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execrable
12 Jun 07,, 13:20
Hello, I am in progress with a model of General Patton (mentioned in model inventory thread) and have come to a stop with various items of clothing - his boots are non standard (or are they)?

Does anyone have any info or links on where I can get better images in various views of his trademark boots? Where they bespoke or bought from a known manufacturer.

Pistols, lots is said about his ivory handled pistols. Does anyone know who made them and what model number / version?

Also, if there are any other items that have particular peculiarities could you leave some info / links please?

Rustybattleship - I will post progress images but I am trying to get webspace / webhosting sorted out first. Presently I have progress shots but don't want to just post willy-nilly, quality rather than quantity.

Thank you in advance for any information!

texasjohn
13 Jun 07,, 00:32
A start anyway.

Patton Museum Online: Official General Patton Museum of Cavalry and Armor featuring General George S. Patton Jr. Memorabilia & History (http://www.generalpatton.org/)

RustyBattleship
13 Jun 07,, 01:55
Hello, I am in progress with a model of General Patton (mentioned in model inventory thread) and have come to a stop with various items of clothing - his boots are non standard (or are they)?

Does anyone have any info or links on where I can get better images in various views of his trademark boots? Where they bespoke or bought from a known manufacturer.

Pistols, lots is said about his ivory handled pistols. Does anyone know who made them and what model number / version?

Rustybattleship - I will post progress images but I am trying to get webspace / webhosting sorted out first. Presently I have progress shots but don't want to just post willy-nilly, quality rather than quantity.

Thank you in advance for any information!

As I recall, Pattons "boots" were not boots at all. Instead they were Army issue leather Leggins for Cavalry officers. Patton wore leggins like that during Pershings hunt for Pancho Villa and in WW I when he was a tank officer with French built Renault tanks. My late father-in-law wore leggins exactly like that when he was a Cavalry Officer in the Hungarian Real Army before WW II. Then when Germany took over he had to change to Jack Boots and a command car.

Patton was not one to dress conventionally BUT did use authorized Army uniform equipment including his snake lock belt buckle. It was similar to officer's buckles issued in WW I and were copied after Civil War buckles.

The gun he carried on his right side was a Colt Single Action Army chambered in .45 Long Colt. It was his favorite gun that he carried even in Mexico and took out a couple of Villa's "soldiers" with it. The other gun was a Smith & Wesson .38 special on a standard S&W "K" frame.

Since Colt S.A. Army pistols were standard issue at one time as well as the .38 S&W (replaced by the 1911 Colt .45 ACP) he was never out of uniform. A bit dated perhaps, but even in WW II we still had some mounted troops that wore leather leggins and some carried S.A. revolvers as long as the Army kept supplying them with ammo.

Also remember that at the start of WW II our regular troops did not have 9-inch boots as of today. They wore a high top shoe with Canvas leggins for brush and thorn protection. Later the boots were replaced with another type of high top with a leather shin guard that buckled on the sides. It wasn't until later in the war when the "Paratrooper" boots were made in enough quantities to issue to everybody.

According to the movie with George C. Scott playing Patton (though he was far too short) the General also carried a .380 pocket pistol under his shirt.

Not surprising as General Douglas MacArthur carried a double barreled .41 caliber Derringer under his.

texasjohn
13 Jun 07,, 05:29
Rusty,

That was an excellent post. I did not know about the canvas leggins. My dad who was in the Royal Indian Army during WWII also has those. Except in the desert (8th Army) They would have been hot as hell!!:biggrin:

execrable
13 Jun 07,, 11:19
Rusty... I'm speechless.

Thank you so much. I will dedicate the model to you when it's done. Also, if you want a resin copy (I never bother painting my models) you can have one free.

Again, thank you SO much. texasjohn, thank you too. Priceless information.

RustyBattleship
13 Jun 07,, 20:42
Ooops. My error. Pattons S&W was in .357 magnum vs. .38 special. Found a great site showing his guns including his .380 hide-out pistols.

General Patton's Pistols - Colt 45 and SW 357 (http://www.pattonhq.com/pistols.html)

Will be coming up later with some pics I've found on leggins. AND a model of Patton (somebody beat you to it).

