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New German tanks for Canadian Army in Afghanistan

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  • New German tanks for Canadian Army in Afghanistan

    According to the German magazin "Der Spiegel" Canada is about to lease 20 Leopard 2 A6M from the German Army for two years for its operation in Afghanistan. The producer "Krauss-Maffei Wegmann" would not be able to deliever fast enough so these tanks would come from the arsenal of the Germany Army instead of being new built. Further Canada wants to buy another 80 Leopard 2 A4 eventually.

    Link (in German): Kanada will deutsche "Leopard 2"-Panzer für Afghanistan - DER SPIEGEL - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten

  • #2
    moin, moin.
    First time Leo II sees action?
    >Facit Omnia Voluntas<

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    • #3
      Well lets hope they'll do the canadians a good service.

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      • #4
        This may well be the first time the tank proves itself.
        "The right man in the wrong place can make all the difference in the world. So wake up, Mr. Freeman. Wake up and smell the ashes." G-Man

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        • #5
          Hopefully, they'll be there in time for the Taliban's promised "spring offensive".

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          • #6
            Attaboy Deutschland!

            Colonel,

            I thought you had written once that Canada is doing away with tanks!


            "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

            I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

            HAKUNA MATATA

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            • #7
              Sir,

              The original premis was that the LAV-105 would be cheaper to operate - not anymore.

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              • #8
                Thanks


                "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                HAKUNA MATATA

                Comment


                • #9
                  Great move this will make the Canadian "Tankies" even better than they already are......
                  sigpicFEAR NAUGHT

                  Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

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                  • #10
                    Finally!

                    I bet you were pretty happy eh Colonel?
                    In Iran people belive pepsi stands for pay each penny save israel. -urmomma158
                    The Russian Navy is still a threat, but only to those unlucky enough to be Russian sailors.-highsea

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by T_igger_cs_30 View Post
                      Great move this will make the Canadian "Tankies" even better than they already are......
                      Otherwise known as A and B Sqns, Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians), affectionately called "Zipperheads" by most of the CF and "Jockstrap Jailers" by those whoever played poker with them.

                      Originally posted by Stan187 View Post
                      Finally!

                      I bet you were pretty happy eh Colonel?
                      Ottawa has not placed the order yet. It just looks like the ground work is being done to get things moving should an order be placed. Still, I like to know how they are going to do this. We ordered 66 LAV-105s to flush out two sqns with a troop for the battle school. I don't know how 80 is going to be distributed.

                      Still, yes, I'm happy. We're not relying on prayer armour after all.

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                      • #12
                        And of course, the Left in this country have this to say about the Leopard tanks in Afghanistan, both new and old versions of the leopard..


                        New tanks no match for Taliban
                        Insurgents have weapons capable of crippling Leopards, report says


                        David Pugliese., The Ottawa Citizen
                        Published: Monday, February 26, 2007

                        Canada's Leopard tanks in Afghanistan, as well as the new armoured vehicles the military soon hopes to acquire for operations there, are potential sitting ducks for insurgents, according to a report to be released today.

                        The study, done for the left-leaning Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives, warns that insurgents have the weaponry to knock out the Canadian Leopards in Kandahar and can obtain the materials to immobilize the upgraded tanks the Canadian Forces want to purchase.

                        The end result is that the Canadian Forces will be trapped in an arms race with insurgents as they try to outdo each other, according to the study's author.

                        The report comes on the heels of new efforts by the Canadian Forces to lease state-of-the-art Leopard 2 tanks for the Kandahar mission and claims by the Taliban that it has access to more technologically advanced weapons for its planned spring offensive.

                        A Canadian military team was in Germany two weeks ago to work out details of the purchase of surplus Leopard tanks. The officers were also working on arrangements to lease from Germany the most advanced Leopard 2 tank available and have that shipped to Afghanistan as soon as possible.

