Rommel's Fate...

[Ironduke]

I came across a discussion on another site about what Rommel's fate would have been had he survived WWII and surrendered to the Western Allies. Nuremburg? NATO general?

[Officer of Engineers]

Would be the same as Kesselring's.

[SnowLeopard]

Comme ce, comme ca. Odds are, IMHO, he would have escaped Nuremburg similarly as Rundstedt.

Maybe because there are so many things that may not be apparent from history, so many things that may not be felt without being there. For example, did he use slave labor in constructing the Atlantic Wall? If so, would people hold that against him? While the allies might have held him 'highly', was not also Doenitz held highly? Look what became of him. Further, consider this: both Doenitz and Rommel were regarded as somewhat favorites by Hitler; would such be held against them by the Allies, after the war?

It gets very complex and in more ways than one. Ie, one wants the defector to come over to them but once they do, they are never trusted in a position of responsibility. I do not recall the book but there was a footnote in one where a Colonel Smart was parachuted in to contact Rommell about overthrowing Hitler but was captured before contact could be made. Did it really happen, was it attempted? Who knows but remember that Rommell was part of the plan, however slight, to betray Hitler, betray his country. The Allies would certainly welcome that ....... but afterwards, since he betrayed his country, we do not trust defectors, traitors, that they won't do the same thing to us. And Doenitz, Rundstedt, lack that distinction. Wrong or right, they were loyal to the end.

Hence, he might have escaped Nuremburg, but a NATO general, that is quite questionable. Alternately, of course, the Soviets might have snapped him up, either as a slave database or a prisoner.
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("[It's] too late for me. I'm seventy now - too old to fight, too old to challenge authority, however evil... but not too old, however, to wish you and your friends the best of luck in their extremely interesting enterprise."--Rundstedt, (wtte), "The Desert Fox")

[Irishman7]

This topic and discussion creates a question I would like to ask. How soon and how many divisions did West Germany put in the field after WWII? Were any prominent German WWII generals in charge of the new West German Army?

[Bluesman]

Two quick points re: this thread -

1) Rommel wasn't betraying his COUNTRY. He was betraying an evil dictator that was destroying his country. I don't think we would've seen in him the Quisling or the Benedict Arnold. He acted out of patriotic motive, not for personal gain.

2) He never fought on the Eastern Front, and as such, the most veangeful and blood-thirsty of the Allied Powers had no real axe to grind.

I think he'd have been held for awhile, then returned home. I wish it had been thus; think of THOSE memiors...

Oh, and re: the construction of the Atlantic Wall:

"...during the construction of the Atlantic Wall, Rommel directed that French workers were not to be used as slaves, but were to be paid for their labor."
Wiki

[Bluesman]

This topic and discussion creates a question I would like to ask. How soon and how many divisions did West Germany put in the field after WWII? Were any prominent German WWII generals in charge of the new West German Army?

The Bundeswehr was born in 1955, and got its name from Hasso von Manteuffel, former Wehrmacht general, then a politician.

Not too sure about any old Wehrmacht guys in the Bundeswehr, though. That would've been VERY problematic politically, and besides, there weren't many in good enough health and young enough to serve.

Luftwaffe, however...yeah, a few.

[Tarek Morgen]

The Bundeswehr was born in 1955, and got its name from Hasso von Manteuffel, former Wehrmacht general, then a politician.

Not too sure about any old Wehrmacht guys in the Bundeswehr, though. That would've been VERY problematic politically, and besides, there weren't many in good enough health and young enough to serve.

Luftwaffe, however...yeah, a few.

In the beginning all officers and ncos of the Bundeswehr were soldiers who served in the wehrmacht during the war. There was simply no alternative to them. Like Adenauer said, the nato would have never agreed to 18 year old generals. But all higher officers had to pass a jury (members selected by the palarment after suggestions from the president) to test if they would "moraly qualify" for the army of the now again democratic germany.

But already 51 the Bundesgrenzschutz ("border guard") was formed, which was at that time at least in parts military organized and had some light and middle "war" weapons (but was still far from being a real army).

[Guest]

A small point here ... Rommel was never really a great part of conspiracy against NSDAP ... his name sort of cameup during SS interogation. He was very very far from being the mastermind or the ring leaders of the coup.

[Tarek Morgen]

According to hsi wife, he did know about the plot, but opposed it. Not because he was against taken action against Hitler, but because he feared this would another "Dolchstoßlegende" like after WWI (that Germany would have won, if it would not have been for these "traitors") and that he also expressed the wish (again, according to his wife) that he would rather want to see Hitler in a courtroom than being murdered (probably to avoid giving him the status of a martyr)

[SnowLeopard]

A small point here ... Rommel was never really a great part of conspiracy against NSDAP ... his name sort of cameup during SS interogation. He was very very far from being the mastermind or the ring leaders of the coup.

