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Wraith601
27 Feb 07,, 08:55
This seems to the best forum for this, but if I'm wrong I'll ask a mod to move it.

You may or not have heard of NationStates (http://www.nationstates.net/), but it's a nation simulation game where you create and run your own country. I recently started organizing my military for my newest nation and wanted to get any fedeback or comments on what I have so far.

Fictional Military (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?p=12366353)

Just so you know moat of the equipment listed in fictional, but the rest is close to reality.

Any thoughts, comments, or questions?

BD1
27 Feb 07,, 10:09
tolvan in estonian means 创stooge创 or 创jackass创:confused:

SnowLeopard
27 Feb 07,, 10:26
One could lose their mind working out a government organization alone. For example, you have MASH units ....... but that's it. No Hospital ships, no Medevac transports, no apparent way to get the wounded off the battlefield to ?

No submarines. Nuclear carriers but no submarines. A lot put on submarine defense with patrol aircraft ....... but no submarines. Remember, the best weapon against a submarine is another submarine.

There is a mine sweep capability but it appears not much of a mine laying capability. Ie, such as from submarines though it might be from the air in the light aircraft category. Further, the sweeping capabilty seems light in that there doesn't appear to be any helicopters capable of towing a sled.

There appears to be no amphib capability to speak of, from getting troops and vehicles to shore, to resupplying from the sea. There appears to be no at sea repair capability such as even a fleet tug to tow a disabled warship to a safe port.

The number of escorts may be light to enable protection of a replenishment ship to/from port and the battlegroup.

Bombing capability seems to be light, all of it concentrated in stealth. Think outside the box a little bit. If one wanted to go after the other guy's sea lanes, especially his merchant fleets, and he could send up a B-52 or similar aircraft with Tomahawk/Harpoon and team it with an AWACS .... watch out. The capability is partially there but it mismatched.

One has the long ranged AWACS ....... and it can be coupled with the long range but slow P-3. One might be able to do it with a KC-10, kicking the birds out as suggested during the Carter administration.

Essentially, it would help if one had some kind of flying dumptruck for bombs, be it a B-52, an A-6, something .................... especially if one is going to put the money in to have nuclear carriers.

There is very little VTOL capability. By appearance, just the H-60's. No Harriers. The ground attack capability, which should have at least two wings, is confined to runways, not forward deployed areas. There appear to be no attack helicopters. It appears that the naval assets are for protection of the carrier and are insufficient to be used for convoy duty without leaving carriers open. If one had Harriers, attack helicopters, it could be possible to defend the merchant fleet without assigning a carrier to the task.

There is no sea reconnaissance capabilty in the fleet to speak of, such as with submarines, AGI's, survey ships or such. Everything is tied up in the armed and quite obvious warship. People tend to notice warships and it is kind of hard to watch the other guy when the watching is obvious.

Aside from the AWACS and the E-birds, there is no air recon available. Tactically, these days, we strap a pack on or send a drone (and drones seem to be missing though they might be tied up in the signals company). There appears to be no strategic recon capability, whether satellites, SR-71, or MiG-25R ........ thought the B-2's might be pressed for that role ....... but that's an expensive platform for such.

Unless it's in the drones, there appears to be no battlefield tactical air recon capability, such as from helicopters, FAC, OV-10's, etc..

In the 70-80's, I was told that the minimum number in a squadron for aircraft was 12, so to be able to field a flight. Not all aircraft will be in the air at the same time. If that number is still correct, might want to bump the B-2 squadrons up to 12.

And so forth. How big this country is, how many coast lines, how many warm water ports (ie, icebreakers?), where the money comes from, etc., I'll let that one go to side.