                        There is interest in further building up of the armoured protection on that tank, already designed to withstand landmines, in order to deal with whatever new weapons the Taliban might use, sources said.

                        Military officials, however, say no decision has been made on the proposed purchase or lease.

                        But in a report to be released today, University of British Columbia political science professor Michael Wallace questions the use of the Leopards in Kandahar and argues that the tanks send the wrong message to Afghans.

                        "How can Canada set its sights on human rights, reconstruction, and economic development if its view of the country is narrowed to the turret sight of a tank?" he writes.

                        He said the use of heavier weaponry such as the Leopards creates the potential for further civilian casualties, which in turn only drives Afghans to support the insurgents.

                        Mr. Wallace said in preparation for their spring offensive, Afghan insurgents will likely also examine what is needed to defeat the Canadian Leopards and any new tanks Canada puts in the field.

                        Such information is readily available on the Internet, including a U.S. military site that details the design for an armour-piercing roadside bomb, he noted.

                        The rocket-propelled grenades already in use by the insurgents could be used to immobilize the tanks, he added.

                        "It's understandable why the military sent the Leopards since they will probably save Canadian lives," said Mr. Wallace, a senior adviser to the Ottawa-based Rideau Institute on International Affairs.

                        "But there is likely to develop in Afghanistan, as happened in Iraq, an arms race between armour and the armour-defeating weapons the insurgents have learned to build."

                        The Canadian Forces argue the Leopards are needed to provide firepower and added protection to troops. Last week, army commander Lt.-Gen. Andrew Leslie said the Leopard "is the best-protected vehicle against enormous blasts."

                        The tanks provide protection against suicide bombers, roadside bombs and rocket-propelled grenades, he said. The Leopards will also be able to move over irrigation ditches and other obstacles that hindered wheeled light-armoured vehicles during fighting last year, Lt.-Gen. Leslie said.

                        Taliban officials claim they have acquired surface-to-air missiles that will be used to attack NATO aircraft and they have also hinted that more advanced weapons may also be used.

                        "There are many more technological surprises in store," a Taliban source told the Italian news agency AKI last week. He did not give further details about whether that would include weapons to destroy armoured vehicles.

                        NATO, however, has questioned the veracity of Taliban claims in the past and pointed out that the insurgents tend to boast about capabilities they do not have.

                        Canadian Brig.-Gen. Tim Grant also doesn't believe that fighting will reach the same levels as last year since NATO plans pre-emptive strikes to disrupt Taliban forces.

                        Mr. Wallace acknowledges he has no easy answers on what the future course of action in Afghanistan should be. But he also notes the Canadian Forces and government don't appear to know either.

                        "We're getting more and more sucked in to something that's going to be harder and harder to get out of," he added.

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                        • #13
                          I will await the Colonels response to this, it will no doubt be far more diplomatic than mine.................I think !!!!!!!!
                          sigpicFEAR NAUGHT

                          Should raw analytical data ever be passed to policy makers?

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                          • #14
                            I just think its funny that the left is saying that the Leopard can be defeated, so we should not send them.. Any military vehicle can be defeated, but that does not mean that we should not send them anyways to protect our boys.

                            And if anything, it shows the local Afghans that we are serious about ridding them of the Taliban, and helping to rebuild there country.

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                            • #15
                              I was never in a position where I had to be diplomatic to civilians outside DND, so diplomacy to an idiot is a skill I never learned. Wallace is a political scientist who never did a real eval in his life. His report is completely worthless; attributing 3 decades of experience to the Taliban and looks like he skimned the internet rather than interviewing the people on the ground.

                              Hell, I can kill any tank with a shovel ... if I know where they coming from, going to, and I have the time to dig a tiger trap and that is where Wallace comes up short big time.

                              As an insurgent force, the Taliban is to be respected. As a conventional beast? I've seen better from boy scouts - no, I'm not joking.

                              Wallace must be blowing somebody well because this crap is coming out of his top end.

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