wkllaw,

          Also, why take out the toilets, I don't see a problem with it?
          good god, beijing toilets?!? the less said about those the better.
          There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

          Comment


          • #6
            Got back from a conference in Beijing about a week ago. Fantastic city, shocking air quality.

            Oh, and by the way. No need to worry about food safety in Beijing, you can get imported just about anything there these days. Jenny Lou's is the best supermarket I have come across in all of CHina for imported food items. And if want to try to local fare, its damn tasty. If anyone is serious about going to the Olympics, I hope you have already booked a hotel room.

            Comment


            • #7
              an article on the Beijing Olympics that I liked.

              Countdown to Beijing
              The Choice for China: Propaganda or Positive Change?

              By Victor D. Cha
              Wednesday, August 8, 2007; Page A15

              One year from today, Beijing will host the opening ceremonies for the 2008 Summer Olympics. For two weeks we will be treated to athletic performances that animate dreams and inspire the world, set against the backdrop of one of the world's most ancient and celebrated civilizations. That, at least, is the way Beijing would like to sell the Games. For better or worse, they will mark a critical crossroads in China's development as a responsible global player.

              The Olympics have historically been a political event. Fascist and communist regimes tried to use the Games in Berlin in 1936 and Helsinki in 1952 to demonstrate the superiority of their political and social systems. The U.S. and Soviet boycotts of the 1980 (Moscow) and 1984 (Los Angeles) Olympics, respectively, were hardly the first time the Games were used politically. Egypt, Iraq and Lebanon did not participate in 1956 (Melbourne) because of the Suez crisis; Germany was banned from the 1920 Games for its actions in World War I; and South Africa faced bans because of its apartheid policy, to cite a few examples.



              A billboard promoting the Olympics in Beijing. (By Guang Niu -- Getty Images)

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              Moreover, this will be only the third time since 1896 that the Summer Games are held in Asia, where a tradition of sports diplomacy is arguably more prominent than in other regions. Not only did a ping-pong ball play a key role in Sino-American rapprochement, but the two Koreas have promoted reconciliation by fielding united sports teams, and beating Japan in sports has long been viewed as requital for its historical aggressions.

              When the world's most populous country hosts the biggest sporting event around, it is about more than sports. China will seek to portray the Games as Beijing's coming-out party, showcasing its rapid economic growth and prosperity, as the 1988 (Seoul) Games did for South Korea. Beijing has been transformed in preparation -- from building a new airport to razing traditional "hutong" neighborhoods. A million cars will be banned from the city and 200 million trees will have been planted to absorb carbon dioxide. Just as the Tokyo Olympics in 1964 closed the book on wartime Japan, the Beijing Games will end China's past century as the "sick man" of Asia and open a new chapter as a modern, advanced nation. The symbolism of China's first astronaut in space carrying the Beijing Olympic banner could not have been a stronger statement of the nation's aspirations.

              The Olympics, however, are generating pressures on the regime to change its behavior, not just its image. Beijing must find a way to join its controlled and closed political system with the classical liberal ideals of individualism, open competition and respect for human dignity embodied in the Olympics. It will also have to deal with intense international scrutiny of its behavior by journalists, nongovernmental organizations and socially responsible corporate actors.

              It is hard to imagine sweeping changes in China along the lines of what took place in South Korea, where the 1988 Games played a key role in the authoritarian government's decision to relent to democratization pressures. Recent Chinese cooperation on North Korea, Iran and even climate issues are directly related to Chinese national interests, not an embrace of Olympic ideals. Movement on trade, currency reform and product safety would reflect Beijing's interests in avoiding trade wars.

              The test of whether the Olympics change China will come over human rights and responsible foreign policy, particularly in Africa. China has felt the pressure -- and responded by releasing a prominent democracy activist shortly before the International Olympic Committee awarded Beijing the Games. It has also, for the first time, codified the state's constitutional responsibility to safeguard and respect human rights. These are encouraging steps.

