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MarquezRazor
01 Aug 07,, 06:48
I was reading a book -The Fist of God- by Frederick Forsyth.The story is based around the Gulf War.In the story there were some anecdotes about the interaction between the British and US soldiers.I dont know whether these are true or not,there are many experienced members here who will be able to tell...but Forsyth is usually very factually correct so I am guessing they might well be true.

Anyway here goes:

1.The USAF and the RAF had the same maps and communication was very informal.On a training mission a Tornado was asked whether it had reached a certain point,when the Brit pilot replied that he was still over MMFD.As time went by many American pilots heard the location repeated...and looked in their maps but couldnt find that area named MMFD.They thought it could be the KKMC for King Khaled Military City but that was discounted.Eventually through a Brit pilot they came to know that MMFD stood for "miles and miles of fckin desert".

2.The UK MoD supposedly placed an order for half a million of condoms for the Brit soldiers in the Gulf.The US soldiers were thinking that the Brits might know something that would explain the ordering of such huge numbers in the desert.Later they found out that the Brits had used the condoms to cap their gun-barrels to keep them clean.

3.Another one which I had heard before in WAB itself.;)

Drinking was prohibited ..it being the month of Ramadan.The Brit soldiers recieved large crates of shampoo.So ppl wondered wherfrom they would get enough water to utilise those shampoo.Later the British soldiers were caught sitting in the shades of their tanks and taking swigs from their shampoo bottles.

4.During the build-up the French defence minister was jean piere Chevenement who appeared to have a sympathy for Iraq and asked the French allied commander to pass on all the allied planned decisions to Paris.the defence minister,at that time was also the chairman of France-Iraq Friendship Society!:eek:So the french commander,General Michel Roquejoffre was excluded from all planning councils.Later the defence minister was replaced by Peirre Joxe when this situation ended.:rolleyes:

I found those quite humourous.:biggrin: The above are written from the British view-point.May be our experienced members here would share some funy stories as well.

gunnut
01 Aug 07,, 10:11
USAF General Chuck Horner, leader of the allied air power during the Gulf War, was tasked to destroy Iraqi ground forces, especially tanks, before the ground war phase was to start. His superiors stated to him explicitly not to refer to this mission as "tank plinking." So he made sure all his pilots refer to this mission as "tank plinking."

dundonrl
19 Aug 07,, 11:08
I know from talking to my dad in Vietnam condoms were used too cap the end of rifle muzzles.. also, the old alchohol in a shampoo etc bottle has been around for quite awhile.. (being in a "dry" Navy, it's used onboard my ship from time too time)

TopHatter
19 Aug 07,, 20:23
I know from talking to my dad in Vietnam condoms were used too cap the end of rifle muzzles.. also, the old alchohol in a shampoo etc bottle has been around for quite awhile.. (being in a "dry" Navy, it's used onboard my ship from time too time)

I agree with dundonrl, a lot of those stories are probably apocryphal, as I've read plenty of U.S. accounts of troops using condoms long before the Gulf War to keep their rifle barrels clean and also the various methods used to bring in alcoholic beverages to Saudi Arabia (like Listerine bottles, not to mention making their own right there on the spot.)

MarquezRazor
20 Aug 07,, 16:15
But why on earth are the French like this?:eek: :rolleyes: :confused:

Stan187
20 Aug 07,, 19:00
But why on earth are the French like this?:eek: :rolleyes: :confused:

A long line of bad genetics and unfortunate socio-cultural development.

Gun Grape
21 Aug 07,, 03:37
4.During the build-up the French defence minister was jean piere Chevenement who appeared to have a sympathy for Iraq and asked the French allied commander to pass on all the allied planned decisions to Paris.the defence minister,at that time was also the chairman of France-Iraq Friendship Society!:eek:So the french commander,General Michel Roquejoffre was excluded from all planning councils.Later the defence minister was replaced by Peirre Joxe when this situation ended.:rolleyes:
.

I doubt that actually happened, Gen Roquejoffre not being in on the planning.
The 6th Light Armored Div, with the 82d Airborne's 2d Bde attached,
were the extreme left flank of the "Left Hook". They had some mission critical task (As-Salman airbase in Iraq)that you don't just wing-it.

