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  • Pol Skewers U.S. Policy On Gays

    Too bad many of our politicians are just plain ignorant, blasting the Pentagon for a policy that is required to be implemented by Congressional statute. Oops, you need to look in your own house to fix the issue!

    Long Island Newsday
    February 8, 2007

    Pol Skewers U.S. Policy On Gays

    By Associated Press

    WASHINGTON - Rep. Gary Ackerman jokingly suggested yesterday that the Bush administration may fear a "platoon of lesbians" more than terrorists in Baghdad, given the military's policy toward gays and lesbians.

    Ackerman's criticism of Pentagon policy came during Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's testimony before the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

    He complained to Rice that the military had fired Arabic and Farsi translators after learning they were gay.

    "For some reason, the military seems more afraid of gay people than they are against terrorists. They're very brave with the terrorists, and if the terrorists ever got a hold of this information, they get a platoon of lesbians to chase us out of Baghdad," said Ackerman, prompting laughter in the room.

    The lawmaker, who in 2002 voted for the invasion of Iraq but is now a fierce opponent of the war, made one other crack, too, in reference to the Bush administration's opposition to gay marriage.

    Ackerman (D-Jamaica Estates) suggested the Department of State could hire dozens of outed - and ousted - former military translators.

    "Can we marry up these two - or maybe that's not the right word. ... Can we have some kind of union of those two issues?" he asked, prompting a fresh outburst of laughter.

    The Human Rights Campaign, a gay rights group, said Ackerman was right to criticize the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy. "It is clear the congressman was underscoring the ridiculousness of the ... policy and how it's hurting our efforts to fight the war on terror," spokesman Luis Vizcaino said.
    "So little pains do the vulgar take in the investigation of truth, accepting readily the first story that comes to hand." Thucydides 1.20.3

  • #2


    "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

    I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

    HAKUNA MATATA

    Comment


    • #3
      Actually

      That is pretty witty, for a leftie.
      Relax. It's worse than you think.

      Comment


      • #4
        The homophobic label was stale a decade ago. If normal people truly were afraid of such devient and abhorrent behavoir, they would have stamped it out a long time ago. I am also more than a little sick and tired of an outspoken minority that belittles my beliefs and moral system because it stands in the way of their behavior being universally accepted as normal. Once again to be totally clear on the subject, I have absolutely no fear of homo behavior and acts,just makes me want to puke. Although I will never accept such act as normal, I can still be around such people and have normal relationships with them. I simply do not need to know everyone's sexual orientation as it is of no interest to me and it should not be made into an issue. Finally, we must ask ourselves why gays are constantly forcing the issue. Could it be that they are the ones who are afraid? Damned heterophobes!
        Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

        Comment


        • #5
          If normal people truly were afraid of such devient and abhorrent behavoir, they would have stamped it out a long time ago.
          People tried for a long time.

          I am also more than a little sick and tired of an outspoken minority that belittles my beliefs and moral system because it stands in the way of their behavior being universally accepted as normal.
          Maybe "they" (whoever is doing that) wouldn't belittle your beliefs and moral system if that system didn't require you to call their sexual orientation abhorrent and deviant, and if you didn't express your desire to puke because of them, and if it didn't require them to be excluded from opportunities by certain policies.

          Comment


          • #6
            Giving a vocal minority some ground in the hopes that would shut them up is not trying very hard. Hence no fear. I do understand that there are those who go out of their way to do some "gay bashing". I am not one of those and I do not condone it either. The gays do not afford me any slack. Whenever they come to me for support, I only tell them that I will support the person, but not the act. Then I always get hit with the yelling and screaming and I get to be called a homophobe, etc. This really should be a non issue.

            They belittle my beliefs and morals only because it makes them feel better, ie "this person does not believe the way I do so he must be wrong". As for devient well, that is a term for what falls outside the "normal range" so the term IS applicable unless there is a huge percentage of people that engage in such behavior and I think that is not the case. I find many behaviors abhorrent, homo sex is only one such behavior.

            Excluded from opportunites? What opportunities.
            Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

            Comment


            • #7
              Giving a vocal minority some ground in the hopes that would shut them up is not trying very hard. Hence no fear.
              Do you think that time started like 10 years ago?

              I am not one of those and I do not condone it either. The gays do not afford me any slack. Whenever they come to me for support, I only tell them that I will support the person, but not the act. Then I always get hit with the yelling and screaming and I get to be called a homophobe, etc. This really should be a non issue.
              I am not saying you are a bad person or that you want to kill gays or whatever, we're just talking about opinions and beliefs. If you take homophobia as hatred of homosexuality, rather than fear of individual homosexuals, would you say that that more accurately describes your beliefs?

              They belittle my beliefs and morals only because it makes them feel better, ie "this person does not believe the way I do so he must be wrong".
              But you believe they are wrong too. Why is it only fine one way?

              I find many behaviors abhorrent, homo sex is only one such behavior.
              And they may find more than your beliefs to be abhorrent or something worth belittling. I gotta say, if you found a large part of me that I cannot chang to be abhorrent I would probably respond by belittling any beliefs you had that made you feel that way.

              Excluded from opportunites? What opportunities.
              Take a look at the opening post of this thread. If a gay person lets it slip that they are gay they are kicked out of the military. If some of our military experts at WAB say that this is vital for the safety of the troops I will reconsider, but until then I would say that is an example. And there is also the issue of gay marriage...which is probably completely irreconcilable with your beliefs (correct me if I'm wrong, I do not wish to put words in your mouth), which might tell you something about why they might have a problem with your beliefs.

              Comment


              • #8
                Since homosexuality is not open in India, I wouldn't know much about it.

                What is this 'fear of homosexuals'?