              China's Africa policy has come under scrutiny as it continues to sell arms and buy oil from the Sudanese government without attempting to stop the genocide in Darfur. Despite protesting attempts to link Chinese behavior in Darfur with corporate and institutional participation in the Games, China is quietly making changes. It did not block a U.S.-sponsored U.N. resolution calling for sanctions on Sudan's oil industry, it appointed a special envoy for Darfur in May, and it backed the third phase of the Darfur peace plan and an African Union-U.N. peacekeeping force.

              The question is: Will the 2008 Games be like the 1936 Games in Berlin, where the goal was to validate a flawed domestic system before the world? Or, in the coming year, will we see whether Beijing is ready to mark the Games as a watershed for China's constructive role in the community of nations?

              The writer, a professor at Georgetown University, was a White House Asia adviser from 2004 to 2007. He is the author of the forthcoming book "Sports Diplomacy in Asia and the Beijing Olympics."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by astralis View Post
                wkllaw,



                good god, beijing toilets?!? the less said about those the better.
                True, I never liked public toilets, but ....

                Okay, I see your point.
                Those who can't change become extinct.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by HKDan View Post
                  When the world's most populous country hosts the biggest sporting event around, it is about more than sports. China will seek to portray the Games as Beijing's coming-out party, showcasing its rapid economic growth and prosperity, as the 1988 (Seoul) Games did for South Korea. Beijing has been transformed in preparation -- from building a new airport to razing traditional "hutong" neighborhoods. A million cars will be banned from the city and 200 million trees will have been planted to absorb carbon dioxide.

                  Just as the Tokyo Olympics in 1964 closed the book on wartime Japan, the Beijing Games will end China's past century as the "sick man" of Asia and open a new chapter as a modern, advanced nation. The symbolism of China's first astronaut in space carrying the Beijing Olympic banner could not have been a stronger statement of the nation's aspirations.
                  It's going to take a lot more than the usual Communist propaganda stunts and Potemkin Villages to transform China from it's current incarnation of a rampantly corrupt and gargantuan counterfeit workshop into a modern advanced nation.

                  It is hard to imagine sweeping changes in China along the lines of what took place in South Korea, where the 1988 Games played a key role in the authoritarian government's decision to relent to democratization pressures.
                  The author is comparing South Korea of the 1980's to China?

                  Brilliant. Delusional, but brilliant.

                  Movement on trade, currency reform and product safety would reflect Beijing's interests in avoiding trade wars.
                  That would be a godamn good place to start.

                  The test of whether the Olympics change China will come over human rights and responsible foreign policy, particularly in Africa. China has felt the pressure -- and responded by releasing a prominent democracy activist shortly before the International Olympic Committee awarded Beijing the Games. It has also, for the first time, codified the state's constitutional responsibility to safeguard and respect human rights. These are encouraging steps.
                  More propaganda stunts.
                  Show me consistant tangible proof put into practice, not paper tigers.

                  The question is: Will the 2008 Games be like the 1936 Games in Berlin, where the goal was to validate a flawed domestic system before the world? Or, in the coming year, will we see whether Beijing is ready to mark the Games as a watershed for China's constructive role in the community of nations?
                  In other words, can the tiger change it's stripes...?

                  I'm guessing it'll be more like the '36 games.

                  China can't and won't change for the long run. Only long enough to get the crowds of foreign devils out of the stadiums and onto their plane ride home.
                  “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    tophatter,

                    It's going to take a lot more than the usual Communist propaganda stunts and Potemkin Villages to transform China from it's current incarnation of a rampantly corrupt and gargantuan counterfeit workshop into a modern advanced nation.
                    yeah, it will take a lot more than that...it will take massive economic growth and educational expansion. both of which china is undergoing.

                    The author is comparing South Korea of the 1980's to China?

                    Brilliant. Delusional, but brilliant.
                    actually, that's not much different from the conventional wisdom for most foreign policy professionals- they put china's relative area around late 1970s korea or taiwan, both in terms of growth rate and in terms of freedoms enjoyed. do remember south korea's kwangju massacre, and note the scale/when that occurred. also remember when taiwan lifted martial law.

                    That would be a godamn good place to start.
                    that's an example of capitalism to the hilt- ah, the days before government intervention.

