Italy Vs Spain

[AzzurroItalia]

I think Italy will win.....

[Praxus]

This is a totaly rediculus topic because the only way either side can wage a real war on each other is...

A.) An Amphibious assault
B.) An attack through mainland Europe,
C.)For Italy an attack on North Africa and then a ride through the desert to Gibralter(sp?) and feary troops into Spain. None of which either side can do.
D.) Airborne Assault

Neither side has this capability and the only country that can air drop a full division is the United States.


If it is strictly a Sea Battle the Spainish will win because of the F100 Frigate which uses the latest version of AEGIS.

[bigross86]

Only the frigates have AEGIS?

[Praxus]

The F100 Frigate is the only ship outside the US and Japanese Navy's that have Aegis.

F100 Frigate


To my knowledge neither Italy or Spain have something you could call a Destroyer.

[Ironduke]

You could put it who would win if they had equal airlift and amphibious landing capabilities, but otherwise were the same as they are now.

[Bill]

Italy has a much better air force i think.

Both have a little carrier, so you'd have to do a naval fleet to fleet scenario.

BTW, Germany is buying F-100's too, i think.

[bigross86]

You gotta consider alliances also. Who would benefit the most from who winning?

[Praxus]

The F100 will shoot down anything the "Little Carrier" puts up.

As for Germany buying the F100 they aren't. The Netherlands and Germany is buying the LCF. Which does not have AEGIS. It has an inferior Netherlands made phassed array radar, I think they chose it because of the huge price of the AEGIS.

LCF(German De Zeven Class):


Oh and Italy and Spain don't have much of an airforce.

[AzzurroItalia]

Spain right now only has 1 F-100 destroyer in service. And, if war happened Italy would be ready for Spain. Remember, was doesn't simply happen, it takes a period of time, with that time, Italy would assemble a huge navy, a huge airforce fleet, and powerful amphibous forces.

I am not saying Italy can occupy areas of Spain, which is impossible. But what Italy can conquer, is some of Spain's islands in the Mediteranean Sea, and with that, Spain would not have lost their best position to attack the Italian Fleet.

It is simple to see if we review the facts:

1) War to spark takes time, thus Italy will have time to arm
2) Italy has the capibility to create new technology, and mass produce, something Spain has not mastered.
3) In case of war, Italy can make nuclear bombs, tilting the scales overwhelmingly in favor to Italy.

**Don't forget:

1) Spain's F-100 cannot match the Luigi Durand De La Penne Destroyers + Horizons

2) Spain's carrier would be completely in danger (If war began in 2008) from the Andrea Doria's JSFs. Also, there is an option fixing the Garibaldi to carry them.

3) THe new Millenium Frigate

4) Italy can create new technology

[AzzurroItalia]

Originally posted by M21Sniper
Italy has a much better air force i think.

Both have a little carrier, so you'd have to do a naval fleet to fleet scenario.

BTW, Germany is buying F-100's too, i think.

Yes, but Italy has a small carrier because the Giuseppe Garibaldi was actually meant to be a Helicopter carrier. But later, the Italian Navy won the airforce in allowing the Italian Navy to carry fixed wing aircraft...

The F100 will shoot down anything the "Little Carrier" puts up

Don't underestimate the Garibaldi. The Garibaldi can be easily tranformed into a carrier to allow JSF planes. Not to mention, Spain has nothing to challenge the Sauro class except for the old S-60 and 70. Which, the Sauro can easily cream. Not to mention, the Italian U-212 are coming very soon!!!!! :D

[Praxus]

Spain right now only has 1 F-100 destroyer in service. And, if war happened Italy would be ready for Spain. Remember, was doesn't simply happen, it takes a period of time, with that time, Italy would assemble a huge navy, a huge airforce fleet, and powerful amphibous forces.

I am not saying Italy can occupy areas of Spain, which is impossible. But what Italy can conquer, is some of Spain's islands in the Mediteranean Sea, and with that, Spain would not have lost their best position to attack the Italian Fleet.

It is simple to see if we review the facts:

1) War to spark takes time, thus Italy will have time to arm
2) Italy has the capibility to create new technology, and mass produce, something Spain has not mastered.
3) In case of war, Italy can make nuclear bombs, tilting the scales overwhelmingly in favor to Italy.

So you think Spain is going to be sitting on it's ass while Italy builds up it's military.?

(These numbers coresbond with yours)
1.)So will Spain
2.)Spain can import from the United States and they actually can mass produce equipment(its cheaper to do in Spain then Italy).
3.) If Italy uses Nuclear bombs the United States will turn Italy into a glowing peice of rock.

**Don't forget:

1) Spain's F-100 cannot match the Luigi Durand De La Penne Destroyers + Horizons

2) Spain's carrier would be completely in danger (If war began in 2008) from the Andrea Doria's JSFs. Also, there is an option fixing the Garibaldi to carry them.

3) THe new Millenium Frigate

4) Italy can create new technology

(These numbers coresbond with yours)

1.) You got to be kidding! The F100 has a phased array radar(the best of it's kind in the world). Where the De La Penne Destroyers have a rotating radar. This means you only get updates on target information every second or so. A phased array radar has it's radar beam electronicly aimed and can look at enourmous spaces extremly rapidly and you get information on where the target is almost instantaniously.

Another thins is the armerment, the De La Penne can only fire Albatros 2(range 15km) and SM-2MR Tartar missiles(range 120-160km). Where the F100 carrys SM-2MR Block IIIA(range 120-160km) which is far better and updated missile. The F100 has the ESSM which is far better then the Albatros 2. It knocked down drones going mach 4 while the drone was doing 9g manouvers.

2.) Italy isn't getting their Joint Strike Fighters till AT LEAST 2015, because the US and British fighters have the prioity over Italy in the production(which will last at least 7-10 years). On top of this, it is not likely we would allow Italy to have them if there were an Italian build up to attack Spain.

[Bill]

Well, first of all, Italy may have a smallish airforce, but they do have Tornado IDS, an aircraft far superior to anything Spain has.

And i don't really know that one or two F-100's could protect the Spanish flat top, cause Harriers/Tornado's can get really close before they are detected coming over the electronic horizon on the deck.

Probably 35-40 miles i'd bet. Italy's OTOMAT Mk2 antiship missile easily has that kind of range.

[Bill]

"1.) You got to be kidding! The F100 has a phased array radar(the best of it's kind in the world). Where the De La Penne Destroyers have a rotating radar. "

Actually, that would be the SAMPSON radar of the UK Type 45. It has no peer in the world at this time, and niether does the Aster 15/30 SAM.

[Bill]

Oh, i'll say one other thing for Italy's ships.

They have lots and lots of guns. Some of them have as many as 5 mounts of 5" or 76mm. The OTO Melara 76mm Super Rapid is a pretty good AA system(i've been told).

[Praxus]

Actually, that would be the SAMPSON radar of the UK Type 45. It has no peer in the world at this time, and niether does the Aster 15/30 SAM.

How is Aster 15/30 better then the ESSM?

With the Aster 15/30 you can automaticly empty the entire magizine of missiles on incoming missiles but can't you do that with ESSM?

The SAMPSON radar has to rotate to see 360 degrees how is it supperior to AEGIS radar?

And i don't really know that one or two F-100's could protect the Spanish flat top, cause Harriers/Tornado's can get really close before they are detected coming over the electronic horizon on the deck.

Then it will shoot down the incoming missiles with SM-2MR and ESSM. The chances of any missiles getting to it are slim to nill.

This is assuming the Frigates are protecting the Carrier which may or may not be the case.