RustyBattleship
13 Jun 07,, 21:12
Hope these pics will help.

dave lukins
14 Jun 07,, 00:22
Rusty.. given a choice, who would you follow into battle ... Patton or MacArthur?:rolleyes: (Hypothetical of course!! as you are Navy)

sappersgt
14 Jun 07,, 00:30
Rusty.. given a choice, who would you follow into battle ... Patton or MacArthur?:rolleyes: (Hypothetical of course!! as you are Navy)

I don't know about Rusty but I don't think you could find a bigger magnet for enemy fire than those two! ;) :biggrin:

RustyBattleship
14 Jun 07,, 02:41
Rusty.. given a choice, who would you follow into battle ... Patton or MacArthur?:rolleyes: (Hypothetical of course!! as you are Navy)
None of the above, especially MacArthur. Nimitz had a better idea of beating Japan by destroying its Navy first. The islands could have been taken easier by setting up chow lines for the Japanese upon surrender when they got hungry enough.

No kidding. One of my co-workers was a Marine demolition expert (also served on two Battleships). He said the Japanese soldiers were so starved they would sneak into our chow lines for food. They didn't disguise themselves very well but we felt sorry for them.

Also, if you were in the back row watching a movie and heard giggling behind you, don't turn around. The Japanese were also watching Donald Duck.

Personally, I think H. Norman Swarzkoph was our best General of the 20th century.

zraver
14 Jun 07,, 06:55
Creighton Abrams was probalby the best of the last 100 years but America had so many greats that it is hard to say.

execrable
18 Jun 07,, 10:55
AND a model of Patton (somebody beat you to it).

I never thought I'd be first, this was something I'm doing for me. Done far too many "creature" and spaceship models recently and so am challenging myself to a human and a very recognisable one at that.

Thanks again to all for the info.

RustyBattleship
21 Jun 07,, 07:25
I may have been a tad off on what Patton's footwear was. I recalled the calf length tops as leggins like my father-in-law wore when he was a Cavalry Officer. I used to have them but apparently disposed of them because they were far too small for me (he was also a professional jockey and I'm 5-11). So I can't take a picture of them for you.

But there was a type of Cavalry boot that looked like leggins and is claimed to be Patton's favorite dress-up foot wear.

I also found an ebay item of the type of General Officer's buckle he wore.

execrable
05 Jul 07,, 15:53
Thanks for the pics Rusty - they answer a drawing problem I've been having working from this image -

photos 53 (http://www.pattonuncovered.com/html/photos_53.html)

I loved the story of patton urinating into the Rhine and I've been working from the pic above - however as you might see, the details are very blurred.

Apologies for long delay, it's been incredibly busy here but I will get to some serious drawing and modeling in the next two weeks.

execrable
05 Jul 07,, 16:07
A couple of images from the metal workbench after I'd brazed the underneath Metal Structure together.

(Nothing exciting so far but progress cheers me on...)

execrable
02 May 08,, 11:45
Finally getting some time to work on this model again (1 year break... :mad: )

I am struggling with two versions of Patton's boots -

Boot 1 (side view Motorcycle boot) from this source

Patton (1970), General Patton Boots, other replicas (http://www.yourprops.com/view_item.php?movie_prop=9752)

And the same pic as suggested by Rusty Battleship - boot 2 from this source

MotorCowboy's Store Policy :: George Patton Cavalry Boots Riding, motor patrol (http://www.motorcowboy.com/product/NEW32/_George_Patton_Cavalry_Boots_Riding_motor_patrol.h tml)

Any help choosing the more realistic would be appreciated - the detailing differences are small but extremely important.

Many thanks if you bother replying. :)

RustyBattleship
05 May 08,, 04:32
Finally getting some time to work on this model again (1 year break... :mad: )

I am struggling with two versions of Patton's boots -

Boot 1 (side view Motorcycle boot) from this source

Patton (1970), General Patton Boots, other replicas (http://www.yourprops.com/view_item.php?movie_prop=9752)

And the same pic as suggested by Rusty Battleship - boot 2 from this source

MotorCowboy's Store Policy :: George Patton Cavalry Boots Riding, motor patrol (http://www.motorcowboy.com/product/NEW32/_George_Patton_Cavalry_Boots_Riding_motor_patrol.h tml)

Any help choosing the more realistic would be appreciated - the detailing differences are small but extremely important.