                    More propaganda stunts.
                    Show me consistant tangible proof put into practice, not paper tigers.
                    well, that's easy enough. i used to work with the congressional executive commission on china, which deals exclusively with human rights in china. they will tell you that there is a big level of difference between what china does today and what china did ten-fifteen years ago. for one, they are far more vulnerable/open to economic pressure and incentives. look at the example of john kamm, founder of the Dui Hua initiative. i had the opportunity to speak to him, and he will tell you (as he told me) that the difference is tangible.

                    certainly there's a huge, huge amount of work that needs to be done in this aspect. using the olympics to pressure beijing on this should help the process along, and should not be discounted as mere window-dressing.

                    China can't and won't change for the long run. Only long enough to get the crowds of foreign devils out of the stadiums and onto their plane ride home.
                    the developments of the past 30 years should tell you that view is false.
                    Last edited by astralis; 08 Aug 07,, 18:46.
                    There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."- Isaac Asimov

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Astralis,
                      I'm afraid that my weekly/daily business dealings with our fraternal socialist comrades of the People's Republic of China have left me a little jaded.

                      Put frankly, it's like dealing with mentally-handicapped 4 year olds from another planet that have no concept of international business practices, ethics, morals or anything else resembling honesty.
                      “He was the most prodigious personification of all human inferiorities. He was an utterly incapable, unadapted, irresponsible, psychopathic personality, full of empty, infantile fantasies, but cursed with the keen intuition of a rat or a guttersnipe. He represented the shadow, the inferior part of everybody’s personality, in an overwhelming degree, and this was another reason why they fell for him.”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by TopHatter View Post
                        Astralis,
                        I'm afraid that my weekly/daily business dealings with our fraternal socialist comrades of the People's Republic of China have left me a little jaded.

                        Put frankly, it's like dealing with mentally-handicapped 4 year olds from another planet that have no concept of international business practices, ethics, morals or anything else resembling honesty.
                        TopHatter,

                        Have you ever considered to change a job and don’t need to deal with those annoying Chinese?

                        I am not going to say everything in China is rosy. That is not true. Sometimes, I also fell frustrated about certain things in China. But I don't wear a pair of coloured eye glasses and can see the two sides of the China. I see its bright side as well as its dark side. But you wear a pair of coloured eye glasses and can only see its dark side. Your description of China is biased.

                        We are witnessing the Chinese “Golden Rush” right now. China is a “Wild West” on an entirely different scale and is in present day. The large part of the worlds including yourself are also joining this Chinese “Golden Rush” to amplify its magnitude.

                        Every country experienced similar thing. America experienced its “Wild West” era. You try to behave like an adult teaching and blaming the young kids. You told them that we knew this is wrong and we did it, you shouldn't do it again. Sorry, that doesn't work. The young kids have their right to make their mistakes.

                        Right now, China is the “Chosen One” to bear the blame for the action of the large part of the worlds including yourself.

                        Please calm down and think it a little bit.

                        You are doing business with China. What language do you use in the business? Did they lean English or you learned Chinese? Did you try to understand what they think about you? Did you know how much profit Wal-Mart gives to Chinese companies to buy things from China? Are you sure that you are always the fair one?

                        If everything is as dark as you described, why so many people including yourself still do business with them? Do you make money doing business with them? Do you always get cheated by them and still want to get cheated by them again and again for fun?

                        What is the reason those who are "mentally-handicapped 4 year olds from another planet that have no concept of international business practices, ethics, morals or anything else resembling honesty" attracted you and so many other “honesty people” to do business with them?

                        Will mentally healthy people work with them for so long and never consider changing a job?

                        Will the bussiness deals you signed with them further increase the problems existing today?