BASICALLY, it looks like all the nice 'toys' are there but the other tools of a military are missing. Which isn't necessary bad. This is a game and it's suppose to be fun, right?
-----------------------------------------------------
(Captain Hudson is stalling for time to remain next to a secret enemy base. "But now it is SeaQuest that needs your help. In our haste to get here (to answer a distress call), we damaged several of our drive units and are unable to manuveur."
"Then ...... you will permit us to escort you to one our bases so you may effect repairs."--enemy General, expecting him to refuse
"General, that would be most helpful!"
Confused, "Get under way as soon as you can!" and he cuts the link, (w,stte), SeaQuest "Good Soldiers")

Militarythinker
27 Feb 07,, 14:14
Wow that is an impressive list. I agree with SnowLeopard on many of his points but I am more interested where you came up with the information to create a list like this. What existing models did you use and where did you get them?

Wraith601
28 Feb 07,, 05:58
Wow that is an impressive list. I agree with SnowLeopard on many of his points but I am more interested where you came up with the information to create a list like this. What existing models did you use and where did you get them?

I'm going to address some of SnowLeopard's concern's in another post, but i'll answer you first. Basically I looked at how big the American military is and scaled down (my nation is currently 188 million, but the game adds up to 6 million a day, so accurate scaling can be difficult, I just add a few units every couple weeks).

Wraith601
28 Feb 07,, 06:00
tolvan in estonian means 创stooge创 or 创jackass创:confused:

I was unaware of that, I changed the name of my old nation, Tolven, to Tolvan. Yes, I have that much free time.

Wraith601
28 Feb 07,, 06:26
One could lose their mind working out a government organization alone. For example, you have MASH units ....... but that's it. No Hospital ships, no Medevac transports, no apparent way to get the wounded off the battlefield to?

Each battalion has a medical platoon and each brigade has a medical company in the support battalion. I haven't been able to get my TO&Es that detailed yet.


No submarines. Nuclear carriers but no submarines. A lot put on submarine defense with patrol aircraft ....... but no submarines. Remember, the best weapon against a submarine is another submarine.

I'm planning to acquire some soon. The world of NS (NationStates) is much more militarised (for dramatic reasons) and modern real life gear is usually outclassed. Luckily, some people with more free time then me design outragelously detailed pieces of euipment.


There is a mine sweep capability but it appears not much of a mine laying capability. Ie, such as from submarines though it might be from the air in the light aircraft category. Further, the sweeping capabilty seems light in that there doesn't appear to be any helicopters capable of towing a sled.

The MCMs can lay mines as well. Not a lot of capability but it is there.


There appears to be no amphib capability to speak of, from getting troops and vehicles to shore, to resupplying from the sea. There appears to be no at sea repair capability such as even a fleet tug to tow a disabled warship to a safe port.

It's on my agenda. My country is rather isolationist and marine forces are primarily offensive forces.


The number of escorts may be light to enable protection of a replenishment ship to/from port and the battlegroup.

I'm planning to expand, but I ran out of names.


Bombing capability seems to be light, all of it concentrated in stealth. Think outside the box a little bit. If one wanted to go after the other guy's sea lanes, especially his merchant fleets, and he could send up a B-52 or similar aircraft with Tomahawk/Harpoon and team it with an AWACS .... watch out. The capability is partially there but it mismatched.

One has the long ranged AWACS ....... and it can be coupled with the long range but slow P-3. One might be able to do it with a KC-10, kicking the birds out as suggested during the Carter administration.

Essentially, it would help if one had some kind of flying dumptruck for bombs, be it a B-52, an A-6, something .................... especially if one is going to put the money in to have nuclear carriers.

Given the advanced state of weaponry in the NS "world" planes like the A-6 and B-52 are immensely vulnerable to SAMs.


There is very little VTOL capability. By appearance, just the H-60's. No Harriers. The ground attack capability, which should have at least two wings, is confined to runways, not forward deployed areas. There appear to be no attack helicopters. It appears that the naval assets are for protection of the carrier and are insufficient to be used for convoy duty without leaving carriers open. If one had Harriers, attack helicopters, it could be possible to defend the merchant fleet without assigning a carrier to the task.

Harriers are badly ouclassed in the NS world, but I'm proably going to introduce either F-35Bs or VTOL F-28s (kinda like a more advanced F-22), the guy who designed the F-28 has a pretty good VTOL work up as well. Also I have AH-64s and OH-58s as part of the attack aviation brigades, I just don't have the TOEs up yet.