Many thanks if you bother replying. :)

Researching some photos on the Internet, I ran across what I think you are looking for. The overall photo is the group picture, then I cropped it and touched it up a bit for contrast on his boots.

Therefore, at least when THIS picture was taken, he was wearing cavalry/motorcycle boots with the SMALL buckles.

RustyBattleship
05 May 08,, 04:53
Just for the heck of it, I copied this other photo of Patton wearing tall Cavalry boots. The OLD kind that civilian surveyors and explorers used to wear as well.

They lace all the way up in front with (believe it or not) a SINGLE shoe lace. They are time consuming to do so as I have a pair. But they are great boots for day long survey work (as I did on my land in Oregon) as they give EXCELLENT calf support and the legs do not tire as easily.

Ryan Bailey
08 May 08,, 02:27
The US has indeed been blessed with outstanding leadership from the General Officer Corps since before Washington.

Definitely see the Patton Museum if in the Ft. Knox area. My favourite part was his Cadillac.

The General's style of boots are called cavalry boots or cav boots and are actual horse riding boots although they have a similar appearance to leggings.

While his pistols & boots were more or less custom made, like those of many gentlemen in his day, Patton's style of boots are on sale through the danner company & others and many US Army Cavalry officers wore them in black and now in buck. I find them beautiful but excessive for my personal taste. They retail at c.1200 USD.

I found a pair of 10" black tanker boots in size 12 1/2 W at the surplus store next to Zion's near the Radcliffe gate. For only ten dollars they were a great find even though I take a thirteen regularly. They polished up great. Now I'll be in the market for a pair of buck tanker boots for ACU wear, although I understand a comfortable pair is hard to come by.

Nice work on your replicas by the way. I believe that similar boots to the General's are still sported by the Corps of Cadets of Texas A & M, who wear WWII spec uniforms. No one will soon forget the image of them marching in khakis with cavalry boots in President Bush's Inaugural Parade 21 January 2001, in the rain, or in whites at Mardi Gras in New Orleans. The cadets there take much pride in being afforded the honour of buying those boots which they cannot wear upon commissioning & cost more than any Army spec boot. That's a fair measure of their Esprit de Corps. I went through NALC & MOBC with Texas A & M cadets and they gained my highest respect. Are there any Aggies out there who could comment further on the state of the boots in question ?

execrable
13 May 08,, 00:09
Researching some photos on the Internet, I ran across what I think you are looking for. The overall photo is the group picture, then I cropped it and touched it up a bit for contrast on his boots.

Therefore, at least when THIS picture was taken, he was wearing cavalry/motorcycle boots with the SMALL buckles.

Rusty. you are a true gentleman. That picture is invaluable but it leaves me with yet more quandries - the smaller buckles on the boots you kindly linked are further spaced apart than the replica boots I linked!

I'm remodeling the boots based on your pictures - but I'm beginning to wonder if he had a variety of boots, and at different times. I really don't want to complete the model and then someone rubbish it because he has the wrong boots on. Basically the model is based upon when he is a 3 star general so I'll keep a close eye out on all 3-star pictures.

Thank you once again for your contribution!

RustyBattleship
13 May 08,, 22:48
Rusty. you are a true gentleman. That picture is invaluable but it leaves me with yet more quandries - the smaller buckles on the boots you kindly linked are further spaced apart than the replica boots I linked!

I'm remodeling the boots based on your pictures - but I'm beginning to wonder if he had a variety of boots, and at different times. I really don't want to complete the model and then someone rubbish it because he has the wrong boots on. Basically the model is based upon when he is a 3 star general so I'll keep a close eye out on all 3-star pictures.

Thank you once again for your contribution!
Yes, I noticed not only was the spacing further apart but the top buckle was higher than the "replica" boots. Also, the buckles don't seem to be directly on the outside but about an inch forward.