                        Sorry, TopHatter, I really don't want to offend you or anyone else. I have agrued with you before on China issues. I can't agree your view on China and Chinese people. You got to view China from a historical perspective. You got to understand may be some of the reason that you are doing business with them is because they have those problems and your company (not you) wants to take advantage of them.
                        Last edited by Zeng; 09 Aug 07,, 02:19.
                        I am here for exchanging opinions.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          ^^^
                          I lived in Beijing for a little bit more than 10 years. I love that city, culture, history, park, museum and people. I had no problem to smile there. When I was college student in Beijing, many of us were so poor and didn’t want to buy the ticket to Summer Palace, we ran there from our school in the afternoon after it stopped checking ticket. The sunset was so beautiful in the Summer Palace, once you saw it, you will never forget. I remember that it was not allowed to swim in the Kunming Lake, but we hided there until dark and started to swim in the lake under the moon and stars sometimes with lovely girls. We also ride bicycles to everywhere in or close to Beijing, Forbidden City, Ming tomb, Great wall, Tiantan, Beihai, Xiangshang, Fangshang, Miyeng, Chengde, ...... lot of happy memories. .

                          Most of my life up to now lives in cities. I visited lot of Chinese cities and villages and some cities and villages in Africa, Japan, Europe and North America, never really feel disliking any of them and never bothered by the restroom problems. Detroit, DC and Wisconsin may be three exceptions; because I missed road and drove into not so friendly neighborhoods in Detroit and DC, it was scary. But when I got to the downtown, everything became fine. I love DC very much. I got a speeding ticket in Wisconsin on highway. It gave me $160 fine and 4 points for just 13 miles/hour over the limit. I got speeding tickets from other states too, but never get so much fine, especially not so many points. Oh god, my insurance will go a lot higher. I don’t complain the restrooms but I complain if my life is in danger or it causes me too much for a speeding ticket.

                          You guys are probably over civilized. Ever visited Isle Royale national park or hiked any part of the Appalachian Trail, Tail of Tears, Lewis & Clark Tail, Grand Canyon trail, ever run on Sahara desert, ever stepped on Africa grassland? Where are the restrooms and sanitation facilities?

                          If you visit Walnut Canyon National Monument in Arizona, IIRC, on the trail head, you may see a sign “The cliff dwelling is not restroom” or something like that. Someone must have used cliff dwelling as restroom. That site is not so special comparing to other native Indian sites, but that sign made me never forget that site.

                          We spend a couple days in Voyageurs national park in Minnesota recently. The park is fantastic if you have a boat. We don’t have boat but rented one. Our civilized crowd here on WAB probably can not use those open air restrooms on the park. But I love them and hope that we can have them here in the city just with a little bit cover up.
                          Last edited by Zeng; 09 Aug 07,, 02:40.
                          I am here for exchanging opinions.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            [QUOTE=glyn;395791]
                            Originally posted by THL View Post


                            Is this a big problem in Beijing, these unguided toilets?


                            Some years ago an experimental rocket fell on a public toilet in Beijing and there were a surprisingly large number of fatalities. These establishments must be huge.
                            Then I am definitely not going there - the last thing I need to worry about is a random rocket falling on my head while amidst relief.
                            "To dream of the person you would like to be is to waste the person you are."-Sholem Asch

                            "I always turn to the sports page first, which records people's accomplishments. The front page has nothing but man's failures."-Earl Warren

                            "I didn't intend for this to take on a political tone. I'm just here for the drugs."-Nancy Reagan, when asked a political question at a "Just Say No" rally

                            "He no play-a da game, he no make-a da rules."-Earl Butz, on the Pope's attitude toward birth control

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I have to say that having lived in Taipei in the 1980s and Shanghai in the early 2000s(is that what you call it?) I really have a hard time explaining significant differences between the two. They really are that much alike. Thats not to say that China doesn't have a hard road in front of it, just that often the negatives are frequently overrepresented and the positives ignored. I have posted on this board before about the changes I have seen firsthand in censorship over the past few years. The changes have been MASSIVE. I now daily read the NYTimes, watch BBC news on TV, and last week bought a copy of Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer in The Beijing Airport(if you recall, that book was banned in many parts of the US for decades) There is still a great deal of room for improvement, but things are most definitely moving in the right direction. Doing business in China can be frustrating, but at least in my experience there is a tremendous can do attitute that I find very refreshing.

                              *I think I should probably mention that anything bad that you read about China is most likely based in truth, but those stories do not represent the complete picture. Kind of like all the attention that crime in the US gets in news media. Yes it happened, but its not like that everywhere.
                              Last edited by HKDan; 09 Aug 07,, 08:21.

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