There is no sea reconnaissance capabilty in the fleet to speak of, such as with submarines, AGI's, survey ships or such. Everything is tied up in the armed and quite obvious warship. People tend to notice warships and it is kind of hard to watch the other guy when the watching is obvious.

I'll have to address that later. Personally, I'd rather just do away with a navy and be landlocked because I know more about ground combat anyway.


Aside from the AWACS and the E-birds, there is no air recon available. Tactically, these days, we strap a pack on or send a drone (and drones seem to be missing though they might be tied up in the signals company). There appears to be no strategic recon capability, whether satellites, SR-71, or MiG-25R ........ thought the B-2's might be pressed for that role ....... but that's an expensive platform for such.

Unless it's in the drones, there appears to be no battlefield tactical air recon capability, such as from helicopters, FAC, OV-10's, etc..

I have UAVs, part of the MI company in light brigades as well as the Surveillance troop in the cavalry squadrons in armored brigades. I also use OH-58s as mentioned before.


In the 70-80's, I was told that the minimum number in a squadron for aircraft was 12, so to be able to field a flight. Not all aircraft will be in the air at the same time. If that number is still correct, might want to bump the B-2 squadrons up to 12.

I proably will.


And so forth. How big this country is, how many coast lines, how many warm water ports (ie, icebreakers?), where the money comes from, etc., I'll let that one go to side.

I'm still working on a map, but mostly temperate with a rather cold tundra in northernmost parts.


BASICALLY, it looks like all the nice 'toys' are there but the other tools of a military are missing. Which isn't necessary bad. This is a game and it's suppose to be fun, right?

Most NS warfare occurs in role playing type discussions. As a result the emphasis is on narrative and tank crews usually make better stories than the battalion supply platoon, as important as their job may be in reality, it just doesn't come up much.

Militarythinker
28 Feb 07,, 07:04
I'm going to address some of SnowLeopard's concern's in another post, but i'll answer you first. Basically I looked at how big the American military is and scaled down (my nation is currently 188 million, but the game adds up to 6 million a day, so accurate scaling can be difficult, I just add a few units every couple weeks).

Ok, that makes sense. But where did you find a model of the US military that detailed?

Wraith601
28 Feb 07,, 07:16
Ok, that makes sense. But where did you find a model of the US military that detailed?

GlobalSecuity.org (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/index.html)

While it's kinda out of date in places it lists every unit in the US military.

SnowLeopard
28 Feb 07,, 08:45
I'm going to address some of SnowLeopard's concern's in another post........

It's your game, play it however you wish. You only asked for an opinion and I gave such.
--------------------------------------
("Opinions, Gentlemen?"--Kirk, having gotton the Enterprise surrounded by 3 warbirds, (w,stte), ST:TOS "The Enterprise Incident")

Wraith601
01 Mar 07,, 05:12
It's your game, play it however you wish. You only asked for an opinion and I gave such.


I wasn't trying to start a debate. I was merely explaining why the shortcomings you noticed were there.

TheChosenOne
01 Mar 07,, 11:46
This looks quite intriquing. I wish I had the time to play :(

Wraith601
03 Mar 07,, 06:24
This looks quite intriquing. I wish I had the time to play :(

Running your nation requires very little time at all. Once (or twice, you pick) a day you recieve a multiple choice question regarding a naitonal issue. Your answers over time affects you country's economy, civil rights, and political freedoms. You only need a couple minutes to do it.

To actually fight wars and engage in diplomacy you have to visit the forums and that takes a lot more time.

TheChosenOne
03 Mar 07,, 11:57
I now notice that. I will just have to put my nose in the air and ignore all the requests from other nations....that way I don't get too involved :D.

ChrisF202
09 May 07,, 15:03
I let my NS account die off but when it was active my army was basically a heavily armed paramilitary police force with a few tanks and artillery peices.