Also French AF planes were integrated in the ATO and flew CAS and reconnaissance missions.

If they did that without being in on the planning, All I can say is that they must have one heck of a military.

The hang up had nothing to do with the French military "Spying" for the Iraqis. There was disagreement on French troops being under US Command. This was the First time that French Soldiers had deployed (except FFL) outside of the home country. Same argument that they had about NATO control of French troops.

Lots of talk between the 2 Presidents which was OBE when Gen Roquejoffre placed his Units under Stormin Norman.

Repatriated Canuck
21 Aug 07,, 08:11
I want more stories!!!

MarquezRazor
21 Aug 07,, 17:44
A long line of bad genetics and unfortunate socio-cultural development.
Interesting theory.Genetics..hmm..could be a reason.Socio-cultural development?Not sure on that one..how are the French socio-culturally too much different from any other western european country?

MarquezRazor
21 Aug 07,, 17:47
I doubt that actually happened, Gen Roquejoffre not being in on the planning.
The 6th Light Armored Div, with the 82d Airborne's 2d Bde attached,
were the extreme left flank of the "Left Hook". They had some mission critical task (As-Salman airbase in Iraq)that you don't just wing-it.

Also French AF planes were integrated in the ATO and flew CAS and reconnaissance missions.

If they did that without being in on the planning, All I can say is that they must have one heck of a military.

The hang up had nothing to do with the French military "Spying" for the Iraqis. There was disagreement on French troops being under US Command. This was the First time that French Soldiers had deployed (except FFL) outside of the home country. Same argument that they had about NATO control of French troops.

Lots of talk between the 2 Presidents which was OBE when Gen Roquejoffre placed his Units under Stormin Norman.
Well sir,you could be right.Just that Frederick Forsyth has been very accurate in the past...and even humiliated the Brit govt. once or twice by exposing facts.

Btw,were you there during GW?

Bluesman
21 Aug 07,, 18:18
In 2000, when I was assigned to Operation SOUTHERN WATCH at Al Kharj, Prince Sultan Royal Suadi Air Force Base, we were explicitly told to have NO CONTACT with the French during our in-brief. We were not to accept rides offered to/from Ops Town, we were not to sit with them at meals, we were not to associate with them off-duty AT ALL.

And the reason was explicitly stated: the entire French contingent held an intel-collection brief. They were there for one reason: to spy on us, and that's what they did. They were excluded from ALL briefings, and anything they needed to know re: life on PSAB, they were breifed apart in a sanitized version, as befitted their status of an adversary collection threat.

And it got worse: there WERE examples of French contact and intel sharing with Iraqi military, DURING the period of actual engagements between Iraqi and Alied air component forces. Let me make this clear: the French were discussing Allied operations while those ops were being engaged by Iraqi air defense forces.

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/political-discussions/6282-france-enemy-democracy.html (Check out my post #12 in this thread from waaaay back...)

Repatriated Canuck
22 Aug 07,, 05:55
I'm not surprised, doesn't Monsier Chirac have some friends in high places in Syria for example?

I forget it was awhile ago I read that.

Stan187
22 Aug 07,, 06:47
Interesting theory.Genetics..hmm..could be a reason.Socio-cultural development?Not sure on that one..how are the French socio-culturally too much different from any other western european country?

Jokes are jokes, sir. Don't read too deeply into one-liners.

MarquezRazor
23 Aug 07,, 19:56
In 2000, when I was assigned to Operation SOUTHERN WATCH at Al Kharj, Prince Sultan Royal Suadi Air Force Base, we were explicitly told to have NO CONTACT with the French during our in-brief. We were not to accept rides offered to/from Ops Town, we were not to sit with them at meals, we were not to associate with them off-duty AT ALL.

And the reason was explicitly stated: the entire French contingent held an intel-collection brief. They were there for one reason: to spy on us, and that's what they did. They were excluded from ALL briefings, and anything they needed to know re: life on PSAB, they were breifed apart in a sanitized version, as befitted their status of an adversary collection threat.