I didn't say he was that far involved. I think the basic thing was that he was asked along the lines, "If there was an alternate government, would you consider being the head of it?". He didn't report it and that was enough to seal his fate.

Now, on an alternate point, a general opinion is that Rommel would never have been put on trial like the other conspirators. He was too important, too well liked by the people. The opinion is that one way or the other, he would have died in transit, either by poison or someone helping him.

Now as far as Allied vengence goes, never can tell. I always considered that Doenitz was a basic sailor, not a Nazi .............. but they went after him to nail him to the wall.
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(After General Hofmann has been given poison to take but deciding to end it with a pistol. "The fool!"--lead SS officer
"What difference does it make? Dead is dead."--assistant
"Yes, but this is harder to cover up.", (w,stte), "Breakthrough")

[Guest]

From what I know, even Karl Donitz was a firm supporter of NSDAP, the case of him being appointed as president in 1945 is proof to that, or perhape Hitler coulnt bear the thought of anyone fromthe Army of liftwaffe as the new head of state

[SnowLeopard]

From what I know, even Karl Donitz was a firm supporter of NSDAP, the case of him being appointed as president in 1945 is proof to that, or perhape Hitler coulnt bear the thought of anyone fromthe Army of liftwaffe as the new head of state

Well, recognizing that views of history can vary .........

I always took it that Hitler respected Doenitz or at the very least, the work that he did. Whether it was because of Doenitz's charm, the loyalty of his men, the accomplishments of the U-Boat arm, or whatever, hard to say. But one has to remember that the U-Boat crews, as the war went on, got the best food, got the best treatment .............. and their loss rate at the end of the war was 75%.

Herbert Weiner (sp?) in his book "Iron Coffins" wrote of how his father was imprisoned by the Gestapo when he was an XO, of how he went to Gestapo HQ, saw the leader there, demanded his father's release, and the Gestapo leader PALES. Why? Because at that point in the war, a U-Boat XO was only 2 steps or so away from Hitler. His CO, Doenitz (maybe Godt, the chief of Staff inbetween), and then Hitler. They were that highly respected.

But were they Nazi's? I would say no; otherwise, the introduction of political officers might have been easier to take or maybe not even needed.

But maybe one of things was that even with the introduction of the political officers, they continued on their basic job, fighting the war. They didn't buck the political officer because of the insult that he was there, but rather, only bucked him because it was more important to have the crew to the boat than it was to promote idealism in the boat.

So at the end of the war, maybe Hitler had someone he could respect in Doenitz. Maybe he had someone that he knew was loyal to the fatherland and not self serving to his own cause. Maybe he picked Doenitz because he knew he wouldn't run to save his own hide. Alternately, maybe there hadn't been any betrayl in the Navy.

Of course, this is all my opinion, I could be wrong.

Back to the point for a moment. Between Doenitz and Rommel, they were both, IMHO, favorites of Hitler.
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(After Morg has delivered a secret message annoucing that the wormhole minefield is coming down. "Can we believe this message?"--Admiral with the code strip in hand
"I've known the courier for five years. I trust him."--Sisko, (w,stte), "DS 9")

[Guest]

From what I know, Hitler respect for Donitz and Dr Raeder was probably due to the fact that the Navy was untouched by politics. Whereas Army was well known to be the state within the state in case of Germany. Von Seeckt tried to keep void of poltics in the 20s and so did his succerors, but eventually it was corrupted as well, and the luftwaffe is well known to be the creation of NSDAP. That leaves the Navy. Incase of Germany as like the case of Soviet Union, and unlike the case of USA, UK and Japan, there was NOT a deep rivalry between the two services (army and navy), perhapes because the Navy had accepted its secondary role in case of that continental-land-power. Therefore, the lack of inter-service rivalery probably, left the Germany Navy free of ugly politics, while Luftwaffe and Army fought for the resources.

That is why in my opinion, Hitler choose the navy to succed him, because he was through with all those people in the other branches. As far as them being Nazi or favoring Hitler's regime. IMO it matters not. They were patriots of the Germanic nation and they did their duty like all other soldiers do.

[Bluesman]

As far as no treachery in the Navy, I believe you're both forgetting about Canaris. ADMIRAL Canaris.

Oh, sure, he wasn't in naval ops; but he wore a Kriegsmarine uniform, and in a twisted mind like Hitler's, there's treachery in the Navy, alright.

[Guest]

Canaris did not represented the mainstream of the Navy, rather he represented the mainstream of the intelligence service. Therefore, his uniform doesnt matter - small exception. Hitler fury was logically directed toward the abwehr, rather then the Navy. The absobrtion of abwehr into SS is proof to that.