                They are human beings and why should we have any fear about them? Do they physically assault?

                Hatred of homsexual I understand, but not this fear aspect.

                Could someone explain?


                "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                HAKUNA MATATA

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have no problem with gay marriage. If a gay man wants to marry someone, that's his business. He can marry any woman who'll take him. When people start trying to redefine marriage, that's where I balk. I want to play soccer, but with an American football: we're sorry, that's not soccer, that's something else. If you want to redefine marriage, okay; put to the vote; I'll vote against it, but if the majority want it, I can deal with it. Just don't let the dang courts do the work for you. <end rant>
                  I enjoy being wrong too much to change my mind.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have no problem with gay marriage. If a gay man wants to marry someone, that's his business. He can marry any woman who'll take him. When people start trying to redefine marriage, that's where I balk. I want to play soccer, but with an American football: we're sorry, that's not soccer, that's something else. If you want to redefine marriage, okay; put to the vote; I'll vote against it, but if the majority want it, I can deal with it. Just don't let the dang courts do the work for you.
                    Why does a redefinition bother you? Are you religious? If so, I understand while obviously not agreeing. If not, why not? Assuming you aren't religious, there are two points: how does two people of the same gender harm you in any way? Secondly, the people arguing in favour of it believe it to be a rights issue (rights in the broader sense of the word, not necessarily in the constitution), meaning it should not be subject to being prevented by bigoted voting patterns. Once again I am totally aware that this comparison is extreme and that the issue is not nearly as important but: once upon a time the question of slavery was a states issue decided upon by popular sovereignty - ie the whites in each state all vote on whether or not it is okay to own black people. Is that reasonable? The constitution specifically did not prohibit slavery, nor was the founders' intention to prohibit slavery. If their right to not be slaves existed, it existed outside the constitution until the 13th amendment. I know the issues are not even close to the same magnitude, but now that such serious issues have been dealt with, I think we can afford to deal with these lesser issues.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Ray View Post
                      Since homosexuality is not open in India, I wouldn't know much about it.

                      What is this 'fear of homosexuals'?

                      They are human beings and why should we have any fear about them? Do they physically assault?

                      Hatred of homsexual I understand, but not this fear aspect.

                      Could someone explain?
                      Homophobia is a self defence tool used by gays. If you are not in league with them there must be something wrong with you so you must be a homophobe. Just another twisted line of thinking.
                      Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ZFBoxcar View Post
                        Do you think that time started like 10 years ago?



                        I am not saying you are a bad person or that you want to kill gays or whatever, we're just talking about opinions and beliefs. If you take homophobia as hatred of homosexuality, rather than fear of individual homosexuals, would you say that that more accurately describes your beliefs?



                        But you believe they are wrong too. Why is it only fine one way?





                        And they may find more than your beliefs to be abhorrent or something worth belittling. I gotta say, if you found a large part of me that I cannot chang to be abhorrent I would probably respond by belittling any beliefs you had that made you feel that way.



                        Take a look at the opening post of this thread. If a gay person lets it slip that they are gay they are kicked out of the military. If some of our military experts at WAB say that this is vital for the safety of the troops I will reconsider, but until then I would say that is an example. And there is also the issue of gay marriage...which is probably completely irreconcilable with your beliefs (correct me if I'm wrong, I do not wish to put words in your mouth), which might tell you something about why they might have a problem with your beliefs.

                        Umm no. Time did not start ten years ago. The point is that if the general population was phobic, they could have acted from that fear and all but wiped out the gay community a thousand times over. Fear is simply not part of the equation.


                        I do not fear, nor do I hate homosexuals, I am just not pleased with the acts they do in the name of their sexual orientation. Yes. I do believe that homosexuality is wrong. I believe their desire to change religion, and societies basic beliefs to say homosexuality is "OK" is wrong, and their attempts to perpetuate homosexuality is wrong.

                        Now. Lets say the societies as a whole, fully endorses homosexuality(something that was a tabboo and has been seen as wrong since the beginning of civilization). Where will the line be drawn for what is right and wrong? Do we now accept pediphiles? Is incest now ok as well?

                        The definition of marriage always has been one woman and one man. Any man can marry any woman as long as both parties are willing. Homosexuals are free to marry under these circumstances, but they choose not to. They can have civil unions.

                        The don't ask, don't tell policy for gays is no secret. The people in question could have made the choice to either be straight or celebate while in the military or choose another profession. They chose a route that would get them kicked out instead.

                        Ofcourse homosexuals have a problem with my beliefs as they are road blocks to the acceptance of their behavior. My beliefs are backed up by centuries of the status quo, major religions and the majority of the population at large.

                        ZFBoxcar. You can have the final reply as I am done with this thread.
                        Removing a single turd from the cesspool doesn't make any difference.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I originally added something, but its probably best just to end this for now.
                          Last edited by ZFBoxcar; 09 Feb 07,, 16:58.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bonehead View Post
                            Homophobia is a self defence tool used by gays. If you are not in league with them there must be something wrong with you so you must be a homophobe. Just another twisted line of thinking.
                            Thanks.


                            "Some have learnt many Tricks of sly Evasion, Instead of Truth they use Equivocation, And eke it out with mental Reservation, Which is to good Men an Abomination."

                            I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.

                            HAKUNA MATATA

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ray View Post
                              What is this 'fear of homosexuals'?
                              I like to look at this way: remember how awkward it felt those first few times you were asking a girl out or were next to one that really liked you but who you thought of as a friend?
                              I think it's a bit like that.


                              Not that I would know. I have no homophobia at all, never had. In fact, I somehow have a tendency to flirt with guys more than girls. I'm not gay, but I do love to see other people laugh.
                              "The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood"-Otto Von Bismarck

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