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  • AShM Question.

    I know very little about anything "Navy." I was wondering if there were any AShMs in existance that employed the same approach to hitting a ship as the Hellfire ATGM.

    For those who don't know what that means, the hellfire missile approaches target tanks in a unique manner. It goes towards the tank and then when its at a certain distance from the tank, it goes vertically up in the air and comes down on the tank from the top.

    Now if an AShM did the same, would it be able to avoide those anti-missile guns and maybe even other missiles trying to hit it? Will coming down from the top sink the ship or just kill more sailors?

    Sensible input will be appreciated.

    -3BSD
    He who praises you for what you lack wishes to take from you what you have.
    - Don Juan Manuel

  • #2
    The Harpoon already does this. It flys a few meters off the ground and then pops up and then comes down right into the ship. So do many other Anti-Ship missiles.

    It makes it harder to hit but the SeaRAM had a 95% success rate against a variaty or targets dueing many different manouvers and different speeds.

    Comment


    • #3
      I see. So I was trying to re-invent the wheel. Oh well, I'm glad the idea came to be before I knew that there were AShMs already doing it. :D

      -3BSD
      He who praises you for what you lack wishes to take from you what you have.
      - Don Juan Manuel

      Comment


      • #4
        To: [3BSD]

        well, I'm not an expert at this and I don't know why but for all I know, the higher the missile flies, the easier it is for CIWS to hit it.

        Designers of AShCMs are trying to make the missile to fly as low as possible so it could avoid detection. The Hellfire missiles go straigh up during the terminal phase because a tank is the weakest from the top, and that's the only reason. Now the terminal manuver of a AShCM involves doing 20G turns to throw off the CIWs, but going high up into the air? I'm not sure about that.
        "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed" - President Eisenhower

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        • #5
          well, I'm not an expert at this and I don't know why but for all I know, the higher the missile flies, the easier it is for CIWS to hit it.

          Designers of AShCMs are trying to make the missile to fly as low as possible so it could avoid detection. The Hellfire missiles go straigh up during the terminal phase because a tank is the weakest from the top, and that's the only reason. Now the terminal manuver of a AShCM involves doing 20G turns to throw off the CIWs, but going high up into the air? I'm not sure about that.
          That is only so it avoids detection by the Ships radar not the radar on the CIWS. The more manouvering it does the harder it is to hit with CIWS.

          Comment


          • #6
            The terminal pop up's primary reason for existence is to get the missile to hit a good spot at a good angle.

            If it didn't pop up, it would just plow a big hole in the side of the hull, leaving the top side undamaged, and not threaten the water tight integrity of the hull(which is hard to do at all with a missile of any kind).

            At least if the missile slams the superstructure, it will take out most of the radars, maybe the bridge. That's the theory behind the pop up manuever.

            Phalanx(most CIWS in general) probably is unaffected by anything but the most violent of target manuevering. Phalanx for instance is slaved to a phased array millimeter wave AESA radar. It is a very precise system, and the Phalanx mount has a very high traverse and elevation rate. Coupled with Phalanx's ROF of 4,500rpm, it is unlikely that a terminal pop up would make much difference at all. If anything, it will just expose it to the Phalanx(or whatever) for more time.

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            • #7
              What about LGB's? If they were stealth coated they could be used as effective AShM's, couldn't they?
              Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

              Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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              • #8
                To: [bigross86]

                yea only that your plane will be shot down before you even get close to the target ship.
                "Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed" - President Eisenhower

                Comment


                • #9
                  In all likelyhood that is true. Stealth reduces the RCS, it doesn't make it go away.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    US Warplanes used laser guided bombs on the Libyan navy in the 80's, as well as the Iranian navy.

                    In 1991, an S-3 Viking used Mk82 500lb GP bombs to destroy an Iraqi patrol vessel.

                    Against a ship with a comprehensive defensive suite however, it would be unwise to get that close.

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                    • #11
                      Why? Toss the LGB's from about 100,000 feet. Plenty of gliding room there. Have a laser designator somewhere beyond AShM range. As long as there is LOS it should work...
                      Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                      Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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                      • #12
                        Alright, how about this:

                        An AShM that flies the usual "sea skimming" flight towards the target vessel and then when it is about 500m from the ship, dives into the water and goes into torpedo mode and either hits the ship and detonates or explodes on proximity.

                        I'm not saying that this is a good idea now and today, but in the future there could be AShMs like this, no?

                        -3BSD
                        He who praises you for what you lack wishes to take from you what you have.
                        - Don Juan Manuel

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          There is one like that. It's an old Soviet thing, SS-N-16 "Stallion", I think it was. Anybody here know what I'm talking about?
                          Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                          Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            An AShM that flies the usual "sea skimming" flight towards the target vessel and then when it is about 500m from the ship, dives into the water and goes into torpedo mode and either hits the ship and detonates or explodes on proximity.

                            I'm not saying that this is a good idea now and today, but in the future there could be AShMs like this, no?
                            Well if you made a missile that could survive going from 800 mph to about 50 mph in about 2 seconds, then yah I guess in theory you could do this.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yeah, I was right. SS-N-16 Stallion. Quote from FAS.org:

                              The SS-N-16 (Stallion) is a Russian 650mm calibre anti-ship missile capable of being fitted with a 10-20 kT warhead or a Type 40 torpedo. The SS-N-16 Stallion ASW system was deployed in 1979-1981. This non strategic weapon has a range variously estimated at between 50 kilometers and 100-120 kilometers. The SS-N-16 concept is a unique antiship cruise missile that can carry alternatively a high-explosive charge to destroy surface ships or a torpedo for use against submarines.
                              USA Code Name:
                              SS-N-16A - Torpedo Warhead
                              SS-N-16B - Nuclear Depth Charge
                              Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

                              Abusing Yellow is meant to be a labor of love, not something you sell to the highest bidder.

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