Patton was a very vane man and probably had at least half a dozen pairs at any one time and probably many more overall. I have also seen a photo of him, posed with a bunch of other officers, where he was wearing standard paratrooper boots.

So, depending upon the occassion he must have had a foot locker full of boots and low-quarters to choose from.

So my suggestion for a reply to anybody who criticizes the accuracy of the boots, just tell him you modeled them after his Monty meeting boots instead of his parade boots, motorcycle riding boots, horse riding leggins or mud stomping boots as he probably had enough varieties to open a shoe store of his own.

BudW
14 May 08,, 02:56
Post pic when your done please

execrable
15 May 08,, 08:28
--snip-- just tell him you modeled them after his Monty meeting boots instead of his parade boots, motorcycle riding boots, horse riding leggins or mud stomping boots as he probably had enough varieties to open a shoe store of his own.

:))


Post pic when your done please

I'm going to take a step back and post the modeling drawings first for approval and accuracy. I have a few currently but not enough - probably because I'm so uncertain of a particular outfit to work from.

So if you are both willing to be critical judges I would ask you check back in a week or so (hopefully before) when I get some drawings uploaded.

execrable
21 May 08,, 17:39
I came across some images on the Getty website -

Getty Images of General Patton (http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx?src=refinement&query=z.i.H4sIAAAAAAAEAO29B2AcSZYlJi9tynt_SvVK1-B0oQiAYBMk2JBAEOzBiM3mkuwdaUcjKasqgcplVmVdZhZAzO2d vPfee--999577733ujudTif33_8_XGZkAWz2zkrayZ4hgKrIHz9-fB8_In7dfLn9-ZNf49f4NX6PX_dskV3kvyb9-pj-_-utsratlr_mCB9sfEyDXzOpq6p9mdXZovm19DP8_LV2d_Drb4Z_ Evr_r_fu9XVz-s68-mt6f_Mr2bn59dfU3wHl187OpxYV8wf-_2vj5w53tGjdm-73X4cal_YL-xfe-3Xpj3phBxD--evjo1389evx5xMLo_M3v3YeQrF_MpQdC-W8A8X9za_VIRT7J0PZs1DqDhT3N1EmtzDwx6-tfzCZdvHbb2ja_sbmc6JJvjKf_prBX79W7rryfv-18sb72P7-azcr--aviT8MKr-VffFy6l50v_86Ve1xhP2Lv5rk_lfmLzy_9uxqaX7_Nc0fvw7-36wnDsHgr187zxwG_h_0-8r_wv7x6zYBtPDPX_vds-eO3vSH_SKrPdy8P36jZlqt8ifr5az0iBh8agD-OOA82LmPVv8PK26OUqgDAAA.&rid=98911&rcat=SpecificPeople&rt=George%20Smith%20Patton#)

I want to use these as source, he's been photographed from various angles and it's the largest base of similar images of Patton I've found. Unfortunately having started (nearly completed) his riding boots - he's not wearing them here. They look more like standard military issue which makes life easier and he's not wearing riding type trousers (cavalry issue?)

Anyhow, first of a series of drawings to get the style and impact I want for the wax model. Feedback would be appreciated - I think his helmet looks wrong though, reminds me of a British policeman's helmet!

execrable
21 May 08,, 19:38
This image is based upon various views (and I stole some detailing from a later picture on another website) but I am happy with the pose.

I'm hoping to base the model on the Normandy pictures where Patton met with various war correspondents.

Off home to do some more drawings based on this pose. However, I'm unlcear on the detailing and accurate design of the stars and the "U.S." badge on the collar and shirst collar so have drawn those in if anyone can guide me to better source images I would be most grateful.

RustyBattleship
22 May 08,, 02:12
Patton and his Bull Terrier "Willie". Note that Patton is wearing standard army boots (we called them Paratrooper boots then).

execrable
23 May 08,, 10:48
Wow does he ever look mean there!

OK, standard paratrooper boots? The pose is brilliant but I've not seen that helmet before so am sticking with the Normandy uniform posted above. I'll use that image and the other boots the others around him are wearing for reference. Will post some modeling drawings later this afternoon.