And it got worse: there WERE examples of French contact and intel sharing with Iraqi military, DURING the period of actual engagements between Iraqi and Alied air component forces. Let me make this clear: the French were discussing Allied operations while those ops were being engaged by Iraqi air defense forces.

http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/political-discussions/6282-france-enemy-democracy.html (Check out my post #12 in this thread from waaaay back...)
Ah..so that is true indeed.Thanks for confirming that MSgt.Always glad to hear from the experts.

MarquezRazor
23 Aug 07,, 19:57
Jokes are jokes, sir. Don't read too deeply into one-liners.
Number one,I am not a "Sir"

Number two..oh come on Stan..I thought we had a nice theory going...:biggrin:

pdf27
23 Aug 07,, 20:23
Few courtesy of my one-time Gliding instructor, who was an Army Air Corps Lynx pilot during the 1990 Gulf War.

1) Prior to everything kicking off, the pilots helped out on the ground driving trucks and the like. This was largely done by night, using convoy lights (small white light shining on to the differential - only visible from behind and at close range). The pilots were equipped with NVGs, something the truck drivers were not - so one of them slowed down slightly until he was about half a mile behind the truck in front, then switched off his convoy light and floored it. Cue some very rude comments over the radio!

2) Also prior to things kicking off. When deployed, they didn't have enough lorries with them so were on the lookout for more. One day flying over the desert they spotted an abandoned, broken down US lorry. Landed next to it, took a look and figured out what they needed. Then promptly flew off to the nearest US base, asked for and were given the parts they needed. Flew back to the lorry, fixed it, and one of the crew drove it back to their base. They used it for the rest of the war, but were told to return it to the US before heading back to the UK. Naturally they sold it to one of the Saudis, who didn't seem to mind in the slightest that it was blatantly stolen property in a kingdom that chops your hands off for such things...

3) Towards the end of the war, with Iraqis surrendering left, right and centre. Landed to take the surrender of a couple of Iraqis in a set of bunkers. One of them was beckoning him to come into a bunker, so he got his pistol out, waved it around in an "if you try anything I'll slot you" manner and followed. Turned out the Iraqi had been saving his best uniform to surrender in, and wanted to fetch it and get changed. Once he had, he was more than happy to surrender.
Incidentally, he mentioned that the Iraqis were very happy to be prisoners in general - the coalition forces treated, paid, fed and housed them better than their own army.

sappersgt
23 Aug 07,, 21:13
Few courtesy of my one-time Gliding instructor, who was an Army Air Corps Lynx pilot during the 1990 Gulf War.

Incidentally, he mentioned that the Iraqis were very happy to be prisoners in general - the coalition forces treated, paid, fed and housed them better than their own army.

Paid? Does the Geneva Convention say we've got to pay POWs? If so so then at what rate do they accrue pay? The Iraqi Army rate or the much, much higher USA rate? I know you can collect unemployment upon your discharge from the army.:confused: :eek:

Cactus
23 Aug 07,, 21:49
Post War Stories

If you go to some shops in Gold Souk or Kuwaiti Souk in Riyadh, you can still find incredibly expensive jewellery, antiques and fine watches dumped by Kuwaiti refugees at 1/100th their value.

All over cities in Saudi Arabia you will find huge blocks of empty apartment complexes built to house Kuwaiti refugees. If you want to see an example of conspicuous consumption that is it - fully furnished apartments left completely unused in cities where thousands of immigrant workers live huddled in squalid basements and outhouses.

Tens of thousands of US Marines' desert chocolate-chip BDUs were first seen with Saudi police (usually only the trousers), and now I think they have made their way into poorer Muslim nations' armies which contributed troops. Same thing with thousands of M9s, though its harder to see for obvious reasons.

Amazed that I haven't heard the M113 story yet ::grin::

pdf27
24 Aug 07,, 07:32
Paid? Does the Geneva Convention say we've got to pay POWs? If so so then at what rate do they accrue pay? The Iraqi Army rate or the much, much higher USA rate? I know you can collect unemployment upon your discharge from the army.:confused: :eek:
They have to be given an allowance to enable them to buy necessities (soap, etc. IIRC). This turned out in fact to be more than the Iraqi army had been paying them, despite being a very small amount.